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Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.)

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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#61 » by Severn Hoos » Wed Oct 28, 2009 3:53 pm

doclinkin wrote:Popcornmachine game flow is up. Link.

Interesting to see both coaches testing each other out in the 2nd quarter. Seeing who's got the hot hand, who defends who. With Foye hot and the Mavs going small much of the time Flip was able to keep him out there to stick those open shots. Nice to make the opponent pay for the strategy of doubling Gil, that's gonna free him up a ton.

I liked the Big Front Small Back line, we went +8 with:

No Frills Gil
Foye ("who's 'Roy'?")
Mike Millions
Seven Day Dray
Big Wood.

I loved Flip's pacing on time-outs. One for the record books, Flip's opening day wins are 11-2 for his career, exceeded only by Pop at 11-1. Not too shabby.


Thanks for the link, doc. Gotta love the popcorn machine!

I love that lineup too. With Haywood & Blatche back there, it eliminates some of the ways that the opponent might try to take advantage of the "small" backcourt of Arenas & Foye.

One thing that screams from the gameflow, however, is that the WIz did a really poor job of closing out quarters. Ended the 1st with a -2 stint, the 2nd with a -4, and the 3rd with a -5. Hopefully that's an anomaly and not the beginning of a pattern. But really, if that's all I have to complain about, then we'll be OK.
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#62 » by dobrojim » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:20 pm

Severn Hoos wrote:
doclinkin wrote:Popcornmachine game flow is up. Link.

Interesting to see both coaches testing each other out in the 2nd quarter. Seeing who's got the hot hand, who defends who. With Foye hot and the Mavs going small much of the time Flip was able to keep him out there to stick those open shots. Nice to make the opponent pay for the strategy of doubling Gil, that's gonna free him up a ton.

I liked the Big Front Small Back line, we went +8 with:

No Frills Gil
Foye ("who's 'Roy'?")
Mike Millions
Seven Day Dray
Big Wood.

I loved Flip's pacing on time-outs. One for the record books, Flip's opening day wins are 11-2 for his career, exceeded only by Pop at 11-1. Not too shabby.


Thanks for the link, doc. Gotta love the popcorn machine!

I love that lineup too. With Haywood & Blatche back there, it eliminates some of the ways that the opponent might try to take advantage of the "small" backcourt of Arenas & Foye.

One thing that screams from the gameflow, however, is that the WIz did a really poor job of closing out quarters. Ended the 1st with a -2 stint, the 2nd with a -4, and the 3rd with a -5. Hopefully that's an anomaly and not the beginning of a pattern. But really, if that's all I have to complain about, then we'll be OK.


true but the real take home I thought was the point several made in the game thread,
we responded to each run they made with a run of our own. Great coaching. Evidence
of that in how we did following timeouts that we called. Seems like everything Flip did
was a level above what EJ would have done.
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#63 » by LyricalRico » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:23 pm

dobrojim wrote:true but the real take home I thought was the point several made in the game thread,
we responded to each run they made with a run of our own. Great coaching. Evidence
of that in how we did following timeouts that we called. Seems like everything Flip did
was a level above what EJ would have done.


:nod:

Yay for coaching!

:clap:
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#64 » by dobrojim » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:27 pm

best offseason ever!
A lot of what we call 'thought' is just mental activity

When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression

Those who are convinced of absurdities, can be convinced to commit atrocities
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#65 » by pancakes3 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:30 pm

actually it looks like the net scoring came and went with Foye
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#66 » by closg00 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:43 pm

Show your face Zard : :D
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#67 » by gesa2 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:19 pm

My favorite thing about how Flip managed the game was that he didn't overreact to the moves Carlisle made. We probably saw more of Gil with Foye because of their small guards, but there were times when Dallas went really small, with Gooden or Nowitzki as center, and we stayed with the bigs we had. There was at least a few minutes in the third quarter when 'Wood was guarding Nowitzki. With Eddie, we would have gone small too, and allowed Carlisle to basically determine who played for us. Eventually we were getting rebounds and driving to the hole on offense w/o fear, and Carlisle had to go bigger again. Way to dictate the game to our strengths!
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#68 » by nate33 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:12 pm

gesa2 wrote:My favorite thing about how Flip managed the game was that he didn't overreact to the moves Carlisle made. We probably saw more of Gil with Foye because of their small guards, but there were times when Dallas went really small, with Gooden or Nowitzki as center, and we stayed with the bigs we had. There was at least a few minutes in the third quarter when 'Wood was guarding Nowitzki. With Eddie, we would have gone small too, and allowed Carlisle to basically determine who played for us. Eventually we were getting rebounds and driving to the hole on offense w/o fear, and Carlisle had to go bigger again. Way to dictate the game to our strengths!

