MVP and All-WNBA watch

[MrDollarBills]

A'ja had a stretch where her defense looked so good that I was leaning towards her for MVP, but the defense has not been the same the past couple weeks, and she's had some real stinkers on offense against the Liberty.

I think for a lot of media it's going to be an A'ja vs. Stewie thing, and I get it. They're the faces of the league and have the gaudy scoring numbers while starring on super teams.

But Alyssa Thomas to me has by far the best MVP case, and I wish there was a stronger narrative push for what she's doing in Connecticut. This team is really light on offensive firepower with Brionna Jones out for the season, but this team has just chugged along around AT. She leads the NBA in rebounding and assists (has this ever happened before?), she's the best defensive player in the W, and look at the terrifying on/off number. She's at +29.5 in on/off and the next closest starter (her wife) is at +11.8. This is as big as carry job as we ever see. While A'ja and Stewie are playing on super teams, AT has the Sun keeping pace without anywhere near the same talent.

As much as this season is focused on the clash of the titans (Liberty vs. Aces), the Sun are an incredibly fun, plucky underdog built around one of the best individual efforts this league has ever seen. Narrative bonus points for a team led by a married couple.

Is this the first time in pro sports history where we have a married couple on a team, but also leading them? Amazing to think about honestly.

I think that's one of the beautiful things about the W. No one has to hide who they are or who they love.

So Taurasi & Taylor weren't married at the time, but they did lead the Mercury together.
Vandersloot & Quigley did get married while playing together and I think they count.

It is something that I've only ever seen in the W though, and I think that's really something. I'm generally positive about it, but as with all office romances, if it goes bad, it would be really bad.

Still, I wish that NBA players were only held back by that instead of the massive cultural shame attached to atypical male sexuality.

Oh for sure. I have no doubts that there are gay/bisexual NBA players, or even players who are romantically involved with each other on the low. It's sad that they can't live their truth.

That's why i was so happy for my guy Jason Collins (former Nets Center) for when he came out and the support he gets from his peers. Jason Kidd, Richard Jefferson etc all have publicly showed their love for him. When he gets interviewed you can tell he's just happy and free...everyone regardless of gender or sexuality should be able to be that way.

[cupcakesnake]

The season is almost over and I have no idea who is going to win this award.

I don't have a good handle on who the WNBA media even is (and who has votes) so I don't want to make big assumptions. If the WNBA media is nerdy, I think Alyssa Thomas is still a big candidate with a strong case for actually winning the award. If the media is more general, I think she'll be disqualified based solely on brand recognition (AT didn't even get voted an all-star starter remember).

Betting markets have it squarely between Stewie and A'ja, but they're split on who they think will win.

[MrDollarBills]

The season is almost over and I have no idea who is going to win this award.

I don't have a good handle on who the WNBA media even is (and who has votes) so I don't want to make big assumptions. If the WNBA media is nerdy, I think Alyssa Thomas is still a big candidate with a strong case for actually winning the award. If the media is more general, I think she'll be disqualified based solely on brand recognition (AT didn't even get voted an all-star starter remember).

Betting markets have it squarely between Stewie and A'ja, but they're split on who they think will win.

Right now, Stewie is probably the favorite but AT honestly has my vote. She's the best overall player in the league

[cupcakesnake]

The season is almost over and I have no idea who is going to win this award.

I don't have a good handle on who the WNBA media even is (and who has votes) so I don't want to make big assumptions. If the WNBA media is nerdy, I think Alyssa Thomas is still a big candidate with a strong case for actually winning the award. If the media is more general, I think she'll be disqualified based solely on brand recognition (AT didn't even get voted an all-star starter remember).

Betting markets have it squarely between Stewie and A'ja, but they're split on who they think will win.

Right now, Stewie is probably the favorite but AT honestly has my vote. She's the best overall player in the league

If our W board was a bit bigger, I might have made a separate topic to discuss this:

While watching Sun vs. Mercury last week, I couldn't help but wonder: if you traded AT for A'ja or Stewie, would the Aces/Liberty be better? AT doesn't have anywhere near the scoring power of her fellow MVP candidates, but with both of them playing on teams that are absolutely loaded with scoring fire power...imagine AT in the middle of those lineups, bashing her way into the paint and moving the ball to all those shooters. Conneticut has decent shooting, but most of their shooters aren't really attackers. Imagine Thomas driving and kicking to Kelsey Plum and Jackie Young, or Ionescu and Johannes. I feel that they might be even better offensively despite losing their leading scorers in this equation. Also AT provides a huge boost to transition offense while souping up the defense.

