Indiana Fever 2024

[Braggins]

I hate to be harsh, but I really don't think Erica Wheeler should be in the rotation at all and perhaps shouldn't even have made the roster, yet somehow shes starting and has the ball the second most of anyone on the roster through two games, if not the most. I only started following the Fever last year, but I'm honestly baffled by the reputation she seems to have within the organization.

She looked completely unplayable to me last season and looking through her career stats she shot 38% from the field over the last two seasons and is sub 40% for her career (low 30% from 3pt). Career averages are about 9/3/4 and shes had a negative net rating every year of her career. Her net rating by year since entering the league is -14, -15, -17, -15, -7, -5, -19, -8, and no team she has played on has ever had a winning record.

[TheSuzerain]

Fever coach going to get axed.

Amazing how much they are running their offense through a 33 year old 5'7" guard who shot 38% from the field over the last two seasons when they have Clark and two all-stars on the roster.

Yeah like Clark has to adjust (get stronger and better at foul baiting).

But my initial takeaway from the Fever is just that their offensive process is in ruins. Coach seems like a dud (openly said they need more long 2's from Clark) and some of the roster is just awful (Wheeler especially, but I'm getting worried about Boston/Smith even).

It's like Steph Curry dropped into early 00s NBA in terms of style clash.

[TheSuzerain]

I hate to be harsh, but I really don't think Erica Wheeler should be in the rotation at all and perhaps shouldn't even have made the roster, yet somehow shes starting and has the ball the second most of anyone on the roster through two games, if not the most. I only started following the Fever last year, but I'm honestly baffled by the reputation she seems to have within the organization.

She looked completely unplayable to me last season and looking through her career stats she shot 38% from the field over the last two seasons and is sub 40% for her career (low 30% from 3pt). Career averages are about 9/3/4 and shes had a negative net rating every year of her career. Her net rating by year since entering the league is -14, -15, -17, -15, -7, -5, -19, -8, and no team she has played on has ever had a winning record.

She's the highest paid player on the roster as they gave her a max contract a couple years back.

Fortunately that deal expires after this season.

[Braggins]

Spoiler:

I hate to be harsh, but I really don't think Erica Wheeler should be in the rotation at all and perhaps shouldn't even have made the roster, yet somehow shes starting and has the ball the second most of anyone on the roster through two games, if not the most. I only started following the Fever last year, but I'm honestly baffled by the reputation she seems to have within the organization.

She looked completely unplayable to me last season and looking through her career stats she shot 38% from the field over the last two seasons and is sub 40% for her career (low 30% from 3pt). Career averages are about 9/3/4 and shes had a negative net rating every year of her career. Her net rating by year since entering the league is -14, -15, -17, -15, -7, -5, -19, -8, and no team she has played on has ever had a winning record.

She's the highest paid player on the roster as they gave her a max contract a couple years back.

Fortunately that deal expires after this season.

The Fever can't keep behaving like a bush league operation now that they have the WNBA's golden goose on the team. I hope there is pressure from the league to nip the situation with Wheeler and their coach in the bud if this continues. People are going to tune out quickly if they keep showing up or tuning in to games just to see Wheeler airballing 3s by two feet and dribbling the ball off her leg while Clark stands in the corner.

Last year they basically gave Queen Egbo away to another team coming off making 2nd team all-rookie in her first season because she was apparently not happy with her role behind Boston, so I don't see any reason they can't do something similar with Wheeler. I doubt Wheeler makes another roster after her stint with Indiana is over, so I'm guessing shes basically untradeable on a max contract, but I think she is bad enough to justify just waiving her if shes not ok with being their 3rd string PG.

[MrDollarBills]

The media seems to be frothing at the mouth over this. What did anyone expect, seriously?

I think the criticism being laid out in this thread are all excellent points. The Fever's offense looks like they didn't even have a training camp or practices. Wheeler has been awful. Last night I was kind of shocked at how unprepared they looked, despite knowing full well that they didn't have a chance in their current form of beating my Liberty. Stewie is a GOAT. It is what it is.

But honestly most folks who paid attention to women's hoops knew that this was going to be an uphill climb for this team regardless of coaching. The roster is bad.

