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Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 9:05 pm
by asdfgh
It's not just that. I don't know what the motives of the russian teams are but in Greece, the Panathinaikos owners for example had been trying for almost 30 years to get the Panathinaikos soccer team (which is actually profitable) and they were only recently allowed to buy some shares. By spending money on the basketball team they increase the visibility of their other companies and they are able to strike business deals that they wouldn't be able to do otherwise.
Buying a sports team, even if it's not necessarily profitable is a good way of putting your name out there in the business world and making the presence of your other companies known. Most NBA teams lose money too.
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 3:59 am
by dingclancy
jefe wrote:Well, I wouldn't call a singular event a "trend," but I would call the idea that the Euroleague (and European leagues) will be signing prime, top-tier American-born talent in bulk in the near future - and thereby relugating the NBA to a second-tier league - an alarmist fear.
...but that's just me.
I do not think that will happen though. It's just that Euroleague is a legit competitor to player's services now and having legit NBA talent leave is just sad.
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:01 am
by dingclancy
Besides even in this NBA socialism - the winners and losers are the same. It has always been the Lakers/Spurs/Pistons/Celtics. Why should a highly profitable franchise clean up the mess of poorly run teams?
If NBA was unregulated we won't be seeing Sonics leave for Oklahoma, Camby traded for a second rounder, and Childress not getting fair market value (since the market is distorted). Trade market, FA market - they are all distorted. Childress is like a Russian fleeing the Soviet Union for the U.S. - "greener pastures"
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:03 am
by greenbeans
Bulls,Sixers. . . .
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:19 am
by lukeridenour
im kind of buzzed but i think the nba is going to consist of superstars and low level talent. everyone in the middle will be gone.
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:31 am
by Cybulski37
lukeridenour wrote:im kind of buzzed but i think the nba is going to consist of superstars and low level talent. everyone in the middle will be gone.
Everyone in the middle can't be gone because of the limit on the # of Americans on each team.
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:04 am
by Tirion
asdfgh wrote:It's not just that. I don't know what the motives of the russian teams.
In soviet Russia teams don't need motives.
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:23 am
by DelaneyRudd
So the system is turning more Soccer-ish. The big teams there are starting to do Beckham like stunt signings to shake things up, but just like MLS can not sign a real prime superstar, neither can these big money teams. Right now they are in the right place at the right time with the world monetary structure. They must become profitable enough to justify these numbers. It won't last if this is playboy rich guy spending. Europe needs more TV money and bigger stadiums with corporate flow like the US in order to keep it up. I think Spain can do it. The Moscow teams are running on conspicuous consumption and will not be able to do this forever. Greece is in the middle.
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:01 pm
by Lakers_4_Life
OK, so now with the Garbajosa and Childress signings, 15 players in Europe are making above the full NBA MLE. There is no doubt that every NBA player's agent is taking notice of this.
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:04 pm
by Lakers_4_Life
DelaneyRudd wrote:So the system is turning more Soccer-ish. The big teams there are starting to do Beckham like stunt signings to shake things up, but just like MLS can not sign a real prime superstar, neither can these big money teams. Right now they are in the right place at the right time with the world monetary structure. They must become profitable enough to justify these numbers. It won't last if this is playboy rich guy spending. Europe needs more TV money and bigger stadiums with corporate flow like the US in order to keep it up. I think Spain can do it. The Moscow teams are running on conspicuous consumption and will not be able to do this forever. Greece is in the middle.
As already mentioned in some threads here, Euroleague will franchise 16 teams in a couple years and they must ALL have the revenue, TV deals, merchandise, and 10,000 permanent seat minimum arenas that are complete with all NBA technology and amenities. This is an actual rule to be a Euroleague franchise. Up until now the Euroleague did not even have any franchises.
All of the things you mention are coming within 2 years.
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:06 pm
by Malinhion
Within 2 years, when the euroleague will be superior to the NBA, LeBron will play for CSKA, and Wade will play for Olympiakos, right?
Put away your crystal ball, kid.
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:14 pm
by Lakers_4_Life
Malinhion wrote:Within 2 years, when the euroleague will be superior to the NBA, LeBron will play for CSKA, and Wade will play for Olympiakos, right?
Put away your crystal ball, kid.
Those changes are rules announced by Euroleague, just like that they changed game rules to NBA rules starting next season. Panathinaikos is hiring NBA trainers and building NBA workout facilities, etc. Why would all of these changes be made?