This is what had me thinking AT is the MVP. Not only is she more valuable to her own team (+30.4 on/off !), I think she might be more valuable in either of her competitors contexts as well. It's just an idea based on playstyle, not something I can prove or even assert with serious confidence.

On the flip side, New York absolutely bottled up Thomas's playmaking last Friday and had her looking nothing like an MVP on offense.

[Doctor MJ]

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

My guess at this point would be Breanna Stewart with Alyssa Thomas as the 2nd most likely candidate, and A'ja Wilson 3rd.

A significant part of my thinking is the fact that Wilson won it last year when many (including myself) thought Stewie deserved it, and so now Wilson has 2 MVPs already to Stewie's 1, is younger than Stewie...and is generally not seen as good as Stewie. Had Vegas ran the tables through the regular season with a dominant head-to-head against the Liberty things would be different, but the two teams now seem like co-favorites.

Alyssa Thomas though I could see taking it for any voter who soured on Stewie's candidacy earlier in the year. Early on this felt like an A'ja vs Alyssa battle, and as the season progressed various things have been championed about Alyssa's unique game that - along with the fact she hasn't won before - could really end up giving her the narrative bump. I feel like the way Stewie and the Liberty owned Alyssa's Sun probably swings voters to New York, but if there's any active resistance to Stewie's candidacy, I think Alyssa is who folks will rally behind.

[cupcakesnake]

It'll be interesting to see what happens.

My guess at this point would be Breanna Stewart with Alyssa Thomas as the 2nd most likely candidate, and A'ja Wilson 3rd.

A significant part of my thinking is the fact that Wilson won it last year when many (including myself) thought Stewie deserved it, and so now Wilson has 2 MVPs already to Stewie's 1, is younger than Stewie...and is generally not seen as good as Stewie. Had Vegas ran the tables through the regular season with a dominant head-to-head against the Liberty things would be different, but the two teams now seem like co-favorites.

Alyssa Thomas though I could see taking it for any voter who soured on Stewie's candidacy earlier in the year. Early on this felt like an A'ja vs Alyssa battle, and as the season progressed various things have been championed about Alyssa's unique game that - along with the fact she hasn't won before - could really end up giving her the narrative bump. I feel like the way Stewie and the Liberty owned Alyssa's Sun probably swings voters to New York, but if there's any active resistance to Stewie's candidacy, I think Alyssa is who folks will rally behind.

Last year it felt the MVP narrative got swept up in how good the Aces were all year, or how dominant their offense was, and A'ja being more than good enough to be an MVP candidate. I definitely prize Stewie' offensive versatility (with her vastly superior shooting and pasing) over A'ja raw scoring power and rim protection combo, but I think they're both MVP level players.

A'ja has been even better this year. Increased scoring volume and efficiency, and a career high block rate. She's increasingly been more of a scoring finisher though, rather than an offensive hub, but that mostly has to do with increasing Chelsea Gray's role as a faciliatator. Stewie hasn't been better statistically better this year, but she has played more minutes so maybe her per game stuff impresses voters enough.

I think though like last year, the MVP might end up a team award. Despite the Aces being better on the year, the Liberty have been the more impressive team lately (and for the whole second half of the season). I think the Liberty "figuring it out" while the Aces have faded after the Candace Parker injury, will tilt the voters towards Stewie. I don't really like when voters try to account for posterity when they vote, but I do agree that it would be a weird world where A'ja had 3 to Stewie's 1.

But I wish I saw more narrative steam behind the Alyssa Thomas season. Connecticut was arguably the best team in the league last year and then they lose MVP Jonquel Jones and quickly lose Brionna Jones (their win share leader) to injury. Multiple super teams form, leaving them in the dust, especially because Jonquel left to form one of those super teams. But AT just keeps on crushing with her unique blend of brute force, playmaking, transition offense, and DPOY-level defense. We have 2 MVP level players piling up numbers on stacked teams, and 1 new MVP candidate creating almost as much team success while carrying a much heavier load. Maybe I have an anti-scoring bias here, but to me it feels clear who is making the biggest impact.