Also, Clark isn't Candace Parker. She's the only rookie that I can remember that came into the W beating people's asses from Day 1. Everyone else had to take their lumps and it's the same for CC. The media needs to relax ffs

[MrDollarBills]

Spoiler:

I hate to be harsh, but I really don't think Erica Wheeler should be in the rotation at all and perhaps shouldn't even have made the roster, yet somehow shes starting and has the ball the second most of anyone on the roster through two games, if not the most. I only started following the Fever last year, but I'm honestly baffled by the reputation she seems to have within the organization.

She looked completely unplayable to me last season and looking through her career stats she shot 38% from the field over the last two seasons and is sub 40% for her career (low 30% from 3pt). Career averages are about 9/3/4 and shes had a negative net rating every year of her career. Her net rating by year since entering the league is -14, -15, -17, -15, -7, -5, -19, -8, and no team she has played on has ever had a winning record.

She's the highest paid player on the roster as they gave her a max contract a couple years back.

Fortunately that deal expires after this season.

The Fever can't keep behaving like a bush league operation now that they have the WNBA's golden goose on the team. I hope there is pressure from the league to nip the situation with Wheeler and their coach in the bud if this continues. People are going to tune out quickly if they keep showing up or tuning in to games just to see Wheeler airballing 3s by two feet and dribbling the ball off her leg while Clark stands in the corner.

Last year they basically gave Queen Egbo away to another team coming off making 2nd team all-rookie in her first season because she was apparently not happy with her role behind Boston, so I don't see any reason they can't do something similar with Wheeler. I doubt Wheeler makes another roster after her stint with Indiana is over, so I'm guessing shes basically untradeable on a max contract, but I think she is bad enough to justify just waiving her if shes not ok with being their 3rd string PG.

I agree with you regarding Wheeler and the coach's philosophy, but this team was not going to be very good as constructed. If people are tuning in thinking that this is CC at Iowa 2.0, they sorely underestimated how good the players in this league are. That doesn't take away from your points at all, I just think that the media's fervor over said golden goose has set expectations unrealistically high. This team picked #1 in back to back drafts for a reason.

They faced an elite defensive club led by a first ballot HoFer and then a literal super team led by arguably one of the five best women to ever pick up a basketball. It was never going to end well

[Braggins]

I agree with you regarding Wheeler and the coach's philosophy, but this team was not going to be very good as constructed. If people are tuning in thinking that this is CC at Iowa 2.0, they sorely underestimated how good the players in this league are. That doesn't take away from your points at all, I just think that the media's fervor over said golden goose has set expectations unrealistically high. This team picked #1 in back to back drafts for a reason.

They faced an elite defensive club led by a first ballot HoFer and then a literal super team led by arguably one of the five best women to ever pick up a basketball. It was never going to end well

I think we're on the same page.

Its hard to avoid everything seeming like its framed around Clark and I'm certainly not trying to join the chorus of people trashing every player/person that has anything to do with this team to make excuses for Clark's struggles (although some specific criticisms are potentially valid imo).

Clark struggling in general isn't surprising or something to be concerned about. For me its more about the overall product on offense and how Mitchell, Boston, and Smith, also don't seem to be getting put in a position to succeed. I don't expect them to be a good team, but they should be at least pretty good offensively and they definitely shouldn't be this much of a train wreck.

My mind is kind of blown by the Wheeler situation, though. I didn't know about the contract stuff until you informed me (I started following right before they signed her, but didn't pay attention to her contract details). I just read that she is the 7th highest paid player in the WNBA. So the Fever gave the 7th biggest contract in the league to a 32 year old player coming off a season where they shot 35% from the field, averaged 8 points per game, and had a -17 net rating. Like, what in the world lol...

[MrDollarBills]

I agree with you regarding Wheeler and the coach's philosophy, but this team was not going to be very good as constructed. If people are tuning in thinking that this is CC at Iowa 2.0, they sorely underestimated how good the players in this league are. That doesn't take away from your points at all, I just think that the media's fervor over said golden goose has set expectations unrealistically high. This team picked #1 in back to back drafts for a reason.

They faced an elite defensive club led by a first ballot HoFer and then a literal super team led by arguably one of the five best women to ever pick up a basketball. It was never going to end well

I think we're on the same page.