Excellent point. I hated the way EJ let other teams dictate the matchups. Screw that! If they go small, make em pay by pounding it down low and hitting the glass.
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#69 » by DCZards » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:17 pm

closg00 wrote:Show your face Zard : :D


U lookin' for me, closg00?

Well, I'm here enjoying last night's victory like the rest of the folks on this board...and watching my boy RF respond to his doubters. 1-0....sweet, huh.
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#70 » by long suffrin' boulez fan » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:41 pm

doclinkin wrote: Randy Foye attacks the lane and is a Gil mimic on offense.


Could we be seeing the start of a Gil/LH kind of pairing? I always thought Hughes' value to the Wiz couldn't be evaluated well in a vacuum. Hughes made Gil better by bringing the ball up court at times, taking on the lead scoring role at times, hitting the big shot at times... so that Gil didn't have to do it all each possession and so that he could come at teams from different angles.

This is the first time since Hughes left (for that utter wasteland that is Cleveland... Cavs suck) that Gil has had a back court mate with all around skills.

It's just been one game, but it is hard not to like what you see.
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#71 » by fishercob » Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:51 pm

long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
doclinkin wrote: Randy Foye attacks the lane and is a Gil mimic on offense.


Could we be seeing the start of a Gil/LH kind of pairing? I always thought Hughes' value to the Wiz couldn't be evaluated well in a vacuum. Hughes made Gil better by bringing the ball up court at times, taking on the lead scoring role at times, hitting the big shot at times... so that Gil didn't have to do it all each possession and so that he could come at teams from different angles.

This is the first time since Hughes left (for that utter wasteland that is Cleveland... Cavs suck) that Gil has had a back court mate with all around skills.

It's just been one game, but it is hard not to like what you see.


I had a similar thought about the Hughes comparison. While Foye doesn't have his length or get the steals LH did (not a bad thing) he's certainly the best scorer and shooter next to Gil in a while. Flip's system treats guards differently than EJ does, so maybe the comparison isn't as apt, but as I said, I thought the same thing.

My other thought on Foye was something that brought me back to the Mike James deal. When I spoke with someone reasonably close to the organization last year, they told me that they made that deal b/c they liked Crit, it was contract neutral, and they hoped that with a change in scenery James could revert to form as sort of a "Gil lite." Obviously that last piece didn't happen with James, but it seems to be a lot of what they have in Foye. He's obviously not a pure point (remember thought that FLip has a way of making those guys blossom), but his ability to handle, penetrate, finish and shoot from deep does evoke a poor (not homeless) man's Gilbert. Plus, he seems to love being clutch, shining in big moments, etc.

Nice.
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#72 » by LyricalRico » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:08 pm

closg00 wrote:Show your face Zard : :D


:rofl:
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#73 » by Zerocious » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:09 pm

LyricalRico wrote:
closg00 wrote:Show your face Zard : :D


:rofl:


am i missing something?
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#74 » by closg00 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:15 pm

Zerocious wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:
closg00 wrote:Show your face Zard : :D


:rofl:


am i missing something?


Poster DCZard was Eddie Jordan's biggest defender, he defended him no-matter what til the bitter end. Some suspect DCZard to be related to EJ because of how irrational he was when it came to defending EJ.
Good guy in every other respect :)
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#75 » by Zerocious » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:20 pm

lol
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#76 » by go'stags » Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:28 pm

I missed most of the first quarter, but saw pretty much the rest of the game.

I dont think Flip ran any of his zone defenses that we have heard so much about. We had a very good defensive game just playing straight up man to man. And its not like they were just missing shots, I saw actual solid defense out there.

I'm pretty anxious to see those zones used this year, as a change of pace and a different look. I think they can be a wonderful tool when used correctly, which I have confidence Flip will do.
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#77 » by doclinkin » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:31 pm

long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
doclinkin wrote: Randy Foye attacks the lane and is a Gil mimic on offense.


Could we be seeing the start of a Gil/LH kind of pairing? I always thought Hughes' value to the Wiz couldn't be evaluated well in a vacuum. Hughes made Gil better by bringing the ball up court at times, taking on the lead scoring role at times, hitting the big shot at times... so that Gil didn't have to do it all each possession and so that he could come at teams from different angles.

This is the first time since Hughes left (for that utter wasteland that is Cleveland... Cavs suck) that Gil has had a back court mate with all around skills.

It's just been one game, but it is hard not to like what you see.


