Your franchise has no pride

[montestewart]

Four pages of looking like an ignorant fool, mission accomplished?

One only becomes a fool when one goes against what he believes to be right.

Is that another one of them Einstein quotes?

There's nothing like certainty to sooth the indignity of inaccuracy.

Fenwick Chamberton once said, "Like lambs to the slaughter, there goes my dinner." Words to live by.

[Ed Wood]

Four pages of looking like an ignorant fool, mission accomplished?

One only becomes a fool when one goes against what he believes to be right.

Merriam-webster.com says a fool is "a person lacking in judgement or prudence." Now I don't know what vegetables have to do with the issue but... okay yeah, not actually going to write another one of those. Anyway, you continue to be silly; somebody had better call Lawrence Kohlberg because we have a Martin Luther King on our hands here.

[chubby_1_kenobi]

Four pages of looking like an ignorant fool, mission accomplished?

One only becomes a fool when one goes against what he believes to be right.

Is that another one of them Einstein quotes?

There's nothing like certainty to sooth the indignity of inaccuracy.

Fenwick Chamberton once said, "Like lambs to the slaughter, there goes my dinner." Words to live by.

The only inaccuracy I am guilty of is the one I've stated before; I overestimated the rivalry between the Cavs and the Wiz.

[Illuminaire]

One only becomes a fool when one goes against what he believes to be right.

Truly, what we believe matters less than if we really, really believe it - especially if it flies in the face of all evidence and reason. Chubby one, you have opened my eyes to this truth in a way Disney channel sitcoms never could.

In less green text, when I read this thread, my thoughts immediately go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS_d0Ayjw4o

[verbal8]

All of you have such animosity towards Lakers franchise when there's actually nothing between them and the Wizards yet when it comes to the Cavaliers, everyone here is being so nonchalant about handing them Jamison for low draft pick.

How does keeping an aging Jamison help the Wizards? Plus the financial aspect of getting under the luxury tax($7 million(2.5 in tax, ~500K in salary and 4 million in tax payout) and saving $1 million buying out Z. That could probably buy a couple of low 1st and a 2nd round pick.

What other alternatives for trading Jamison did the Wizards have? I could see the merits of arguing that the Dallas trade was not the best deal possible, but I think the Cavs deal was the only deal possible for Jamison.

[dobrojim]

Four pages of looking like an ignorant fool, mission accomplished?

One only becomes a fool when one goes against what he believes to be right.

I guess Dubya was never a fool then.

obligatory bb comment -

I don't mind the lakers so much actually. I /really/ liked them back
in the Magic/Kareem/Worthy days. They were a fun team to watch
and root for, partly so I could root against Bird, McHale and Sir Walk-a-lot (Parrish).

But I cannot stomach rooting for the piece of meat (rapist) now on
the cover of GQ etc. So while I have nothing especially against the
rest of the team, I don't want them to win.

And I have a particular dislike for bandwagoneers who change
preferences with the fortunes of the team. Go Nugs, Go Mavs!

[montestewart]

The only inaccuracy I am guilty of is the one I've stated before; I overestimated the rivalry between the Cavs and the Wiz.

Well, there you go (thanks Ronnie), there's another inaccuracy, flying fatally into the protective sun block of certainty.

PS: Let's talk about your favorite team.

[chubby_1_kenobi]

One only becomes a fool when one goes against what he believes to be right.

Truly, what we believe matters less than if we really, really believe it - especially if it flies in the face of all evidence and reason. Chubby one, you have opened my eyes to this truth in a way Disney channel sitcoms never could.

In less green text, when I read this thread, my thoughts immediately go here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS_d0Ayjw4o

That's because no evidence and reason can define what rivalry or pride is. What I'm talking about is purely intangible stuff.
Face it, sports are played because sometimes things go against evidence and reason. That's what makes it so appealing.
So when it comes to the spirit of the game (or in this case, the spirit of the rivalry) what the Wizards brass had done for the Cavaliers went totally over my head.

In fact, the first time I heard Jamison was traded to the Cavs from my co-worker, my first response was "Yeah, and pigs fly". Then couple days later, I read Ilgauskas are being waived so he can return to Cleveland and here we are.

