Darius Miles & the CBA

[Three34]

Darius Miles - bringing people together since the year 2000.

[Dunkenstein]

Darius Miles - bringing people together since the year 2000.

ROFLOL

[Dekko1]

Perhaps you would like to discuss the facts of the league's insurance and the cap implications instead of just insulting me again? Merely a suggestion...

More insults instead of honest discussion found in his box of chocolates

Guess not...

[Dekko1]

PS - Be sure and tell your client Darius "hi"

As a human I wish Miles all the best on his journey forward and his wish to play BBall...as a blazer fan I hope he does not find an NBA gig and they keep the 9 mil extra cap space next summer... so if I was his agent I would say "the money is great in Europe Darius"...

[FGump]

You're right. I'm a dumbass, but I love me some "me." I just have to use my pompous overbearing demeanor and demand others treat my own weakly supported predictions as inevitable and indisputable fact.

Well said. You've obviously mastered the axiom, "Know thyself."

[Dekko1]

"Know thyself."

A little territorial here are we?

There are three kinds of men.
The one that learns by reading.
The few who learn by observation.
The rest of them have to pee on the
electric fence for themselves.
Will Rogers

[Three34]

You two are so CUTE together! :hugs:

[Dekko1]

You two are so CUTE together! :hugs:

Aimed at Frank Layden who was trying to get ejected from an ugly game by cussing at the refs:

“I know what you’re trying to do, Frank, but if I’ve got to stay
out here and watch this (manure), so do you”. Earl Strom

[FGump]

Somebody wake me when skippy says something even remotely relevant, accurate, informative or entertaining. It's easier just sleeping through his filibluster [sic].

[Dekko1]

Miles if he did get a gig $1,141,838 is the vets minimum if I have his years right?
So team pay 2nd year rate which is $797,581 and so the league would pay $344,257

Miles is suspended 10 games and at 1/90 per game $126,870 for the 10 games that normally goes to the NBA/NBPA charity fund.


So on that stuff another question...Does the team of a suspended minimum player still pay the proportional amount, in this case $88,620 for the 10 games and if so does the league also still pay into the charity pot?

And...Since preseason games count the same for salary why are suspensions not served there? Punish the team? Equal justice with regular season offenses? Prestige?

[killbuckner]

Seriously... you need an answer for why being suspended for preseason games might not be quite the same as being suspended for a game that counts?

[Dekko1]

Seriously... you need an answer for why being suspended for preseason games might not be quite the same as being suspended for a game that counts?

I understand the difference of impact and that it sounds like a dumb question... just trying to define the leagues purpose where it impacts the team as opposed to the player. On the business end of the contracts the salary is divided by 90 instead of 82 specifically for suspensions as well as other purposes.
So you go with the prestige part for the player with no intention toward the team?
My take might lean to it is to equal out the punishment for all offenses for all suspensions, but the league has hardly been known for 'equal justice".

[Wizenheimer]

Seriously... you need an answer for why being suspended for preseason games might not be quite the same as being suspended for a game that counts?

I understand the difference of impact and that it sounds like a dumb question... just trying to define the leagues purpose where it impacts the team as opposed to the player. On the business end of the contracts the salary is divided by 90 instead of 82 specifically for suspensions as well as other purposes.
So you go with the prestige part for the player with no intention toward the team?
My take might lean to it is to equal out the punishment for all offenses for all suspensions, but the league has hardly been known for 'equal justice".

I didn't realize the divisor was 90 instead of 82. Is 90 a constant because don't some teams play more exhibition games then others?

maybe that's wrong, I guess I've never paid attention to the pre-season records.

Anyway, while I'm not a big Miles fan, I don't wish him any ill in what he's trying to do. I hope he doesn't irreparably harm his knee from some misguided attempt at a comeback though.

Miles from 3 years ago on this blazers team would have been a pretty big upgrade over what they have now. A frontline of Oden, Aldridge, and the before-injury Miles, with Outlaw, Pryzbilla and Frye off the bench would have been the best frontline in the league.

[Dekko1]

I didn't realize the divisor was 90 instead of 82. Is 90 a constant because don't some teams play more exhibition games then others?

maybe that's wrong, I guess I've never paid attention to the pre-season records.

Not sure if any teams play less than the typical 8... might be... especially with the ones playing overseas. I was using 1/90 because it is the amount listed in Larry's FAQ
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#93
and how I remember it too, but the CBA now says 1/110 of their base compensation for suspension.

http://nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-VI.php
(or, in the case of a suspension, shall be reduced) by 1/110th of the player’s Base Compensation for each missed Exhibition, Regular Season or Playoff game.

