Bulls Offered DeMar DeRozan Two-Year Contract

[RealGM Wiretap]

The Chicago Bulls offered veteran forward DeMar DeRozan a two-year contract. The deal was believed to be worth up to $40 million per season.

DeRozan is set to be an unrestricted free agent this summer. He's eligible to sign a three-year contract, either as an extension or in free agency. As DeRozan will be 35 years old next season, signing a deal longer than three seasons would run into the NBA's Over-38 rule.

Bulls VP of Basketball Operations Arturas Karnisovas recently said he knows his team can't simply run back the same roster. But Karnisovas made it clear that Chicago want to keep DeRozan in the fold. For his part, DeRozan said he'd like to return to the Bulls, but that he also wants to win.

DeRozan averaged 24 points, 4.3 rebounds and 5.3 assists per game. He shot 48% from the field and 85% from the free throw line.

Via KC Johnson/NBC Sports Chicago

[Montrosslegend]

40m per season?? For a guy on the decline? Didn’t they learn anything from the Levine contract? That franchise is going nowhere fast.. gotta hope they can build through the draft. It’s a tear down.

[Zeno]

40m per season?? For a guy on the decline? Didn’t they learn anything from the Levine contract? That franchise is going nowhere fast.. gotta hope they can build through the draft. It’s a tear down.

Always click on the link rather than just read the realgm interpretation on what someone else got from a 3rd source. It said that they offered what may have been up to 40 million per season. So it sounds like this was a heavily incentivized contract with perhaps some non-guaranteed aspect in the 2nd year. Just a guess.

[Roy T]

At first I read it was 40 for 2 seasons. That’s a good deal for both sides imo.

40 per season seems too much if he wants to win … something… in Chicago

[dougthonus]

40m per season?? For a guy on the decline? Didn’t they learn anything from the Levine contract? That franchise is going nowhere fast.. gotta hope they can build through the draft. It’s a tear down.

Always click on the link rather than just read the realgm interpretation on what someone else got from a 3rd source. It said that they offered what may have been up to 40 million per season. So it sounds like this was a heavily incentivized contract with perhaps some non-guaranteed aspect in the 2nd year. Just a guess.

The maximum incentives is 15%, so even if you assume they put max incentives in there, it's 34.7M base salary then. There's really not much reason to think there is nonguaranteed money in it. My interpretation is deal is set up for them to overpay DeMar for two seasons to put him on the same timeline as Vuc, Coby, and Ayo, so the books all clear in the same season.

I'd guess that the two seasons are fully guaranteed, and if there are incentives, I highly doubt it would be the full 15% possible, probably more like a couple mil each year.

[Zeno]

40m per season?? For a guy on the decline? Didn’t they learn anything from the Levine contract? That franchise is going nowhere fast.. gotta hope they can build through the draft. It’s a tear down.

Always click on the link rather than just read the realgm interpretation on what someone else got from a 3rd source. It said that they offered what may have been up to 40 million per season. So it sounds like this was a heavily incentivized contract with perhaps some non-guaranteed aspect in the 2nd year. Just a guess.

The maximum incentives is 15%, so even if you assume they put max incentives in there, it's 34.7M base salary then. There's really not much reason to think there is nonguaranteed money in it. My interpretation is deal is set up for them to overpay DeMar for two seasons to put him on the same timeline as Vuc, Coby, and Ayo, so the books all clear in the same season.

I'd guess that the two seasons are fully guaranteed, and if there are incentives, I highly doubt it would be the full 15% possible, probably more like a couple mil each year.

Okay that makes sense, I suppose though I think Demar is crazy to turn that down if that is what was offered. I also think Bulls are crazy to offer that. So I guess I don’t really think this makes sense but I guess you’re right.

[Scalabrine]

At first I read it was 40 for 2 seasons. That’s a good deal for both sides imo.

40 per season seems too much if he wants to win … something… in Chicago

Harrison Barnes, Josh Hart, Dillon Brooks, Kyle Kuzma, Bruce Brown, Cam Johnson all recently signed deals paying between 18-24 million per season. Those are all good players, and fine contracts and Derozan is past his prime, but he's still a more impactful player than those guys.