[dobrojim]

The only inaccuracy I am guilty of is the one I've stated before; I overestimated the rivalry between the Cavs and the Wiz.

You stated Howard wasn't drafted

But you're really missing the boat on CLE and us anyway - we don't like the chosen
one (understatement)

AFAIK, the site wasn't created by someone here, but we sure do resonate with
it.

http://ihatelebronjames.com/

[Ed Wood]

Here we are indeed. How would you judge the humor in the thread five pages in Chubby? Have the jokes been lame? Do you judge our laughs to be cynical? I mean my laugh kinda sounds cynical all the time anyway even when its not so maybe don't listen to it. This is important, I want to know that we're being good hosts and that you like our laughs.

[chubby_1_kenobi]

All of you have such animosity towards Lakers franchise when there's actually nothing between them and the Wizards yet when it comes to the Cavaliers, everyone here is being so nonchalant about handing them Jamison for low draft pick.

How does keeping an aging Jamison help the Wizards? Plus the financial aspect of getting under the luxury tax($7 million(2.5 in tax, ~500K in salary and 4 million in tax payout) and saving $1 million buying out Z. That could probably buy a couple of low 1st and a 2nd round pick.

What other alternatives for trading Jamison did the Wizards have? I could see the merits of arguing that the Dallas trade was not the best deal possible, but I think the Cavs deal was the only deal possible for Jamison.

The Dallas deal was lopsided but I understand why it happened. Salary dump plain and simple. I have no problem with it.

The Cleveland deal was also good. Salary dump plus draft pick. Rebuilding stage is on. Fine, understandable.

At this point, the Wizards have helped Cleveland enough.

Then the Ilgauskas bullcrap happened. Yes, financially your owner saved 1 million dollar and managed to place themselves in Cleveland's good grace. I understand that completely but don't sit there and tell me that this particular debacle is not a complete statement of defeat. This is what I have problems with. There's no attempt whatsoever to keep the rivalry alive and burning even though in my opinion was one of the most interesting subplot that happened for any eastern conference team since MJ retired.

[Ed Wood]

Yeah, it's pretty hard to top subplots like: "Which is more noxious, M.J.'s narcissistic stat stuffing on the court or his dogged determination to be a big moron in every personnel decision?"

[montestewart]

^
How closely do you follow basketball? The potential for a Jamison to the Cavs transaction has been reported for a long time. Jamison's an aging, fairly one-dimensional player on a huge contract, going to a team making a desperate last shot to win the title before its star jumps ship. Ilgauskas is an aging and declining player, and many if not most (here and elsewhere) assumed he would be bought out as well. How did this all get by you? Did you know that Gilbert Arenas was suspended?

Aging players do not fit into our rebuilding plan. We will get better, very soon, and when we do, the Cavs will be waiting, or will they? If Lebron leaves, the rivalry is dead. Kennedy had Khrushchev, Sherlock Holmes had Professor Moriarty, Maxwell Smart had The Craw ("not 'Craw,' 'Craw'); a great hero needs a great villian. We need our arch-nemesis in order to exist, and without Lebron, they are nothing. Don’t you see, Mr. Mason, we had to help them win the championship. We had to.

[chubby_1_kenobi]

Here we are indeed. How would you judge the humor in the thread five pages in Chubby? Have the jokes been lame? Do you judge our laughs to be cynical? I mean my laugh kinda sounds cynical all the time anyway even when its not so maybe don't listen to it. This is important, I want to know that we're being good hosts and that you like our laughs.

After a few attempts to derail the thread, I like what I have been reading. Sure, I tick off the posters here. Who wouldn't after a title like that? but I do think that it was necessary. Be it Lakers fans, Celtics fans, Magic fans or whoever, I said what I said out of disgusts of your front office not the Wizard fans.

[chubby_1_kenobi]

^
How closely do you follow basketball? The potential for a Jamison to the Cavs transaction has been reported for a long time. Jamison's an aging, fairly one-dimensional player on a huge contract, going to a team making a desperate last shot to win the title before its star jumps ship. Ilgauskas is an aging and declining player, and many if not most (here and elsewhere) assumed he would be bought out as well. How did this all get by you? Did you know that Gilbert Arenas was suspended?