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:15 am
by Lakers_4_Life
Just to add it's now 26 players making at least the full NBA MLE in Europe. JR Holden and Darjus Lavrinovic are added in that group now.
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:05 am
by El Turco
Lakers_4_Life wrote:DelaneyRudd wrote:So the system is turning more Soccer-ish. The big teams there are starting to do Beckham like stunt signings to shake things up, but just like MLS can not sign a real prime superstar, neither can these big money teams. Right now they are in the right place at the right time with the world monetary structure. They must become profitable enough to justify these numbers. It won't last if this is playboy rich guy spending. Europe needs more TV money and bigger stadiums with corporate flow like the US in order to keep it up. I think Spain can do it. The Moscow teams are running on conspicuous consumption and will not be able to do this forever. Greece is in the middle.
As already mentioned in some threads here, Euroleague will franchise 16 teams in a couple years and they must ALL have the revenue, TV deals, merchandise, and 10,000 permanent seat minimum arenas that are complete with all NBA technology and amenities. This is an actual rule to be a Euroleague franchise. Up until now the Euroleague did not even have any franchises.
All of the things you mention are coming within 2 years.
Lets say this 16 team franchise league happens. That means there are going to be at least 2-3 teams from Spain, Greece, Russia and Italy given the amount of investment teams of those countries make. Add that possibly one team each from countries such as Germany, Turkey, Serbia etc. This will still leave out 10-15 countries which euroleague could ve tap into as a potential fanbase.
Secondarily, it is pretty obvious that euroleague gets good percentage of its fanbase from soccer fans that support the same team in respective sports. new 16 franchise league will leave many of these clubs out since not only there arent enough spots but the some of the available spots will be taken by corporate sponsored clubs. this will make fans of these clubs lose interest in this newly created league.
how will this help euroleague s popularity again? because anybody that has any clue about economics knows that no popularity= no revenue, no matter how many billionaires are around.
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:13 am
by Lakers_4_Life
ElTurco wrote:Lakers_4_Life wrote:DelaneyRudd wrote:So the system is turning more Soccer-ish. The big teams there are starting to do Beckham like stunt signings to shake things up, but just like MLS can not sign a real prime superstar, neither can these big money teams. Right now they are in the right place at the right time with the world monetary structure. They must become profitable enough to justify these numbers. It won't last if this is playboy rich guy spending. Europe needs more TV money and bigger stadiums with corporate flow like the US in order to keep it up. I think Spain can do it. The Moscow teams are running on conspicuous consumption and will not be able to do this forever. Greece is in the middle.
As already mentioned in some threads here, Euroleague will franchise 16 teams in a couple years and they must ALL have the revenue, TV deals, merchandise, and 10,000 permanent seat minimum arenas that are complete with all NBA technology and amenities. This is an actual rule to be a Euroleague franchise. Up until now the Euroleague did not even have any franchises.
All of the things you mention are coming within 2 years.
Lets say this 16 team franchise league happens. That means there are going to be at least 2-3 teams from Spain, Greece, Russia and Italy given the amount of investment teams of those countries make. Add that possibly one team each from countries such as Germany, Turkey, Serbia etc. This will still leave out 10-15 countries which euroleague could ve tap into as a potential fanbase.
Secondarily, it is pretty obvious that euroleague gets good percentage of its fanbase from soccer fans that support the same team in respective sports. new 16 franchise league will leave many of these clubs out since not only there arent enough spots but the some of the available spots will be taken by corporate sponsored clubs. this will make fans of these clubs lose interest in this newly created league.
how will this help euroleague s popularity again? because anybody that has any clue about economics knows that no popularity= no revenue, no matter how many billionaires are around.
There will be 16 permanent Euroleague franchises. These 16 clubs will have to adhere to these rules. There will also be 8 wild card places each year. Those teams won't have to. If they want to get a franchise tag they will have to meet the criteria though. Otherwise they will only be in the league from year to year based on how they perform in the domestic leagues and such.
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 3:50 am
by Basketball1
Lakers_4_Life wrote:Current list of the top 25 paid professional basketball players in Europe
When player salaries are equal per season, the players are ranked based on the length of their contracts.
Buyout amounts listed for Sarunas Jasikevicius and Vassilis Spanoulis are the amounts of money netted by the player in salary from the NBA after their contract releases. They are not an amount of money paid to the NBA team to release them.