Its hard to avoid everything seeming like its framed around Clark and I'm certainly not trying to join the chorus of people trashing every player/person that has anything to do with this team to make excuses for Clark's struggles (although some specific criticisms are potentially valid imo).

Clark struggling in general isn't surprising or something to be concerned about. For me its more about the overall product on offense and how Mitchell, Boston, and Smith, also don't seem to be getting put in a position to succeed. I don't expect them to be a good team, but they should be at least pretty good offensively and they definitely shouldn't be this much of a train wreck.

My mind is kind of blown by the Wheeler situation, though. I didn't know about the contract stuff until you informed me (I started following right before they signed her, but didn't pay attention to her contract details). I just read that she is the 7th highest player in the WNBA. So the Fever gave the 7th biggest contract in the league to a 32 year old player coming off a season where they shot 35% from the field, averaged 8 points per game, and had a -17 net rating. Like, what in the world lol...

Yeah, it's pretty bad regarding Wheeler. I don’t think that situation is sustainable, they're going to have to focus around CC, Boston and Mitch. 100% agree with you. All of your criticisms have been spot on, last night was a disaster for them regardless of how outmatched they were. Everyone looked lost.

I still think Indiana should at least be or could develop to be better offensively as the season goes on, but right now it's going to be rough. The coaching is an issue and players aren't being used to their strengths.

[sikma42]

I agree with you regarding Wheeler and the coach's philosophy, but this team was not going to be very good as constructed. If people are tuning in thinking that this is CC at Iowa 2.0, they sorely underestimated how good the players in this league are. That doesn't take away from your points at all, I just think that the media's fervor over said golden goose has set expectations unrealistically high. This team picked #1 in back to back drafts for a reason.

They faced an elite defensive club led by a first ballot HoFer and then a literal super team led by arguably one of the five best women to ever pick up a basketball. It was never going to end well

I think we're on the same page.

Its hard to avoid everything seeming like its framed around Clark and I'm certainly not trying to join the chorus of people trashing every player/person that has anything to do with this team to make excuses for Clark's struggles (although some specific criticisms are potentially valid imo).

Clark struggling in general isn't surprising or something to be concerned about. For me its more about the overall product on offense and how Mitchell, Boston, and Smith, also don't seem to be getting put in a position to succeed. I don't expect them to be a good team, but they should be at least pretty good offensively and they definitely shouldn't be this much of a train wreck.

My mind is kind of blown by the Wheeler situation, though. I didn't know about the contract stuff until you informed me (I started following right before they signed her, but didn't pay attention to her contract details). I just read that she is the 7th highest player in the WNBA. So the Fever gave the 7th biggest contract in the league to a 32 year old player coming off a season where they shot 35% from the field, averaged 8 points per game, and had a -17 net rating. Like, what in the world lol...

Yeah, it's pretty bad regarding Wheeler. I don’t think that situation is sustainable, they're going to have to focus around CC, Boston and Mitch. 100% agree with you. All of your criticisms have been spot on, last night was a disaster for them regardless of how outmatched they were. Everyone looked lost.

I still think Indiana should at least be or could develop to be better offensively as the season goes on, but right now it's going to be rough. The coaching is an issue and players aren't being used to their strengths.

From what I've read, the Fever weren't expected to be the worse team in the league. Think CBS had them at 8th or 9th out of 12th teams. Her teammates being bad is being overstated imo. They also weren't in last place last year.

[wojoaderge]

What's wrong with long 2s?

[LewisnotMiller]

Stewie is out there cooking these kids

Just a player who totally knows where to get her looks.
But that block on Boston...whew...!!

[LewisnotMiller]

What's wrong with long 2s?

Nothing if they go in. But analytically they're inefficient.
If I shoot 40% on long twos and 33% on threes, the three is the better shot.
Both because of my AVG points per shot attempt, and because of the additional spacing it provides.

[Ree4erMadness]

i'm from Nap and I watch the Fever and this is how I feel about it. Caitlin stands in the corner too much. The offense looks so robotic and stagnant and its almost like Caitlin doesn't know if its ok to actually be herself and play her free flowing game. Its like she doesn't want to step on her teammates toes because they were there before her, even though they're young too. But its not Iowa where she's by far the best player and her teammates are all her friends and look up to her so they have no issue deferring to her.