[MrDollarBills]

Being an objective fan, Thomas has my vote.

[zike_42]

It's got to be AT. She's doing stuff we've never seen in the WNBA and it's not like it's stat padding on a weak team, CON are third in the league. As much as A'ja and Stewie have been, AT should get it IMO.

[cupcakesnake]

I wonder. Alyssa Thomas finished only 4th in frontcourt all-star media votes (behind the 2 other MVP candidates and Satou Sabally). Now maybe the media feels silly for this and accounts for that in their MVP vote. Or she could be under-recognized by the media. The WNBA media is harder to get a big picture concept than the NBA is.

[MrDollarBills]

Stewie won the AP Player of the Year award by one vote over Wilson. Wow!!!

Other winners of the AP awards:

Alysha Clark was chosen as the AP Sixth Woman of the Year

AP Coach of the Year is Connecticut's Stephanie White

Rookie of the Year: Aliyah Boston. (duh)

A'ja Wilson is the defensive player of the year

Comeback Players of the Year: Brittney Griner and Napheesa Collier.

Most Improved Player: Satou Sabally

All-Rookie Team: Boston was joined on the team by teammate Grace Berger, Dorka Juhasz and Diamond Miller of Minnesota, Jordan Horston of Seattle and Haley Jones of Atlanta.

All-WNBA Teams: Stewart, Wilson and Thomas were unanimous first-team selections. Joining them on the first-team are Seattle's Jewell Loyd and Las Vegas' Chelsea Gray. The second team: Jackie Young of Las Vegas; Sabrina Ionescu of New York; Arike Ogunbowale; Sabally and Collier.

[Doctor MJ]

A'ja Wilson is the defensive player of the year

Wow. So to me this was where I was expecting AT to definitely get love.

I can't help but feel like media voting with the WNBA is still trapped in the past and not really making use of +/- data.

Aces DRtg:
A'ja ON 99.8
A'ja OFF 102.3
On-Off -2.5

Sun DRtg:
AT ON 99.8
AT OFF 111.1
On-Off -11.3

This is a simplistic stat of course and not proof that AT is more deserving just on its own, but it does really illustrate the issue with "best defensive player on the best defensive team" thinking. With each player on, the teams did equally good defensively, and AT played considerably more than A'ja, but because the Sun showed true signs of being unable to do their defensive thing without AT, it may well have ended up costing her this award.

It's possible that AT will win the MVP and the DPOY is essentially a consolation prize for A'ja so we'll see what happens there...but it's a weird thing the idea of giving a DPOY consolation prize to a player who won the official DPOY last year.

[cupcakesnake]

Stewie won the AP Player of the Year award by one vote over Wilson. Wow!!!

Other winners of the AP awards:

Alysha Clark was chosen as the AP Sixth Woman of the Year

AP Coach of the Year is Connecticut's Stephanie White

Rookie of the Year: Aliyah Boston. (duh)

A'ja Wilson is the defensive player of the year

Comeback Players of the Year: Brittney Griner and Napheesa Collier.

Most Improved Player: Satou Sabally

All-Rookie Team: Boston was joined on the team by teammate Grace Berger, Dorka Juhasz and Diamond Miller of Minnesota, Jordan Horston of Seattle and Haley Jones of Atlanta.

All-WNBA Teams: Stewart, Wilson and Thomas were unanimous first-team selections. Joining them on the first-team are Seattle's Jewell Loyd and Las Vegas' Chelsea Gray. The second team: Jackie Young of Las Vegas; Sabrina Ionescu of New York; Arike Ogunbowale; Sabally and Collier.

Pretty hard to hate on any of these picks. We had 3 strong MVP cases (all of whom were also DPOY candidates). Even if I prefered someone else, I can't talk myself into calling one of the other 2 a bad pick! Also for big picture history, I'm glad if Stewie adds to her MVP total.

Does the All-W team have positions? I was not super into Jewel Lloyd as a 1st teamer (had her in mind for second team). In general I was curious how the voters were going to handle Jewel and Arike's inefficient big scoring seasons. With Arike, at least when you watch the games you see her really driving and offense (one that ranked 3rd in the league) even if she has some ugly cold stretches. But Jewell sometimes felt like she was getting up shots because no one else on the team wanted them. The result was the worst offense in the league, and it's not like Jewell was making things happen as a playmaker. It was cool that she set the record for points, and we already know she can be a more efficient option on a good team, but I just don't really care about piling up points in this kind of situation.