Top 28 current salaries (players making above the full NBA MLE currently are in bold print with an asterisk, players making equal to the full NBA MLE are in bold print with no asterisk):
1. Bostjan Nachbar* (Dynamo Moscow): 6 million euros per year (3 years 18 million euros)
2. Josh Childress* (Olympiacos Piraeus): 4.5 million euros per year (3 years 13.5 million euros)
3. Sarunas Jasikevicius*(Panathinaikos Athens): 3.73 million euros per year (3 years 11.2 million euros) (3 years 10.5 million euros salary, plus 700K euros buyout salary)
4. Theodoros Papaloukas* (Olympiacos Piraeus). 3.5 million euros per year (3 years 10.5 million euros)
5. Jorge Garbajosa* (Khimki): 3.0 million euros per year (2 years 6 million euros)
6. Carlos Delfino* (Khimki): 2.833 million euros per year (3 years 8.5 million euros)
7. Matjaz Smodis* (CSKA Moscow): 2.5 million euros per year (3 years 7.5 million euros)
8. Ramunas Siskauskas* (CSKA Moscow): 2.5 million euros per year (2 years 5 million euros)
9. Juan Carlos Navarro* (Barcelona): 2.4 million euros per year (5 years 12 million euros)
10. Fran Vazquez* (Barcelona): 2.333 million euros per year (3 years 7 million euros)
11. Arvydas Macijauskas* (Olympiacos Piraeus): 2.25 million euros per year (4 years 9 million euros)
12. Nikola Vujcic* (Olympiacos Piraeus). 2.25 million euros per year (2 years 4.5 million euros)
12. Lynn Greer*(Olympiacos Piraeus): 2.25 million euros per year (2 years 4.5 million euros)
14. Nikos Zisis* (CSKA Moscow): 2.2 million euros per year (3 years 6.6 million euros)
15. Vassilis Spanoulis* (Panathinaikos Athens) 2.076 million euros per year (3 years 6.230 million euros) (3 years 5.5 million euros salary, plus 730K euros buyout salary)
16. Felipe Reyes (Real Madrid): 2.0 million euros per year (5 years 10 million euros)
17. Viktor Khryapa (CSKA Moscow): 2.0 million euros per year (4.5 years 9 million euros)
18. David Andersen (Barcelona): 2.0 million euros per year (3 years 6 million euros)
18. Darjus Lavrinovic (Dynamo Moscow) 2.0 million euros per year (3 years 6 million euros)
18. Aleksey Savrasenko (CSKA Moscow) 2.0 million euros per year (3 years 6 million euros)
18. Lazaros Papadopoulos (Real Madrid): 2.0 million euros per year (3 years 6 million euros)
18. Zoran Planinic (CSKA Moscow): 2.0 million euros per year (3 years 6 million euros)
18. Sergei Monia (Dynamo Moscow): 2.0 million euros per year (3 years 6 million euros)
18. Tiago Splitter (TAU Vitoria): 2.0 million euros per year (3 years 6 million euros)
18. Ersan İlyasova (Barcelona): 2.0 million euros per year (3 years 6 million euros)
18. John Robert Holden (CSKA Moscow): 2.0 million euros per year (3 years 6 million euros)
27. Dimitris Diamantidis (Panathinaikos Athens): 1.9 million euros per year (3 years 5.7 million euros)
28. Mike Batiste (Panathinaikos Athens): 1.833 million euros per year (3 years 5.5 million euros)
It took a hell of a long time to track all of this down and to get actual amounts in some cases because of conflicting reports and also to pinpoint some issues like contract buyouts and how everything works. These are the final figures though once these guys signed contracts, which is not to be confused with some sources that list different figures, but were reporting negotiations or offers, not the actual signed amounts.
Since there is a lot of debate about this topic right now I just wanted to post this for everyone's information. Keep in mind the euro is worth about 1.6 US dollars currently and also keep in mind that these amounts are NET contracts, not gross amounts listed like NBA contracts are listed in gross amounts. A 2 million euros contract listed here is equal to the full NBA MLE. Because the exchange rate is about 1.6 dollars = 1 euro and because of the difference between net and gross salaries. Because NBA contracts are gross and these are net.
