Re: Darvin Ham Fired By Lakers
Posted: Sat May 4, 2024 1:41 pm
GM Lebron had that meeting and said if you want me to resign get him out
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https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=415&t=2376107
hyberx wrote:dougthonus wrote:Rashidi wrote:If only teams cycled through GMs at the rate that they did coaches. Vogel and Ham both took the fall for Pelinka.
Everyone is taking the fall for LeBron.
The Lakers problems started because LeBron and AD demanded the Lakers trade for Westbrook. Pelinka made a miracle happen by dumping Westbrook and bringing back reasonable complementary pieces.
Them shuffling coaches is just a bunch of BS because LeBron needs a scapegoat that isn't him, and they are willing to put up with him being a diva to keep the franchise somewhat interesting even though there is zero chance they can build forward from where they are, it's better to maintain some relevancy with AD/LeBron than have a rebuild, so they'll continue to shuffle deck chairs to provide LeBron some cover.
Yup, the same old playbook every time, for a guy (despite playing in the minor league East Conference most of his career) who couldn't win without colluding with two more franchise players or at the peak of a pandemic where nobody really wanted to play.
That marketing propaganda has to be there to protect his "legacy", which in reality is nowhere better than anyone who actually led his own team to a championship, like Giannis Antetokounmpo, Dirk Nowitzki, and the like, let alone repeated ring winners like Curry.
dougthonus wrote:Are you suggesting the Lakers felt Westbrook was a poor fit, but they thought he would bring in a bigger following / make more money than the team already would without him? That seems pretty nonsensical. LeBron believed in the 3 star system and wanted Westbrook, it's more or less that simple.
Maybe the Lakers could have waited on AD, maybe not, but again, LeGM was pushing hard for that to happen immediately too.
I think you underestimate the massive amount of pressure he puts on the front office at all times to do things immediately even if it creates unsustainable situations or bad long term outcomes.
Pickled Prunes wrote:Maybe, but the Lakers gave up a lot to keep Lebron happy, including acquiring AD and Westbrook. Those two acquisitions cost them multiple picks, plus Lonzo, KCP, Kuzma, Hart, Ingram, Mo Wagner, De'Andre Hunter. etc. They were on the path back to relevancy when Lebron flipped the script. I don't think they would have won those rings if Lebron didn't come to town, but they would be in better long-term shape than they are today.
Rashidi wrote:Well, that's the thing, he knows that most owners are POS like Dan Gilbert or a Jerry Reinsdorf who are otherwise comfortable to rest on their laurels and rake in the cash. He grew up in the Last Dance era and surely knows it's his responsibility to keep management under pressure to win at all times.
dougthonus wrote:Pickled Prunes wrote:Maybe, but the Lakers gave up a lot to keep Lebron happy, including acquiring AD and Westbrook. Those two acquisitions cost them multiple picks, plus Lonzo, KCP, Kuzma, Hart, Ingram, Mo Wagner, De'Andre Hunter. etc. They were on the path back to relevancy when Lebron flipped the script. I don't think they would have won those rings if Lebron didn't come to town, but they would be in better long-term shape than they are today.
Almost certain they wouldn't have won a ring if LeBron didn't come or if he didn't sway AD to demand a trade there. You take the good with the bad with LeBron, and the good has historically been really, really good. The bad is very manageable in comparison even if means scapegoating some people who don't really deserve it to the press.
Rashidi wrote:With the exception of KCP, none of those players were going to develop w/ LeBron or AD around.
dougthonus wrote:Nothing about Dan Gilbert seemed to be aligned with sitting on his Laurels and trying to rake in cash, nor has that seemed to be true of any other team LeBron has been on.
A deal involving high-wire superstar Amare Stoudemire from Phoenix in February 2010 for the raw J.J. Hickson and Zydrunas Ilgauskas was rumored to be shut-down by Cavs owner Dan Gilbert, a man known for being thrifty, that saw enough in the former Wolfpack big to retain him for a fraction of Amare's cost.
Rashidi wrote:dougthonus wrote:Nothing about Dan Gilbert seemed to be aligned with sitting on his Laurels and trying to rake in cash, nor has that seemed to be true of any other team LeBron has been on.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/754856-cavs-trading-of-jj-hickson-to-kings-reminds-fans-of-lebron-jamesA deal involving high-wire superstar Amare Stoudemire from Phoenix in February 2010 for the raw J.J. Hickson and Zydrunas Ilgauskas was rumored to be shut-down by Cavs owner Dan Gilbert, a man known for being thrifty, that saw enough in the former Wolfpack big to retain him for a fraction of Amare's cost.
Rashidi wrote:With the exception of KCP, none of those players were going to develop w/ LeBron or AD around.
Pickled Prunes wrote:Ummm... why? Are you suggesting that Lebron stifles the growth of the players around him?
I disagree with you on Kuzma for instance. He was probably the worst, best player on an NBA team this season (decade?), but he would have been the 3rd best player on several good teams.
He was good next to Lebron
dougthonus wrote:Hard to look up the exact figures, but I believe Cavs, at worst, paid top 4 luxury tax payments in the NBA through the end of the LeBron era in Cleveland. They very well may have been the #1 tax paying team. They were absolutely willing to spend money despite a quote from a 15 year old article describing Gilbert as "thrifty". As of an article I found from last year, they were 7th in NBA history at that point, and at least 3 of the teams had passed them in the past couple years.
Rashidi wrote:The Cavs paid the tax (only because they had prime LeBron), but they otherwise operated like a small-market team.
They were a contender largely due to LeBron's brilliance, not because they were supplementing him effectively. They were acquiring past-prime vets (Ben Wallace, Shaquille O'Neal, Wally Szczerbiak, Antawn Jamison) in salary dumps, instead of looking for someone to actually pair with him long-term.
Not acquiring 27-year old Amare at that deadline, (something that was universally bashed at the time), instead settling for 33-year-old Antawn Jamison, because they wanted to hold onto 21-year old J.J. Hickson, was one of the final straws for the 25-year old LeBron.
Rashidi wrote:He stifles the growth of players that play the same position or require the ball, just like every other star player.
Rashidi wrote:Lol name those good teams
Rashidi wrote:He was literally LeBron's backup and was not going to get the opportunity ($$$) he wanted. He wasn't good enough of a shooter to play next to a star (and still isn't). Take a look at what Tobias Harris has done as the 3rd best guy on PHI if you want your window into "Kuzma on a good team".