Khris Middleton, Jrue Holiday, Jerami Grant, Andrew Wiggins (when he signed the extension post finals run) are all getting 28-34 per year and thats where I think Derozan will land.

Theres a chance that he takes less to play on a true contender, but he'd be leaving A LOT of money on the table. Maybe he goes back to the Spurs and becomes Wemby's mentor and number 2. They have money to pay him, plus could be a really good team in the not so distant future.

[dougthonus]

Okay that makes sense, I suppose though I think Demar is crazy to turn that down if that is what was offered. I also think Bulls are crazy to offer that. So I guess I don’t really think this makes sense but I guess you’re right.

I think you are right in both cases:
1: The Bulls shouldn't do this.
2: DeMar should take it.

Maybe the only reason DeMar doesn't take it is that he wants to win and signs somewhere for the TMLE to be on a better team. I'm not going to guess what a guy with his money would do for winning vs money, but I'd sure take the money in his shoes.

As for the Bulls, I think a 2 year deal is better than a 3 year deal even if the price is more per year just to be able to have the option to hit 2 years from now with totally clean books (assuming they can move Zach in a salary dump), but it's certainly not an exciting plan if you are a fan.

However, as a fan, I can say this is totally within the MO of our current front office which has yet to move a meaningful piece they acquired in their four seasons and instead has doubled down on everything they've done and also has a tendency to overpay vs the market.

[Plutonashfan]

Bulls just have to let it go. This isn't going to work. Even if Ball comes back his not going to be like he was before

[elmdawgg69]

The second year is likely a team option. Derozan won’t get a better deal than this in the open market. The best another team can offer is likely two years, $60 million with a team option for the second year.

The Bulls can be legit title contenders if Ball comes back healthy.

[HaydukesRedux]

I disagree, they will be in the mix for a middle seed but I don't see Ball being healthy getting them to a conference final.

The second year is likely a team option. Derozan won’t get a better deal than this in the open market. The best another team can offer is likely two years, $60 million with a team option for the second year.

The Bulls can be legit title contenders if Ball comes back healthy.

[donaldtrump_00]

I personally think artustus is lying. He's definitely bringing back derozan and Zack will soon buy in once lonzo is able to play. They'll all agree to run it back but trade it once they start off bad. There going to do a 20 game and see were we at kinda eye test. I'm telling you now. Lonzo will be the player they all want to play with. Drummond might be gone. There stacked at the guard position but seeing there prone to injury it won't matter at all. The reason they'll definitely run it back is due to the emergence of coby white and ayo. I'm more interested to see how they play alongside lonzo but I do want to see a upgrade at pf. Craig, Drummond, might be off the roster. Javonte green can have his spot back. They need to get phillips on the court . I don't see how this roster can upgrade other then player development

[bball4life]

Okay that makes sense, I suppose though I think Demar is crazy to turn that down if that is what was offered. I also think Bulls are crazy to offer that. So I guess I don’t really think this makes sense but I guess you’re right.

I think you are right in both cases:
1: The Bulls shouldn't do this.
2: DeMar should take it.

Maybe the only reason DeMar doesn't take it is that he wants to win and signs somewhere for the TMLE to be on a better team. I'm not going to guess what a guy with his money would do for winning vs money, but I'd sure take the money in his shoes.

As for the Bulls, I think a 2 year deal is better than a 3 year deal even if the price is more per year just to be able to have the option to hit 2 years from now with totally clean books (assuming they can move Zach in a salary dump), but it's certainly not an exciting plan if you are a fan.

However, as a fan, I can say this is totally within the MO of our current front office which has yet to move a meaningful piece they acquired in their four seasons and instead has doubled down on everything they've done and also has a tendency to overpay vs the market.

I think you are 100% accurate. The Bulls front office has never been able to move on from players they acquired or drafted. Even if you are an amazing drafting team you still need to move your own players to make an actual winning roster. The bulls refuse to do this because I guess it's like admitting you made a mistake? But yeah, this team has ZERO shot to be impactful in the playoffs. Resigning Derozan might just make them good enough to avoid a lottery pick which they desperately need. I feel bad for Bulls fans. This debacle is like a never ending nightmare.

