GT: Charlotte vs Grizz 2/10 7PM EST

[JDR720]

Cliff is likable and generally says the right things. That goes a long way.

[LofJ]

Cliff is likable and generally says the right things. That goes a long way.

I think Clifford should have a role in the front office if he wants it, but as a HC? Nope, that ship has left the dock for the last time.

[JDR720]

Steve Clifford for GM.

Who'd he hire for HC?

[MPM]

Glass half full Sunday. Micic continues to perform at a high level for us for the next couple of years while mentoring Melo, Mann proves a valuable combo guard, and Bertrans actually plays his way into staying next year as a Duncan Robinson type of 10-12 ppg bench sniper. Hayward continues to struggle with injury and never meaningfully contributes to OKC. Grant helps reset the culture in CLT while giving consistent defensive effort and 10/6 from the bench during the course of his contract, PJ remains wildy erratic, Luka declines his player option in 26/27 and we grab a solid lotto pick from DAL. I know, I know. Let me enjoy dreamy for a bit.

[LofJ]

Steve Clifford for GM.

Who'd he hire for HC?

Clifford is an old head, so he'd probably hire someone with a decent amount of experience. I think he'd go for Bud, Stotts, and maybe even Jeff Van Gundy since they're so close.

[JDR720]

Glass half full Sunday. Micic continues to perform at a high level for us for the next couple of years while mentoring Melo, Mann proves a valuable combo guard, and Bertrans actually plays his way into staying next year as a Duncan Robinson type of 10-12 ppg bench sniper. Hayward continues to struggle with injury and never meaningfully contributes to OKC. Grant helps reset the culture in CLT while giving consistent defensive effort and 10/6 from the bench during the course of his contract, PJ remains wildy erratic, Luka declines his player option in 26/27 and we grab a solid lotto pick from DAL. I know, I know. Let me enjoy dreamy for a bit.

Don't forget Rozier in Miami. He's been pretty terrible so far.

Need to start scouting who we're taking in the lottery these next few years.... but not with our picks.

[lmcguir15]

Steve Clifford for GM.

Who'd he hire for HC?

Clifford is an old head, so he'd probably hire someone with a decent amount of experience. I think he'd go for Bud, Stotts, and maybe even Jeff Van Gundy since they're so close.

I would say Bud is the dream at this point. Incredible coach that has been in high leverage situations, won a lot of regular season games, stresses having shooters on the floor. Expectations go up when you hire him and I think that's a good thing.

[Braggins]

Steve Clifford for GM.

Who'd he hire for HC?

Clifford is an old head, so he'd probably hire someone with a decent amount of experience. I think he'd go for Bud, Stotts, and maybe even Jeff Van Gundy since they're so close.

I don't think Clifford should have any role with the team moving forward.

If they moved him to GM and he hired Jeff or Stan Van Gundy to coach I would permanently boycott this franchise (although that would admittedly be the most hilarious outcome possible because of how insane and on the nose it is).

[SWedd523]

Cliff's time here needs to be done. As does Mitch and every other nepotism holdover from the previous regime.

Top to bottom changeover. One win where the feel-good meter is high because the new guys played well and Crash was in the building doesn't change a thing.

[MasterIchiro]

this game prove just how **** pathetic mitch's bench was. we grabbed 4 dudes buried on okc/dal bench, all 4 who immediately put all our scrubs out of the rotation

A reflection of the pathetic budget directed by outgoing ownership and possibly even requested by new owners looking for bottomed out expenses on a purchase.

Too much of the budget was allocated to Rozier who ran the bench as PG2. We saw what happens when hero ball is the norm. The playmaking, sharing the ball, the movement from JB's more successful system vanished.

Now we see what happens when you bring in IQ and playmakers on the cheap in a market where playmaking was grossly undervalued.

Micic is a huge upgrade to the overall offense compared to Rozier. In his post game, he said something to the effect of (paraphrasing), "As individuals we can't all be Steph Curry or Luka, but we can find ways to win and play better as a team if we use passing to our advantage. Then we can compete better".

He's very thoughtful and more a leader than Rozier will ever be.

He's the guy I want here mentoring Topic if we are so fortunate to land in position to select him through the lottery. Micic is a less-skilled grownup version of Topic who already plays with veteran poise. The focus is on team, not on "me". I would honestly start Topic and shift LaMelo off ball as secondary playmaker. Topic is that smart, and that purely focused on team, influenced by Jokic.