Biggest thing I notice is that it seems that Caitlin and Boston are terrible match. You'd think a great big and great guard would be perfect but Boston is a throwback, strictly low post big for the most part. Rarely steps out to shoot jumpers, rarely drives from the perimeter, there's no pick and pop with her. She can only really roll. So sometimes you had Wheeler at the top of the key, while Caitlin comes from the corner of the down screen but Boston is literally trying to post up in the middle of the lane on every possession. And since the post up game is still a huge part of the WNBA, when players fight for post up position, they fight FOREVER. So she's in the lane forever and you look up the clock is down and we barely get a good shot off.

I agree with you guys, I think this is all coaching. She's gotta come up with a better offense. Its like they still have all these ball handlers like Wheeler, Mitchell, and these girls still have their roles but I feel like everybody just needs to kinda get out the way and let Caitlin play her game? But these are #1 and #2 picks themselves on her team also. So I dunno how easy it is to defer.

[wojoaderge]

What's wrong with long 2s?

Nothing if they go in. But analytically they're inefficient.
If I shoot 40% on long twos and 33% on threes, the three is the better shot.
Both because of my AVG points per shot attempt, and because of the additional spacing it provides.

I know that. But I agree with her coach that she needs to diversify her game

[LewisnotMiller]

What's wrong with long 2s?

Nothing if they go in. But analytically they're inefficient.
If I shoot 40% on long twos and 33% on threes, the three is the better shot.
Both because of my AVG points per shot attempt, and because of the additional spacing it provides.

I know that. But I agree with her coach that she needs to diversify her game

So do I. I'm not sure that means long twos, but like I said ..if they go in, they're a good shot

[Wizop]

Mitchell helps

[MrDollarBills]

What's wrong with long 2s?

Nothing if they go in. But analytically they're inefficient.
If I shoot 40% on long twos and 33% on threes, the three is the better shot.
Both because of my AVG points per shot attempt, and because of the additional spacing it provides.

Right, absolutely.

The only thing I would say is that I judge mid range shooting on a case by case basis. If Stewie is pulling up from 10-16 feet, I'm taking that shot all day from her. I'm of the belief that the mid range J still has a place in the game.

[MrDollarBills]

This is a pretty good game so far. Sabrina is cooking, CC has looked good.

Looks like Boston just got hit with a flagrant

[MrDollarBills]

CC uses her gravity to draw two, dishes to Mitchell. The play results in a trip to the line.

Simple basketball always gets it done. Not a bad quarter from the young Fever. Liberty haven't turned it on yet though

I really hate that they're shoving a mic in CC's face after the quarter but I guess it has to be done.

[MrDollarBills]

i'm from Nap and I watch the Fever and this is how I feel about it. Caitlin stands in the corner too much. The offense looks so robotic and stagnant and its almost like Caitlin doesn't know if its ok to actually be herself and play her free flowing game. Its like she doesn't want to step on her teammates toes because they were there before her, even though they're young too. But its not Iowa where she's by far the best player and her teammates are all her friends and look up to her so they have no issue deferring to her.

Biggest thing I notice is that it seems that Caitlin and Boston are terrible match. You'd think a great big and great guard would be perfect but Boston is a throwback, strictly low post big for the most part. Rarely steps out to shoot jumpers, rarely drives from the perimeter, there's no pick and pop with her. She can only really roll. So sometimes you had Wheeler at the top of the key, while Caitlin comes from the corner of the down screen but Boston is literally trying to post up in the middle of the lane on every possession. And since the post up game is still a huge part of the WNBA, when players fight for post up position, they fight FOREVER. So she's in the lane forever and you look up the clock is down and we barely get a good shot off.

I agree with you guys, I think this is all coaching. She's gotta come up with a better offense. Its like they still have all these ball handlers like Wheeler, Mitchell, and these girls still have their roles but I feel like everybody just needs to kinda get out the way and let Caitlin play her game? But these are #1 and #2 picks themselves on her team also. So I dunno how easy it is to defer.

CC looks much more comfortable today than she did the first two contests.

I think it's gonna take time for these players to get tbh. Once CC and Boston fully learn where their spots are and how each other like to operate, they'll be a much better duo.