[Pickled Prunes]

Okay that makes sense, I suppose though I think Demar is crazy to turn that down if that is what was offered. I also think Bulls are crazy to offer that. So I guess I don’t really think this makes sense but I guess you’re right.

I think you are right in both cases:
1: The Bulls shouldn't do this.
2: DeMar should take it.

Maybe the only reason DeMar doesn't take it is that he wants to win and signs somewhere for the TMLE to be on a better team. I'm not going to guess what a guy with his money would do for winning vs money, but I'd sure take the money in his shoes.

As for the Bulls, I think a 2 year deal is better than a 3 year deal even if the price is more per year just to be able to have the option to hit 2 years from now with totally clean books (assuming they can move Zach in a salary dump), but it's certainly not an exciting plan if you are a fan.

However, as a fan, I can say this is totally within the MO of our current front office which has yet to move a meaningful piece they acquired in their four seasons and instead has doubled down on everything they've done and also has a tendency to overpay vs the market.

I don't know how I missed this!

I think the Bulls should do this because the East is weak and they want to sell tickets. They aren't winning anything with all their cap tied up in Lonzo (a zero) and LaVine (a minus)... but the East is so bad that they are probably too good to tank seriously.

I don't think that DeMar should do this. He will be sought after. Probably not at the $80/2 price tag... but maybe $90/3? S&T is always an option. He would be a difference maker on a handful of teams. Your suggestion of him taking the TMLE is drastically undervaluing him.

I would personally rather see DeMar in a new city and have the Bulls build around White... but like you, I think that's a decision that DeMar would have to make. CHI seems to have a hard time letting go.

[dougthonus]

I don't know how I missed this!

I think the Bulls should do this because the East is weak and they want to sell tickets. They aren't winning anything with all their cap tied up in Lonzo (a zero) and LaVine (a minus)... but the East is so bad that they are probably too good to tank seriously.

I don't think that DeMar should do this. He will be sought after. Probably not at the $80/2 price tag... but maybe $90/3? S&T is always an option. He would be a difference maker on a handful of teams. Your suggestion of him taking the TMLE is drastically undervaluing him.

I would personally rather see DeMar in a new city and have the Bulls build around White... but like you, I think that's a decision that DeMar would have to make. CHI seems to have a hard time letting go.

They owe their 1st to SA (top 11 protected), and given their cap scenario, their best case scenario is to have a slightly worse team than last year where they finished 9th. Hard to see where they have much upside.

You'd still expect them to be worse than:
Boston
Philly
Milwaukee
New York
Cleveland (even if they sell off Mitchell)
Indiana
Orlando
Miami

Maybe you pass one of those teams if they go in a wildly different direction or have massive injuries, but the Bulls themselves had a net rating that suggests they were far worse than their record this year, and they can't add literally anything and stay under the tax.

Their worst case scenario is exactly what they're targeting:
1: Miss the playoffs as a play-in loser
2: Give #11 to SA

[Pickled Prunes]

I don't know how I missed this!

I think the Bulls should do this because the East is weak and they want to sell tickets. They aren't winning anything with all their cap tied up in Lonzo (a zero) and LaVine (a minus)... but the East is so bad that they are probably too good to tank seriously.

I don't think that DeMar should do this. He will be sought after. Probably not at the $80/2 price tag... but maybe $90/3? S&T is always an option. He would be a difference maker on a handful of teams. Your suggestion of him taking the TMLE is drastically undervaluing him.

I would personally rather see DeMar in a new city and have the Bulls build around White... but like you, I think that's a decision that DeMar would have to make. CHI seems to have a hard time letting go.

They owe their 1st to SA (top 11 protected), and given their cap scenario, their best case scenario is to have a slightly worse team than last year where they finished 9th. Hard to see where they have much upside.

You'd still expect them to be worse than:
Boston
Philly
Milwaukee
New York
Cleveland (even if they sell off Mitchell)
Indiana
Orlando
Miami

Maybe you pass one of those teams if they go in a wildly different direction or have massive injuries, but the Bulls themselves had a net rating that suggests they were far worse than their record this year, and they can't add literally anything and stay under the tax.