I emailed larry.

Which would have the team's share of miles at 72.5K instead of 88.6K for 10 games of paying him not to play.

Anyway, while I'm not a big Miles fan, I don't wish him any ill in what he's trying to do. I hope he doesn't irreparably harm his knee from some misguided attempt at a comeback though.

Miles from 3 years ago on this blazers team would have been a pretty big upgrade over what they have now. A frontline of Oden, Aldridge, and the before-injury Miles, with Outlaw, Pryzbilla and Frye off the bench would have been the best frontline in the league.

If he could play like he did that first half of a season in Portland. Otherwise I am not so sure Trout is not pretty close now.

Even so... Likely Lakers fans would quibble for Bynum, Gasol and Odom next season on the best frontline.

[LarryCoon]

Not sure if any teams play less than the typical 8... might be... especially with the ones playing overseas. I was using 1/90 because it is the amount listed in Larry's FAQ
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#93
and how I remember it too, but the CBA now says 1/110 of their base compensation for suspension.

http://nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-VI.php
(or, in the case of a suspension, shall be reduced) by 1/110th of the player’s Base Compensation for each missed Exhibition, Regular Season or Playoff game.

I emailed larry.

Hmm, which address did you use? Didn't see one at either of my current addresses.

Thanks for noticing that -- we found something else that had changed (removed actually, which made it that much harder to notice) just recently, and I updated my FAQ accordingly -- only to get into an argument about it with a team president. I had to talk to the league to get the real story -- it turns out I was wrong about it, and now need to add an even longer explanation to my FAQ.

Which is a long winded way of saying that I'll look into it.

Even so... Likely Lakers fans would quibble for Bynum, Gasol and Odom next season on the best frontline.

Moi?

Actually I have Odom issues, and would like to see someone who can guard threes on the wing more effectively and shoot from outside more consistently.

[Dekko1]

I was using 1/90 because it is the amount listed in Larry's FAQ
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#93
and how I remember it too, but the CBA now says 1/110 of their base compensation for suspension.

http://nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-VI.php
(or, in the case of a suspension, shall be reduced) by 1/110th of the player’s Base Compensation for each missed Exhibition, Regular Season or Playoff game.

I emailed larry.

Hmm, which address did you use? Didn't see one at either of my current addresses.

The same lcoon@uci one that I sent the other question you did answer.

Thanks for noticing that -- we found something else that had changed (removed actually, which made it that much harder to notice) just recently, and I updated my FAQ accordingly -- only to get into an argument about it with a team president. I had to talk to the league to get the real story -- it turns out I was wrong about it, and now need to add an even longer explanation to my FAQ.

Which is a long winded way of saying that I'll look into it.

Even so... Likely Lakers fans would quibble for Bynum, Gasol and Odom next season on the best frontline.

Moi?

Actually I have Odom issues, and would like to see someone who can guard threes on the wing more effectively and shoot from outside more consistently.

Since it is between a front line that has not yet played together vs one that never will and includes a center yet to play one nba game hard to argue it... so I declare we win because you shall never prove otherwise!
Will be fun watching the actual matchup this season and rumor has it the first taste will be on opening night.

[Dunkenstein]

For what it's worth, I've heard the "Miles will return" stories are nice filler for a slow summer sports day, but he's nowhere near being able to actually play at an NBA level, in large part due to that knee. It didn't mysteriously heal. It just feels better because of the time off.

The story says he's not quite well but he's 50% well, or 80% well, or something. The problem is, the percentage is just words, and even if we could put it in a machine to measure and knew he is 80% for example, the fact he is competing with 100% healthy bodies means he won't be competitive. He lacks explosion and lateral movement. You can't play in the NBA without those.

Yeah, you're right. No NBA GM would ever consider giving him even a non-guaranteed contract.

[FGump]

Yeah, you're right. No NBA GM would ever consider giving him even a non-guaranteed contract.

Thanks, Dunk for bringing this back up. That's obviously settled fact now - as I kept saying, the idea he was "impressive" was obvious PR smoke being fueled by his agent. We now know that to be the case, since he couldn't even score any guaranteed money whatsoever.

But let's also repeat the rest of what I kept saying ...