Kupchak couldn't have identified a more perfect-fitting group of smart players who know how to play, know where to be, see the court, share the ball, and play unselfish basketball.

The edict from ownership was to change the culture but it was not the owners who identified the targets or who negotiated top-2 protection on the Dallas pick for PJ Washington (a premium greater than the one Dallas paid for HOF Kyrie Irving the deadline preceding this one). We also don't know if MJ ever granted Kupchak permission to unload Rozier last deadline or in any recent deadline.

Furthermore, the market dynamics shifted drastically this deadline compared to last.

There was a lag on buying pressure given recency of the play-in tournament. This one Charlotte acted as 1 of 5 sellers sitting pretty surrounded by 25 motivated buyers.

Last deadline owners fronted a pu pu platter of second round picks. Even if MJ (who signed the Rozier checks from day one) had urged Kupchak to unload Mike's iso pet project, Kupchak was not in a position yet to leverage Rozier's scoring for a loosely protected 1st round pick plus long term cap space required to pay real bench players.

You can't just sit here and dismiss a seasoned GM's ability to read a market year over year. This trade deadline was an A+ one, negotiated by a vet GM licensed by ambitious owners who bought a product low like they do on Wall Street. Kupchak was behind the targeting of the players who will serve on the new bench and on the picks and protections.

Fans really think owners who managed hedge funds know how to do all that ****?

The other thing that irks me about your slant against this GM (who has built a team to win sustainably) is that he just led his scouting department on the selection of Brandon Miller, a pick we all have grown to love.

And you likely want to fire the guy who made it.

If Mitch isn't ready to voluntarily retire, the owners will want him presiding over the 2024 draft. And if Mitch does want to retire, the owners should want him to be a voice in the war room.

Where are all Cho's picks, huh? Every single one of them bust.

Your faction clings to Bouk and Kai.

How do Cho's failed drafts and colossal busts compare to LaMelo, Miller, Mark, NSJ, Miles???

Which Cho longterm contracts generated loosely protected first round picks and long term cap?

In summary, Miller, LaMelo, Miles are all more capable scorers than Rozier. And we can use the long term cap to bring in guys like Micic who may not amass Rozier's counting stats, but know how to play the **** game in the modern era.

[MasterIchiro]

If you like Mcic you will love Topic. Serbia is cranking out unselfish players. It's infectious just as hero ball was under Terry.

Hornets should have demanded Jovic over the 1st round draft pick in the Rozier trade he will explode once he gets away from Miami and there small ball.

Pardon me?

[JMAC3]

Definitely a top 3 game of the year to watch as a Hornets fan, which feels kind of sad because it was a shorthanded Grizz team.

Miller and Miles were great, it felt like both had a breath of fresh air with the offense not needing them to play hero ball the entire game. Miles 11/13, Miller 7/9.. love it. First Quarter was rough, but we managed to keep it close enough for our guys to find their comfort and we played a great next 3 quarters.

Honestly everyone played great, except maybe Cody and Richards who came out sleepwalking. We only played 4 prev players and 5 new guys. That is wild to think about. Mann was great to start, his aggressiveness and playmaking stood out right away, Micic obviously stole the show and is now top 10 in jersey sales in NBA. Bertans was doing Bertans stuff including a heat check so bad Nick Young cringed. Seth didn't do much in boxscore but he just seemed to be in the right spot all game long. Grant was great, especially his defense on JJJ, who was having his way with everyone else.

I would say play the same starters and rotations next game, let guys get used to playing with one another.

[amcoolio]

yall are crazy if you want to retain Cliff after one game. the Hornets have one of the worst point differentials ever. nice feel good story, but they already tuned him out. Need a total rehaul still

[MasterIchiro]

Cliff's time here needs to be done. As does Mitch and every other nepotism holdover from the previous regime.

Top to bottom changeover. One win where the feel-good meter is high because the new guys played well and Crash was in the building doesn't change a thing.

Look, the GM reallocated money owed Rozier and Hayward that limited the bench to shoestring budget players like McGowens, Thor, Ish, Mensah, Leaky Black.

I do agree we need a new coach who can implement a ball movement modern offense, but I would like to see how LaMelo, Miles, Miller, Mark, NSJ and 2024 lottery pick look playing with a real bench that we can suddenly afford instead of the above mentioned group who I believe weighed down the core talent in the wake of all the injuries. They muddied the waters on any clear, clean assessment of the GM who brought together these new bench upgrades and draft capital that surely augments the core talent.

