RealGM

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:29 pm**

dingclancy wrote:My point is he is a rotational player that belongs in the NBA. The NBA Should hold the top 500+ players in the world.

So 30 NBA Franchises with 15 players each are supposed to contain the best 500+ players in the world?

You didn't major in math, did you?

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:32 pm**

Malinhion wrote:
dingclancy wrote:My point is he is a rotational player that belongs in the NBA. The NBA Should hold the top 500+ players in the world.

So 30 NBA Franchises with 15 players each are supposed to contain the best 500+ players in the world?

You didn't major in math, did you?

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:34 pm**

Malinhion wrote:
dingclancy wrote:My point is he is a rotational player that belongs in the NBA. The NBA Should hold the top 500+ players in the world.

So 30 NBA Franchises with 15 players each are supposed to contain the best 500+ players in the world?

You didn't major in math, did you?

Don't forget the NBDL

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:36 pm**

Cybulski37 wrote:
Malinhion wrote:
dingclancy wrote:My point is he is a rotational player that belongs in the NBA. The NBA Should hold the top 500+ players in the world.

So 30 NBA Franchises with 15 players each are supposed to contain the best 500+ players in the world?

You didn't major in math, did you?

Don't forget the NBDL

The development league is an entirely different league.

Either way, if we assume he meant that, he's basically saying that the 3rd string of every franchise and the top 50 players in the NBADL should all be better than everyone in Europe. That's not just ignorant--its CRAZY!!

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 5:51 pm**

It is interesting how these average players manage to beat the almighty USA team in olympics and WC.

BTW, Nachbar will make 6 million € per season and not 3. He is the best payed player in Europe...

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:04 pm**

thebirdman wrote:It is interesting how these average players manage to beat the almighty USA team in olympics and WC.

BTW, Nachbar will make 6 million € per season and not 3. He is the best payed player in Europe...

Woops you are right. I had everything written down then typed in the wrong salary. Fixed it though. Still have to see exactly what Childress got.

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:06 pm**

jefe wrote:
22 players in Europe are currently making equal to the full NBA MLE and 13 players in Europe are currently making MORE than the full NBA MLE.

Wow, when you look at those underwhelming numbers (only 22 players on the entire continent make the average NBA salary) and the underwhelming talent on that list (particularly the players that have spent time in the NBA), I think together they should assuage the alarmist posts/fears connected to the Childress signing.

Well Childress makes it 23, and Garbajosa will be 24 when he signs.

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:07 pm**

SA37 wrote:
Lakers_4_Life wrote:Well Panathinaikos gave Dominique what is equal to a $17 million contract today for 1 year back in 1996. It was always said they wanted him to sign for a lot of years (5 years) but he would only sign for one. So it's not without precedence at least for Panathinaikos that they might offer some huge contract to the right NBA player.

I can't think of any other Euro teams that gave out such enormous contracts in the past as you are talking about to attract the types of NBA players you mention. But the thing is, we have obviously entered into a new era of salaries in European basketball. Just a couple years ago if someone would have said that what has happened this off season was actually going to happen, they would have even been laughed out of a European basketball forum.

It's like I've said in other threads teams like Panathinaikos and Olympiacos has 2-3 million euro budgets just 4 years or so ago. Now they are spending that on single players.

Well, that is why I was kind of "thinking out loud" at what the possibilities might be down the road.

I know these clubs are incredibly rich, which is why you can see silly articles like Real Madrid reportedly being willing to throw 100€ million for Ronaldo and then pay him stupid amounts of money (reportedly Madrid were willing to offer Ronaldo a 5-year, 75€ million deal).

The thing is, since basketball doesn't have the popularity or generate the revenue that football does, you have to wonder if it makes sense to drop the kind of money it would take to get one of those guys over here, particularly in their prime.

I am still convinced Europe's chances of pulling a Wade or LeBron or Amare over here in their prime is very, very slim. These guys don't see the European League as being anywhere near as prestigious as the NBA title. But, money talks, and if a team offered LeBron or Wade or whatever star name you want to throw out there an obscene contract, it would be hard to say no, especially with all the perks that come with playing there.