[cupcakesnake]

A'ja Wilson is the defensive player of the year

Wow. So to me this was where I was expecting AT to definitely get love.

I can't help but feel like media voting with the WNBA is still trapped in the past and not really making use of +/- data.

Aces DRtg:
A'ja ON 99.8
A'ja OFF 102.3
On-Off -2.5

Sun DRtg:
AT ON 99.8
AT OFF 111.1
On-Off -11.3

This is a simplistic stat of course and not proof that AT is more deserving just on its own, but it does really illustrate the issue with "best defensive player on the best defensive team" thinking. With each player on, the teams did equally good defensively, and AT played considerably more than A'ja, but because the Sun showed true signs of being unable to do their defensive thing without AT, it may well have ended up costing her this award.

It's possible that AT will win the MVP and the DPOY is essentially a consolation prize for A'ja so we'll see what happens there...but it's a weird thing the idea of giving a DPOY consolation prize to a player who won the official DPOY last year.

Big agree here. I felt the DPOY slowly slipping from AT in the final third of the season as the media kept talking about A'ja's rim protection powering the Aces #1 ranked defense. But the Sun's defense was only a tiny smidge less efficient, and the on/off numbers only confirm the blatantly obvious fact that AT is the be-all-end-all of the defense (all due respect to Rebecca Allen).

A'ja is a really really good defender and a worthy DPOY. But AT had an insanely special defensive season and I wonder if the WNBA media is in a bit of an early 2000s look at blocks per game mode with this award :/

[Doctor MJ]

A'ja Wilson is the defensive player of the year

Wow. So to me this was where I was expecting AT to definitely get love.

I can't help but feel like media voting with the WNBA is still trapped in the past and not really making use of +/- data.

Aces DRtg:
A'ja ON 99.8
A'ja OFF 102.3
On-Off -2.5

Sun DRtg:
AT ON 99.8
AT OFF 111.1
On-Off -11.3

This is a simplistic stat of course and not proof that AT is more deserving just on its own, but it does really illustrate the issue with "best defensive player on the best defensive team" thinking. With each player on, the teams did equally good defensively, and AT played considerably more than A'ja, but because the Sun showed true signs of being unable to do their defensive thing without AT, it may well have ended up costing her this award.

It's possible that AT will win the MVP and the DPOY is essentially a consolation prize for A'ja so we'll see what happens there...but it's a weird thing the idea of giving a DPOY consolation prize to a player who won the official DPOY last year.

Big agree here. I felt the DPOY slowly slipping from AT in the final third of the season as the media kept talking about A'ja's rim protection powering the Aces #1 ranked defense. But the Sun's defense was only a tiny smidge less efficient, and the on/off numbers only confirm the blatantly obvious fact that AT is the be-all-end-all of the defense (all due respect to Rebecca Allen).

A'ja is a really really good defender and a worthy DPOY. But AT had an insanely special defensive season and I wonder if the WNBA media is in a bit of an early 2000s look at blocks per game mode with this award :/

To be honest, I think A'ja's gotten too much awards love due to her being the star of a top team. Is it worth accolades being the top Ace? Absolutely...but she's had so much talent around her for years now, and it feels like people tend to brush that to the side.

Now, Breanna's got a ton of talent on her current team too so I'm not trying to say that that's beyond debate, but as I alluded to before, when A'ja got the MVP over Breanna last year it just seemed strange to me, and it's going to be super-weird if A'ja gets a 3rd MVP this year.

[MrDollarBills]

A'ja Wilson is the defensive player of the year

Wow. So to me this was where I was expecting AT to definitely get love.

I can't help but feel like media voting with the WNBA is still trapped in the past and not really making use of +/- data.

Aces DRtg:
A'ja ON 99.8
A'ja OFF 102.3
On-Off -2.5

Sun DRtg:
AT ON 99.8
AT OFF 111.1
On-Off -11.3

This is a simplistic stat of course and not proof that AT is more deserving just on its own, but it does really illustrate the issue with "best defensive player on the best defensive team" thinking. With each player on, the teams did equally good defensively, and AT played considerably more than A'ja, but because the Sun showed true signs of being unable to do their defensive thing without AT, it may well have ended up costing her this award.