I think LaMelo can become a star.

Miller looks like one as well.

Miles can win an All-Star spot with his talent at some point, if Julius Randle can. Miles is a smarter version of him and a better athlete who can dual as a full-court threat.

Mark starting over Nick getting feeds from Mcic or Mann instead of Frank or Ish.

Nick C2 over Mensah.

Grant Williams a strong, tough small-ball 5 and leader over soft (albeit superior skilled) PJ Wsdhington who keeps his mouth shut.

Mcic running the bench over Rozier.

Bertans spacing instead of Thor iso.

Tre Mann as your connective scorer instead of ballstopper and dummy Bryce McGowens and irredeemable bad attitude Bouknight.

We're loaded with picks and core talent (including Mann from the infamous 2021 draft).

OKC and Dallas were sitting on a mountain of undervalued assets.

Kupchak is a criminal.

[NCHeels2008]

Glass half full Sunday. Micic continues to perform at a high level for us for the next couple of years while mentoring Melo, Mann proves a valuable combo guard, and Bertrans actually plays his way into staying next year as a Duncan Robinson type of 10-12 ppg bench sniper. Hayward continues to struggle with injury and never meaningfully contributes to OKC. Grant helps reset the culture in CLT while giving consistent defensive effort and 10/6 from the bench during the course of his contract, PJ remains wildy erratic, Luka declines his player option in 26/27 and we grab a solid lotto pick from DAL. I know, I know. Let me enjoy dreamy for a bit.

I want PJ to thrive, he more than paid his dues in Charlotte just for his rotation spot to be jerked around the last 2 seasons to placate a woman beater

[Braggins]

This is kind of where I'm expecting the rotation to end up if they ever get fully healthy this year.

starters: LaMelo ~ Martin ~ Miller ~ Miles ~ Williams
bench5: Micic ~ Mann ~ Grant ~ Bertans ~ Richards
depth: Curry ~ Bryce ~ Thor
gleague: NSJ ~ Bailey

[LofJ]

This is kind of where I'm expecting the rotation to end up if they ever get fully healthy this year.

starters: LaMelo ~ Martin ~ Miller ~ Miles ~ Williams
bench5: Micic ~ Mann ~ Grant ~ Bertans ~ Richards
depth: Curry ~ Bryce ~ Thor
gleague: NSJ ~ Bailey

Looking at this we really need some wings that can defend the perimeter. I think we should double up with both the draft and free agency. We also need a capable big man for Mark insurance. If we can accomplish that (as well as upgrading the coaching staff) we should make a massive jump in the standings next season (if healthy of course).

[MasterIchiro]

yall are crazy if you want to retain Cliff after one game. the Hornets have one of the worst point differentials ever. nice feel good story, but they already tuned him out. Need a total rehaul still

I'm actually surprised the new owners didn't order Kupchak to give him a pink slip, but can however accept a caretaker role to finish out the season amidst the turmoil and subsequent upheaval.

A generous non-action to say the least. The players may have given up and tuned out his voice/schemes but perhaps he's a player's coach and at least treats them with decency.

I'm more concerned with the next coach than with Clifford riding out the final guaranteed year on his coaching contract. The players must already know that option will not be picked up.

I wouldn't be opposed to a graceful exit to the front office for Clifford. I think he's a good judge of talent despite not knowing how to best optimize it on the floor.

[Braggins]

Spoiler:

This is kind of where I'm expecting the rotation to end up if they ever get fully healthy this year.

starters: LaMelo ~ Martin ~ Miller ~ Miles ~ Williams
bench5: Micic ~ Mann ~ Grant ~ Bertans ~ Richards
depth: Curry ~ Bryce ~ Thor
gleague: NSJ ~ Bailey

Looking at this we really need some wings that can defend the perimeter. I think we should double up with both the draft and free agency. We also need a capable big man for Mark insurance. If we can accomplish that (as well as upgrading the coaching staff) we should make a massive jump in the standings next season (if healthy of course).

I think Bertans is nice to have right now why they are riddled with injuries, but with a healthy roster I would prefer they just give those minutes to Thor for development and to add some defense. I don't have much faith in Thor at this point, but Id still like to see what he looked like on a somewhat functional team (hopefully).

[SWedd523]

You don't get to **** on the floor and ruin the carpet and then say "look how good I did" when you clean it up.

The stain is still there.