Given the current exchange rate, how hard would it be to walk away from a 5-year, 55€ million deal (5-year, $133 million) while having a house and car provided for you?

That's tough to say no to.

When rudy fernandez was considering coming over last off season, he had an equlivant of a 63million/3-4 years offered to him by CSKA Moscow. He will be playing at the rookie scale for around 1.2 million.

One point I have made before is what I have found in both rudy and Peteri Koponen (both portland overseas prospects). They use the word of "drea". It is a dream for them to be in the NBA. I know that many of these clubs may now offer 2+ million Euro net salaries, but unless you are able to change the perceptions of the NBA as the league to be in and it is a dream for many of these players to be there. Where all the little kiddies dream to play, you will only attract those looking for the big bucks or the marginal players. These perceptions would have to entirely change before you would really have a mass exidus to Europe. I really feel that this is why, unless an entire generation of NBA dreamers are turned, that the NBA is safe and will probably stay the dominant league for a least a generation.

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:08 pm**

so nachbar is the highest paid player in europe? LOL why couldn't they have offered josh smith that deal and upped it to like 8 or 9 mill euros a year?

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:16 pm**

Zyme wrote:
SA37 wrote:
Lakers_4_Life wrote:Well Panathinaikos gave Dominique what is equal to a $17 million contract today for 1 year back in 1996. It was always said they wanted him to sign for a lot of years (5 years) but he would only sign for one. So it's not without precedence at least for Panathinaikos that they might offer some huge contract to the right NBA player.

I can't think of any other Euro teams that gave out such enormous contracts in the past as you are talking about to attract the types of NBA players you mention. But the thing is, we have obviously entered into a new era of salaries in European basketball. Just a couple years ago if someone would have said that what has happened this off season was actually going to happen, they would have even been laughed out of a European basketball forum.

It's like I've said in other threads teams like Panathinaikos and Olympiacos has 2-3 million euro budgets just 4 years or so ago. Now they are spending that on single players.

Well, that is why I was kind of "thinking out loud" at what the possibilities might be down the road.

I know these clubs are incredibly rich, which is why you can see silly articles like Real Madrid reportedly being willing to throw 100€ million for Ronaldo and then pay him stupid amounts of money (reportedly Madrid were willing to offer Ronaldo a 5-year, 75€ million deal).

The thing is, since basketball doesn't have the popularity or generate the revenue that football does, you have to wonder if it makes sense to drop the kind of money it would take to get one of those guys over here, particularly in their prime.

I am still convinced Europe's chances of pulling a Wade or LeBron or Amare over here in their prime is very, very slim. These guys don't see the European League as being anywhere near as prestigious as the NBA title. But, money talks, and if a team offered LeBron or Wade or whatever star name you want to throw out there an obscene contract, it would be hard to say no, especially with all the perks that come with playing there.

Given the current exchange rate, how hard would it be to walk away from a 5-year, 55€ million deal (5-year, $133 million) while having a house and car provided for you?

That's tough to say no to.

When rudy fernandez was considering coming over last off season, he had an equlivant of a 63million/3-4 years offered to him by CSKA Moscow. He will be playing at the rookie scale for around 1.2 million.

One point I have made before is what I have found in both rudy and Peteri Koponen (both portland overseas prospects). They use the word of "drea". It is a dream for them to be in the NBA. I know that many of these clubs may now offer 2+ million Euro net salaries, but unless you are able to change the perceptions of the NBA as the league to be in and it is a dream for many of these players to be there. Where all the little kiddies dream to play, you will only attract those looking for the big bucks or the marginal players. These perceptions would have to entirely change before you would really have a mass exidus to Europe. I really feel that this is why, unless an entire generation of NBA dreamers are turned, that the NBA is safe and will probably stay the dominant league for a least a generation.

Well European players base their view of the NBA largely on what country they are from. A guy from Finland doesn't have much basketball in his country or even anywhere near his country. And just to go to a big Euroleague club is as big a change as going to the NBA.

A big player from Spain views the NBA differently than a lot of players from other countries in Europe because several Spanish players have gotten good minutes in the NBA recently.