Gil agrees:
"Randy brings that Larry Hughes element where we can both play the one or two depending on who's hot and who's not," said Arenas, who has sorely missed playing alongside another playmaker and scorer like Hughes. "I work one side of the floor, he works the other."


I see it as a function of the Gil double team. If a team tries to load up on Gil, it's handy to have a guy who can drive it up court and confuse the opponent guessing which one to call the Point.

Not sure I'd call Foye a playmaker, but he's a far better longball sniper than Hughes ever was. Larry was better at the drive and dish, or collecting trips to the stripe. In that respect though it could be that Foye is the better fit, potentially less vulnerable to injuries in the paint (since he has the option to stay in jumper range) and his outside shooting keeps teams honest, prevents them from simply packing it in.

As a steady diet it's a solvable alignment, but It's a nice option to have, to trade off between Milller/Foye/Caron depending on who's hot on which team. Until Gil can shoot from the horizon again he's going to see players queuing up to stop him like the whole team bus unloaded in front of him, it's nice to have someone else racing up court on the other side and players wide open readyu to hit whatever shot the defense gives them.


That to me was the most hopeful sign: most of Dray's shots were wide open shots he took with no extra dribble or hesitation before the defense reacted. I liked the one-two pass where he kicked to DSteve then got it back and hit the J. In most cases the shots taken were the best available, especially in that 60% fg 2nd Quarter. The team made smart passes, good reads, hit the simple shot not the showboat acrobatic one. That's what kept the squad pulling away when the Mavs kept closing.

That and the defense. Caron pestering Marion to a subpar night. DSteve forcing a whistle on JKidd with a screen-flop. Oberto & Dray both bothering Dirk to a poor percentage game. Tertiary players like Goden unable to find room to do much. Brendan smothering Dampier.

We've been giving up a ton of free throws, true, but that's an additional side benefit of depth: more fouls to give. Nice to see Dray able to stay in the game. Good conditioning means he doesn't have to foul to check himself out of the game and get a drink of water.

Some good signs here.
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#78 » by doclinkin » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:37 pm

Still a little concerned about Caron's lesser role, but Marion was playing him pretty tough. Caron did call his own number a few times trying to get in the flow and give the business to Matrix. But he broke the offense a few times trying to force it. I hope Flip develops a few sets to get him loose since his skillset isn't ideal for what Flip generally runs for the wing. No doubt he'll find a wrinkle or two.

The concern for me is that some of Caron's 5 assists or whatnot may simply slide over to Gil (for an even-up net, or possible overall loss) instead of taking advantage of Caron's court presence and versatility at the position. Yes improved defense is nice from the spot, but Caron ought not to just be a TPrince type role player. Unearth those Latrell plays Flipper.
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#79 » by go'stags » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:53 pm

Doc, I think Caron is going to get quite a few assists in transition when the ball is pushed ahead to him. He has always been very good in those spots. Last night he hit Dray with a sweet pass, though Dray didn't convert right away. But I agree, I'd love to see Caron put in a position to make plays, not just for himself, but for others as well. My guess is we will, especially when he gets completely comfortable with everyone and within the offense, and especially when Jamison gets back.

Tho with the influx of good passers with Gil, MM, Oberto, improved Blatche, having Caron as a cutter and running the floor is not a bad thing. He missed a lot of closer shots last night, but he is usually pretty reliable once he gets to the rim.

Lots of options on this team.
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Re: Official Armchair Coaching thread (Pt 2.) 

Post#80 » by pancakes3 » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:58 am

plus with him as less of a focus in the offense frees up calories to burn on defense.

'wood looked good early on but was gassed towards the end. he was probably too excited that he didn't pace himself. plus he was involved a lot more in the offense than before where he basically camped for O-boards. hopefully this will resolve itslef in 2-3 weeks.

as for foye, i'm hesitant to call him hibachi-lite. he's not an alpha scorer. he's not even a scorer on par with prime LH. i see him as a rich man's stevenson. good on-the-ball defender (for smallish guards) with a reliable outside shot. Mason with handles? Dixon with bulk? whatever he is, he's a great compliment for Gil since the two are tweeners of a different sort. Gil's a big point guard with scoring instincts. Foye's an undersized SG who can handle the ball. Put them together and you've got a solid pairing.

Miller and Oberto are perfect bench players. talented enough to start minus the fact that they rack up fouls. that's fine. that's just what bench players are supposed to do - play well enough to abuse the opposing team's 2nd unit, or at least maintain a solid lead. who cares if they're 4 fouls every game? Butler, Blatche/Jamison are the ones who will close the game anyway.
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