Their worst case scenario is exactly what they're targeting:
1: Miss the playoffs as a play-in loser
2: Give #11 to SA

I agree with what you are saying, I just don't think your goals and the goals of the organization line up. I also think the East is so weak that they would need to overtly tank from day-1 to eliminate the possibility of falling below 10 and still have very little shot at a #1 pick. I think selling tickets (and hope) is a bigger priority for them than a single draft pick.

(It is important to note: In general, I am extremely anti-tanking. We start every season with 4-5 teams prioritizing something other than winning and by March 20% of the league is actively trying to lose... it's a blight on the league. I understand why teams do it, but it hasn't proved all that successful yet.)

If I were CHI I would be on the phone with SAS offering this year's #11 in place of next season's top-10 protected. It's a weak draft and they would regain control of all future 1sts.

[dougthonus]

I agree with what you are saying, I just don't think your goals and the goals of the organization line up.

For sure that is true. I'm a Bulls fan, and believe me, I cannot be more disgusted by their goal of being "competitive" which is now defined by making and losing in the play-in tournament.

I also think the East is so weak that they would need to overtly tank from day-1 to eliminate the possibility of falling below 10 and still have very little shot at a #1 pick. I think selling tickets (and hope) is a bigger priority for them than a single draft pick.

My goal isn't to tank, I think that's a losing strategy in this day and age for the reasons you state, my goal is just to build the asset base and stop overpaying short term players and start moving for long term assets. So I don't think you scrap everything down to nothing with the goal of winning 15 games and hope your next 3 draft picks are studs, but I do think you start making all your moves with a goal of being good in 3 years, part of that will likely yield higher draft picks when you stop using all your assets to try to tread water with short term moves.

(It is important to note: In general, I am extremely anti-tanking. We start every season with 4-5 teams prioritizing something other than winning and by March 20% of the league is actively trying to lose... it's a blight on the league. I understand why teams do it, but it hasn't proved all that successful yet.)

I'm not pro-tanking either, generally agree with you that it sucks for the league and its odds of success aren't very good.

If I were CHI I would be on the phone with SAS offering this year's #11 in place of next season's top-10 protected. It's a weak draft and they would regain control of all future 1sts.

If I were CHI, I'd be on the phone trying to sell off everything I have on the roster for future considerations

[Pickled Prunes]

I agree with what you are saying, I just don't think your goals and the goals of the organization line up.

For sure that is true. I'm a Bulls fan, and believe me, I cannot be more disgusted by their goal of being "competitive" which is now defined by making and losing in the play-in tournament.

I also think the East is so weak that they would need to overtly tank from day-1 to eliminate the possibility of falling below 10 and still have very little shot at a #1 pick. I think selling tickets (and hope) is a bigger priority for them than a single draft pick.

My goal isn't to tank, I think that's a losing strategy in this day and age for the reasons you state, my goal is just to build the asset base and stop overpaying short term players and start moving for long term assets. So I don't think you scrap everything down to nothing with the goal of winning 15 games and hope your next 3 draft picks are studs, but I do think you start making all your moves with a goal of being good in 3 years, part of that will likely yield higher draft picks when you stop using all your assets to try to tread water with short term moves.

(It is important to note: In general, I am extremely anti-tanking. We start every season with 4-5 teams prioritizing something other than winning and by March 20% of the league is actively trying to lose... it's a blight on the league. I understand why teams do it, but it hasn't proved all that successful yet.)

I'm not pro-tanking either, generally agree with you that it sucks for the league and its odds of success aren't very good.

If I were CHI I would be on the phone with SAS offering this year's #11 in place of next season's top-10 protected. It's a weak draft and they would regain control of all future 1sts.

If I were CHI, I'd be on the phone trying to sell off everything I have on the roster for future considerations

Signing DeMar for two years doesn't hinder that plan. It gives them veteran leadership which is the missing link in so many failed rebuilds... and it also sells tickets. DeMar will be retired before any of the picks in question are extension eligible. Most importantly, DeMar is a FA. CHI should obviously be open to a S&T but their return in a S&T would be minimal. In other words, he isn't currently an asset. He becomes an asset if the S&T him, but I believe he is an asset if they resign him as well, even if they overpay him.