However, if you were to go Eastern Europe, the Balkans, Greece, Lithuania, etc. etc, the view that a European basketball star has of the NBA is not nearly the same thing. I think they days of Lithuanians, Russians, Serbs, Croats, Greeks, etc. "dreaming" of the NBA are long, long over.

Slovenian players if they think thy can make it will want too also come to the NBA but if they see some other ones get deals like Nachbar that will be a long forgotten "dream" as well. And really in the case of Rudy Fernandez I think he is trying to make a big splash like Gasol did in the NBA.

If he doesn't I would be 100% he would grab that offer CSKA gave him as soon as his 2 mandatory years in the NBA are up.

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:19 pm**

Does anyone have any information on these rich Isiah Thomas like European owners and whether or not they're actually making a profit?

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:22 pm**

One more thing to consider...

It is only the last 10 years that international players are coming here in bulk. Then boom we have the first American switching ponds.

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:29 pm**

jefe wrote:
22 players in Europe are currently making equal to the full NBA MLE and 13 players in Europe are currently making MORE than the full NBA MLE.

Wow, when you look at those underwhelming numbers (only 22 players on the entire continent make the average NBA salary) and the underwhelming talent on that list (particularly the players that have spent time in the NBA), I think together they should assuage the alarmist posts/fears connected to the Childress signing.

Funny, no one is being an alarmist. Some are just calling the trends. It is those people are in denial of the trends that think that way.

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:50 pm**

Well, I wouldn't call a singular event a "trend," but I would call the idea that the Euroleague (and European leagues) will be signing prime, top-tier American-born talent in bulk in the near future - and thereby relugating the NBA to a second-tier league - an alarmist fear.

...but that's just me.

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 6:59 pm**

NetsForce wrote:Does anyone have any information on these rich Isiah Thomas like European owners and whether or not they're actually making a profit?

in europe we dont make profit, we are payed by the state like uwe boll and we ride in unicorns

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:13 pm**

Fran Vasquez wrote:
NetsForce wrote:Does anyone have any information on these rich Isiah Thomas like European owners and whether or not they're actually making a profit?

in europe we dont make profit, we are payed by the state like uwe boll and we ride in unicorns

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:42 pm**

Lakers_4_Life wrote:Since there is a lot of debate about this topic right now I just wanted to post this for everyone's information. Keep in mind the euro is worth about 1.6 US dollars currently and also keep in mind that these amounts are NET contracts, not gross amounts listed like NBA contracts are listed in gross amounts. A 2 million euros contract listed here is equal to the full NBA MLE. Because the exchange rate is about 1.6 dollars = 1 euro and because of the difference between net and gross salaries. Because NBA contracts are gross and these are net.

The average tax rate for state and federal taxes across all the NBA cities came to 42% tax rate for NBA player salaries. This is the federal tax bracket of the average NBA salary and the average state tax across all NBA cities. Thus, a full NBA MLE contract of about $5.5 million gross salary is about the same as a 2.0 million euros net salary.

Keep in mind many people here keep arguing that players would still pay taxes in Europe. These salaries in Europe are the after tax amount. That is all it means. The net salary. It's just the NBA reports their salaries as gross. So yes, even though a guy like Lynn Greer still has to pay US federal taxes out of his Euro salary, you do NOT deduct taxes from the amount listed here because this is his AFTER TAX salary that is listed in Europe.

Do you have links for the fact that these are all after tax salaries?

Posted: **Wed Jul 23, 2008 8:31 pm**

I don't trust much those salaries the Lakerfan guy has posted. He's been exaggerating amounts for several days now, and even if I recognize a good number of correct amounts, I'm having a hard time believing he hasn't made up others.

For example, any link for Splitter's salary?

NetsForce wrote:Does anyone have any information on these rich Isiah Thomas like European owners and whether or not they're actually making a profit?

Those owners are losing millions, eight-digit amounts, for sure. For example, just consider Khimki has a 3500-seats arena, ridiculously low TV contracts or barely sell any merchandising. I would be surprised if Khimki earns 15% of what they spend.