Aging players do not fit into our rebuilding plan. We will get better, very soon, and when we do, the Cavs will be waiting, or will they? If Lebron leaves, the rivalry is dead. Kennedy had Khrushchev, Sherlock Holmes had Professor Moriarty, Maxwell Smart had The Craw ("not 'Craw,' 'Craw'); a great hero needs a great villian. We need our arch-nemesis in order to exist, and without Lebron, they are nothing. Don’t you see, Mr. Mason, we had to help them win the championship. We had to.

I have no problem with the Jamison deal if your FO had kept Ilgauskas.
What the worse thing that could happen? He became disgruntled? So, what? Send his arse home and let him rot there.
And if that does not happen, the Wizards could still reap the benefit of a veteran true center in terms of mentoring their young talent.
You risk pissing the Cavaliers off but guess what? YOU WERE RIVALS!!!

[montestewart]

^
How closely do you follow basketball? The potential for a Jamison to the Cavs transaction has been reported for a long time. Jamison's an aging, fairly one-dimensional player on a huge contract, going to a team making a desperate last shot to win the title before its star jumps ship. Ilgauskas is an aging and declining player, and many if not most (here and elsewhere) assumed he would be bought out as well. How did this all get by you? Did you know that Gilbert Arenas was suspended?

Aging players do not fit into our rebuilding plan. We will get better, very soon, and when we do, the Cavs will be waiting, or will they? If Lebron leaves, the rivalry is dead. Kennedy had Khrushchev, Sherlock Holmes had Professor Moriarty, Maxwell Smart had The Craw ("not 'Craw,' 'Craw'); a great hero needs a great villian. We need our arch-nemesis in order to exist, and without Lebron, they are nothing. Don’t you see, Mr. Mason, we had to help them win the championship. We had to.

I have no problem with the Jamison deal if your FO had kept Ilgauskas.
What the worse thing that could happen? He became disgruntled? So, what? Send his arse home and let him rot there.
And if that does not happen, the Wizards could still reap the benefit of a veteran true center in terms of mentoring their young talent.
You risk pissing the Cavaliers off but guess what? YOU WERE RIVALS!!!

Maybe you have no problem with the Jamison deal, but I thought you said "In fact, the first time I heard Jamison was traded to the Cavs from my co-worker, my first response was 'Yeah, and pigs fly'." Maybe someone else said that. That’s right, you said our franchise had no pride.

No one here cares about pissing off the Cavs or Ilgauskas per se (not that I have anything personal against Ilgauskas), but if there was a deal in place and the Wizards went back on their word, that could shape perceptions among players, agents, and other GMs. That could undermine future success. Our franchise is not getting seventy virgins for taking the Cavs down with us.

There are good arguments for keeping Ilguaskas, and if you actually read this board, you would have heard them best articulated here. There are good arguments for buying him out. You keep rephrasing your original argument without answering or even acknowledging any counterpoints, much less the fancee frazings. I think Ed Wood had the clearest explanation. I can't do it any better. I do appreciate your presence here (even if I said “Didn’t you say something about leaving?”) because this is almost as much fun as the Crabaliers thread.

[Ed Wood]

[montestewart]

^
Thank you. That's the simplest explanation of the federal budget I've ever seen.

[dobrojim]

the thing Chubby seems unable to comprehend is that by blowing up
the team and having this 'firesale', we actually got better. And the
'prideless fans' have noticed. Hard to fathom, but true.

We had indeed gotten 'stale'.

[montestewart]

the thing Chubby seems unable to comprehend is that by blowing up
the team and having this 'firesale', we actually got better. And the
'prideless fans' have noticed. Hard to fathom, but true.

We had indeed gotten 'stale'.

I'm not even sure that's it. The Chubs may comprehend claims of improvement on the part of the Wizards, but feels any improvement, no matter how great, is far more than fully negated by any possible perceived appearance of benefit to a RIVAL!

We should just stay bad, rather than risk helping our RIVAL! Then we only help them 3-4 times a year, when we play them.