The average tax rate for state and federal taxes across all the NBA cities came to 42% tax rate for NBA player salaries. This is the federal tax bracket of the average NBA salary and the average state tax across all NBA cities. Thus, a full NBA MLE contract of about $5.5 million gross salary is about the same as a 2.0 million euros net salary.
Keep in mind many people here keep arguing that players would still pay taxes in Europe. These salaries in Europe are the after tax amount. That is all it means. The net salary. It's just the NBA reports their salaries as gross. So yes, even though a guy like Lynn Greer still has to pay US federal taxes out of his Euro salary, you do NOT deduct taxes from the amount listed here because this is his AFTER TAX salary that is listed in Europe.
26 players in Europe are currently making equal to the full NBA MLE and 15 players in Europe are currently making MORE than the full NBA MLE.
So we have these European players making equal to the full NBA MLE:
Felipe Reyes
Viktor Khryapa
David Andersen
Aleksey Savrasenko
Lazaros Papadopoulos
Zoran Planinic
Sergei Monia
Tiago Splitter
Ersan İlyasova
Darjus Lavrinovic
JR Holden
And we have these European players making more than the full NBA MLE:
Bostjan Nachbar
Josh Childress
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Theodoros Papaloukas
Jorge Garbajosa
Carlos Delfino
Matjaz Smodis
Ramunas Siskauskas
Juan Carlos Navarro
Fran Vazquez
Arvydas Macijauskas
Nikola Vujcic
Lynn Greer
Nikos Zisis
Vassilis Spanoulis
OK, so now that we have some better grasp of the salary situation, let's debate how we all think this will affect the NBA.
Who on this list has the potential to be an NBA star? I'd rather have a Travis Outlaw or
even Luke Walton than any of these "Euro Superstars"
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 4:18 am
by Don Draper
Any combination of any of those players listed would be the worst team in the NBA every season.
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 5:18 am
by SabasRevenge!
obinna wrote:Any combination of any of those players listed would be the worst team in the NBA every season.
QFT
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:37 am
by damo[23]
Why the xenophobia about the Euroleague?
Euroleague basketball is not very old - I mean most European countries havent been playing much longer than the late 80's - at best. We dont have school systems or college systems - certainly not with any real coaching - it takes people actually wanting to play the game to go along to local clubs - if there are any - and play there. Which eliminates any possibility of finding diamonds in the rough at young ages and what not.
This is just the first step. Sure the level isnt great - but that hasnt stopped these teams competing at international level, something that America, Olympics pending, hasnt dominated in years.
These players going over is so multi faceted; its not just overly rich owners trying to win a few more games; it also helps raise a bit more interest into the game - seeing NBA players come in will help pull a bit more media and fan attention and start to build it up.
Obviously we should start to be looking at more players come over and actually increase the level of the league.
Yes we get it, the NBA is the best Basketball league in the world - but in comparsion to Europe its been farming talent since the 50's, it has massive programs starting from pre-teens - opposed to Europe where players look to go "pro" coming out of their teens half the time.
Fortunatly basketball awareness is starting to rise in Europe - we see talk of Ricky Rubio and what not [I dont care about his talent - its getting media attention all round the world which is the point] andthanks to Stern we have NBA exibition games in Europe.
Bring this sport up from 1 major league and a few minor ones to a good few more - is just going to be great for the sport - what is lost from America - even if it is MLE level players - should just help more Europeans in the long run get to that and just send them back.
I know its new to Americans to have their leagues not just be domestic based - but in Europe your used to things like Football where there is no "1 NBA" there is 8 or 9 - across the world - all with similar talent. Basketball, since it is the best sport ever made - should aim to be doing this. In the long run it wont dilute the play - it with strengthen it - rather than have 1 Dirk - we have a few coming from Germany, a couple more Gasol's and what not - and then alot more tier down players.
This will probably be slated off by most posters as "go buy a clue euroleague sucks"; but these are also probably the same people that claim domestic league winners are infact world champions.
Overall a world of basketball is better than NBA and College; it wont happen over night and these sort of things are the first steps needed to get there.
Re: List Of Euro Players Making At Or Above NBA MLE
Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:40 am
by zwbgr
obinna wrote:Any combination of any of those players listed would be the worst team in the NBA every season.
LOL, you completely missed the point.
Point is that marginal players get more money than they would in NBA. You can see from that that bigger names would be paid more than in NBA too.
But don't be too afraid. In EU there is only a few teams, lets say 8, who culd reach ammount of salary NBA teams have.