It's possible that AT will win the MVP and the DPOY is essentially a consolation prize for A'ja so we'll see what happens there...but it's a weird thing the idea of giving a DPOY consolation prize to a player who won the official DPOY last year.

Thomas was the best overall player in the league on both ends of the floor so I highly suspect some lazy/biased voting was going on here.

[MrDollarBills]

Stewie won the AP Player of the Year award by one vote over Wilson. Wow!!!

Other winners of the AP awards:

Alysha Clark was chosen as the AP Sixth Woman of the Year

AP Coach of the Year is Connecticut's Stephanie White

Rookie of the Year: Aliyah Boston. (duh)

A'ja Wilson is the defensive player of the year

Comeback Players of the Year: Brittney Griner and Napheesa Collier.

Most Improved Player: Satou Sabally

All-Rookie Team: Boston was joined on the team by teammate Grace Berger, Dorka Juhasz and Diamond Miller of Minnesota, Jordan Horston of Seattle and Haley Jones of Atlanta.

All-WNBA Teams: Stewart, Wilson and Thomas were unanimous first-team selections. Joining them on the first-team are Seattle's Jewell Loyd and Las Vegas' Chelsea Gray. The second team: Jackie Young of Las Vegas; Sabrina Ionescu of New York; Arike Ogunbowale; Sabally and Collier.

Pretty hard to hate on any of these picks. We had 3 strong MVP cases (all of whom were also DPOY candidates). Even if I prefered someone else, I can't talk myself into calling one of the other 2 a bad pick! Also for big picture history, I'm glad if Stewie adds to her MVP total.

Does the All-W team have positions? I was not super into Jewel Lloyd as a 1st teamer (had her in mind for second team). In general I was curious how the voters were going to handle Jewel and Arike's inefficient big scoring seasons. With Arike, at least when you watch the games you see her really driving and offense (one that ranked 3rd in the league) even if she has some ugly cold stretches. But Jewell sometimes felt like she was getting up shots because no one else on the team wanted them. The result was the worst offense in the league, and it's not like Jewell was making things happen as a playmaker. It was cool that she set the record for points, and we already know she can be a more efficient option on a good team, but I just don't really care about piling up points in this kind of situation.

You're right, it was moreso because she literally had to carry Seattle's offense. The Gold Mamba posted her highest FGA on average this season (a whopping 20 attempts per game, 6 more shots than her previous career high) for an absolutely brutal percentage.

Help is on the way though. Seattle is currently projected to pick 4th overall in an absolutely loaded draft. Reese or Brink would be a good piece to add.

[bisme37]

Read on Twitter

[bisme37]

Aja DPOY

Read on Twitter

[G R E Y]

Read on Twitter

[bisme37]

Congrats Breanna Stewart!

WNBA website says the MVP voting result was the closest ever this year...

Stewart received 20 first-place votes, 23 second-place votes and 17 third-place votes from a national panel of 60 sportswriters and broadcasters, earning 446 total points. Connecticut Sun forward Alyssa Thomas finished in second place with 439 points (23 first-place votes, 12 second-place votes and 25 third-place votes). Las Vegas Aces center A’ja Wilson, the 2020 and 2022 Kia WNBA Most Valuable Player, was third with 433 points (17 first-place votes, 25 second-place votes, 17 third-place votes and one fourth-place vote).

Players were awarded 10 points for a first-place vote, seven points for a second-place vote, five points for a third-place vote, three points for a fourth-place vote and one point for a fifth-place vote.

With Stewart and Thomas separated by seven points, this marks the second-smallest margin between the first- and second-place finishers in the history of the award; the closest finish was a two-point difference between MVP Swoopes (327 points) and runner-up Jackson (325) in 2005. The 13 points separating Stewart and Wilson represent the smallest margin between first- and third-place vote-getters for MVP in WNBA history, surpassing the 45-point difference between MVP Parker (234) and third-place finisher Delle Donne (189) in 2013.

In addition, this is the second time in WNBA history that the MVP runner-up received more first-place votes than the award recipient. In 2005, Jackson received 20 first-place votes and Swoopes received 16.

Alyssa Thomas actually got more 1st place votes but not as many points overall. Then Aja was right behind AT.

(I'm not complaining btw, well deserved award for Stewie.)

https://www.wnba.com/news/2023-kia-wnba-poty