As i have said multiple times, let's wait and see what REALLY happens. It's better to let the actions of the teams sift fact from hype for us, and yep you are just strewing guesses out there that I think have no touch with reality and buy into hype, but I'm just making my own logical guess [too] as I see it.

We'll see what happens.

So again, let's wait and see what happens, and then we'll know whether he has anything or not, rather than buying PR hype and engaging in idle debate when none of us have even seen his knee or his workouts.

So to this point, we know
...he doesn't have enough to get any guarantee.
...but, he has shown enough to get an invite to TC and a make-good deal.
...that means he'as still very iffy, but at least someone wanted a longer look up close subjected to the rigors of competition and an option on his services

Hopefully he'll have enough to screw Portland's cap for a couple of years. But right now we can only guess.

[Dekko1]

Yeah, you're right. No NBA GM would ever consider giving him even a non-guaranteed contract.

Thanks, Dunk for bringing this back up. That's obviously settled fact now - as I kept saying, the idea he was "impressive" was obvious PR smoke being fueled by his agent. We now know that to be the case, since he couldn't even score any guaranteed money whatsoever.

The 'impressive' quote was background from a Boston coach for a news report. It was impressive enough to to get him a second workout and a chance to play his way onto the league's current best team.

[trolling]

As i have said multiple times, let's wait and see what REALLY happens..So again, let's wait and see what happens, So again, let's wait and see what happens,

Too bad we are so bad at following your instructions, would not want to discuss cap implications on the CAP board that apply no matter what ends up as Miles result...

So to this point, we know
...he doesn't have enough to get any guarantee.

Dekko1 wrote: "At minimum salary it is not a huge risk. Some team at worst could offer him a non-guaranteed contract."

FGump Wrote:"At minimum salary it is not a huge risk""????????? That's baloney."

and then we'll know whether he has anything or not, rather than buying PR hype and engaging in idle debate when none of us have even seen his knee or his workouts.

But you said without seeing him or his knees that "There are 100's of D-league kids who can outplay him now, and who have way more upside".

There are about 200 D League players total......what is wrong with Ainge?

[/trolling]

But miles is not being hyped he is being tested, Ainge said he has 2 months. We know what that means. He gets a chance to play onto the team, he is still camp fodder.
But if Ainge considered signing him for the regular season to be a huge risk he could easily have given the spot to someone else.

Bu the Cap questions remain no matter what happens in this case.

Like Larry I smell a rule change.
Catch 22 for the team, have to waive a player to get cap relief and lose all control, if he can play they can not keep rights to him and get screwed if he does. Fixes one loophole to make sure it is for real... but then creates a huge penalty for following the rules. Should be the doctor's opinion stands if they play or not? Add more review medically?

Hopefully he'll have enough to screw Portland's cap for a couple of years. But right now we can only guess.

Has to sit out 10 games then play 10 to go back on the blazers cap. Insurance questions perhaps for Portland.

They will be well under the cap anyway and the free agent market next summer does not look like anything to break the bank over.
The following year some extensions will be kicking in but they should be able to stay under the tax line. And it just changes the options, Miles plays his 10th game and KP can look for a trade for LeFoul's ending contract instead of just looking for cap space next year.

The career-ending-Injury process already saved the 9 mil tax last season, the insurance paid 80% of the contract, and so far I have found no one that says they have to pay it back. I wrote Canzano and he said he will check on it when he gets home from China.

[chakdaddy]

I still don't see why the rule should be changed or what's unfair about it, or why it should be considered a loophole.

A team wants to get rid of the player and his salary; if his injury is deemed career-ending they get the relief. If he comes back and plays 10 games for anybody, it clearly means that the previous decision was wrong and it was not career-ending - so the team shouldn't get the relief, since all they did was waive a guy whose contract they wanted to dump.

If Miles comes back and the Blazers didn't lose the cap relief, it would mean the Blazers and their doctors put one over on everyone and were able to dump a salary unfairly. (Not that they were deceitful in the first place, but they got away with one.)

The only unfair thing is that maybe Portland wouldn't have waived him if there was a chance he could come back. (That scenario would be more likely if it were a better player than Miles involved.) But I don't see why the decision to cut ties with a player like that should be without some risk.

I just don't see why, under any circumstance outside of clear funny business intended to screw the Blazer's cap, that a team should be able to reap the benefit of salary cap relief for a career ending injury that turns out to not be career-ending at all. If you changed the rules like you guys are suggesting that's what could easily happen.