[dougthonus]

Signing DeMar for two years doesn't hinder that plan. It gives them veteran leadership which is the missing link in so many failed rebuilds... and it also sells tickets. DeMar will be retired before any of the picks in question are extension eligible. Most importantly, DeMar is a FA. CHI should obviously be open to a S&T but their return in a S&T would be minimal. In other words, he isn't currently an asset. He becomes an asset if the S&T him, but I believe he is an asset if they resign him as well, even if they overpay him.

I sort of agree.

Most of the things I would have done required them to not be morons 2 years ago when Zach, Caruso, and DeMar and even to a lesser extent Vuc were assets (or much bigger assets).

I also think that using 40M of room on DeMar still clogs up your ability to do other future based things, and DeMar's brand of offense doesn't really teach your young guys better habits or allow them to play a modern style of game or get them as many reps as they would otherwise. He also probably makes your pick 3-4 spots worse and in the case of this next year, in a really good 2025 draft, he maybe makes the team good enough that you don't keep your pick in a year you probably want to.

I do think he's an amazing locker room guy, but there's nearly a 1:1 ratio of players to coaches/trainers on the team. I think the value of that mentoring is much lower than people think.

Keeping DeMar is absolutely not going to help you be better in 3 years, you could debate how much it hinders you, but the answer is probably at least some.

I also don't think it helps you sell any seats. For one, the Bulls rarely struggle much with attendance anyway, but most fans you talk to are pretty disgusted with the continuity of the team and aren't going to be riveted to see them run it back again.

[Pickled Prunes]

Signing DeMar for two years doesn't hinder that plan. It gives them veteran leadership which is the missing link in so many failed rebuilds... and it also sells tickets. DeMar will be retired before any of the picks in question are extension eligible. Most importantly, DeMar is a FA. CHI should obviously be open to a S&T but their return in a S&T would be minimal. In other words, he isn't currently an asset. He becomes an asset if the S&T him, but I believe he is an asset if they resign him as well, even if they overpay him.

I sort of agree.

Most of the things I would have done required them to not be morons 2 years ago when Zach, Caruso, and DeMar and even to a lesser extent Vuc were assets (or much bigger assets).

I also think that using 40M of room on DeMar still clogs up your ability to do other future based things, and DeMar's brand of offense doesn't really teach your young guys better habits or allow them to play a modern style of game or get them as many reps as they would otherwise. He also probably makes your pick 3-4 spots worse and in the case of this next year, in a really good 2025 draft, he maybe makes the team good enough that you don't keep your pick in a year you probably want to.

I do think he's an amazing locker room guy, but there's nearly a 1:1 ratio of players to coaches/trainers on the team. I think the value of that mentoring is much lower than people think.

Keeping DeMar is absolutely not going to help you be better in 3 years, you could debate how much it hinders you, but the answer is probably at least some.

I also don't think it helps you sell any seats. For one, the Bulls rarely struggle much with attendance anyway, but most fans you talk to are pretty disgusted with the continuity of the team and aren't going to be riveted to see them run it back again.

You are there and I'm not, so I'll have to take your word for it on how casual fans in CHI think about the game. I can tell you that in POR and LAL (the two cities where I have lived for extended periods) the casual fans are morons.

As far as how DeMar plays the game... I think he is brilliant in the mid-range so he lives there. He is smart enough to play to his strengths and more often than not he makes the right pass. He has a lot of qualities you would hope rub off on the kids. And while lottery balls can be helpful, what kind of work ethic do you think they're learning in WAS or DET?

But yeah, they should have traded DeMar and Caruso last December... and LaVine the moment he was selected to his first all star team. That ship has sailed. I don't think the money is an issue because (hopefully) they will be trading LaVine for expiring deals and Lonzo will be coming off the books.

Do you think CHI fans could deal with a year of Ben Simmons health updates? That is the only trade where I see CHI getting multiple 1sts for LaVine.