RealGM

Try different lineups?

Don't use the exact same substitution patterns every game, regardless of who has played well that night?

You're talking nonsense. Just put Plumlee in there and let the man eat.

"For three quarters, our ball movement was good. We do not have an iso-team. We are a pick-and-roll, ball-movement team. When that’s happening, we’re good. If we want to stand out there and pound the ball, it’s going to be hard against anybody.” - Coach Clifford

This is what you get with Clifford. Every night he has a cogent explanation for exactly why the team lost. So if he sees it why doesn't he call time out or a make a substitution to address the problem. Isn't this a Coaching problem? I'm sorry, I have Clifford Derangement Syndrome.

Snidely FC wrote:

"For three quarters, our ball movement was good. We do not have an iso-team. We are a pick-and-roll, ball-movement team. When that’s happening, we’re good. If we want to stand out there and pound the ball, it’s going to be hard against anybody.” - Coach Clifford

This is what you get with Clifford. Every night he has a cogent explanation for exactly why the team lost. So if he sees it why doesn't he call time out or a make a substitution to address the problem. Isn't this a Coaching problem? I'm sorry, I have Clifford Derangement Syndrome.

Well we really only have one guy capable of being the pick and roll ball handler right now. When he is out of the game that is a problem.

Ish and Frank can't shoot well enough, other teams just go under the screens. Miles and B Miller really don't handle or pass quite well enough. They can do it a little bit but if you ask them to run it all game teams are going to figure out you can trap these guys and turn them over.

Last game vs the pistons Miles is playing the ball handler role to start the 4th. Melo and Brandon are on the bench. Nick Smith is in the game playing the spot up shooter role.

You just can't ask Miles to be the pg and expect thing to go well, but if you do at least have all the other guys with high skill level in the game. If you ask Miles be the pg and put him on the floor with Thor, Richards, and Leaky he might as well try some one on one stuff.

Snidely FC wrote:

"For three quarters, our ball movement was good. We do not have an iso-team. We are a pick-and-roll, ball-movement team. When that’s happening, we’re good. If we want to stand out there and pound the ball, it’s going to be hard against anybody.” - Coach Clifford

This is what you get with Clifford. Every night he has a cogent explanation for exactly why the team lost. So if he sees it why doesn't he call time out or a make a substitution to address the problem. Isn't this a Coaching problem? I'm sorry, I have Clifford Derangement Syndrome.

This stuff is maddening. It's like he's bipolar. Like yeah, we agree with you Cliff. Good news, you're in charge of the ship so maybe direct your players to not do this?

I still can't get over the fact that Cliff played LaMelo, Ish and Frank together. You certainly can't suggest that's for defensive purposes so it must be offense... but it also certainly can't be for offense purposes... so like, is he purposely trying to lose and limit our ability to score and defend? Is he protesting Mitch's roster construction or the Terry trade? I can't think of a coherent explanation for that.

Rich4114 wrote:I still can't get over the fact that Cliff played LaMelo, Ish and Frank together. You certainly can't suggest that's for defensive purposes so it must be offense... but it also certainly can't be for offense purposes... so like, is he purposely trying to lose and limit our ability to score and defend? Is he protesting Mitch's roster construction or the Terry trade? I can't think of a coherent explanation for that.

Probably because we don't have good players. I mean he played Nick Smith Jr 17 mins who is 1% defender on EPM to shoot 2x and score 3 pts. I get mad when he plays Mensah, Ish and Thor together but at the same time there really isn't better options. Feel like his strategy is to win mins with starters and then just try to stay in the game with the bench, who he would play Terry with and let him just try to shoot and keep us afloat while Mensah, Ish and Thor stand around and think about how awful it would be to have the ball passed in their direction.

We got worse right now after trading Terry. Trading another rotation piece without adding a real guy is going to be asking him to make Chicken Salad without chicken.

JMAC3 wrote:

Rich4114 wrote:I still can't get over the fact that Cliff played LaMelo, Ish and Frank together. You certainly can't suggest that's for defensive purposes so it must be offense... but it also certainly can't be for offense purposes... so like, is he purposely trying to lose and limit our ability to score and defend? Is he protesting Mitch's roster construction or the Terry trade? I can't think of a coherent explanation for that.

Probably because we don't have good players. I mean he played Nick Smith Jr 17 mins who is 1% defender on EPM to shoot 2x and score 3 pts. I get mad when he plays Mensah, Ish and Thor together but at the same time there really isn't better options. Feel like his strategy is to win mins with starters and then just try to stay in the game with the bench, who he would play Terry with and let him just try to shoot and keep us afloat while Mensah, Ish and Thor stand around and think about how awful it would be to have the ball passed in their direction.

We got worse right now after trading Terry. Trading another rotation piece without adding a real guy is going to be asking him to make Chicken Salad without chicken.

Yeah bro.. but Det has even less chicken

GoBobs wrote:

JMAC3 wrote:

Rich4114 wrote:I still can't get over the fact that Cliff played LaMelo, Ish and Frank together. You certainly can't suggest that's for defensive purposes so it must be offense... but it also certainly can't be for offense purposes... so like, is he purposely trying to lose and limit our ability to score and defend? Is he protesting Mitch's roster construction or the Terry trade? I can't think of a coherent explanation for that.

Probably because we don't have good players. I mean he played Nick Smith Jr 17 mins who is 1% defender on EPM to shoot 2x and score 3 pts. I get mad when he plays Mensah, Ish and Thor together but at the same time there really isn't better options. Feel like his strategy is to win mins with starters and then just try to stay in the game with the bench, who he would play Terry with and let him just try to shoot and keep us afloat while Mensah, Ish and Thor stand around and think about how awful it would be to have the ball passed in their direction.

We got worse right now after trading Terry. Trading another rotation piece without adding a real guy is going to be asking him to make Chicken Salad without chicken.

Yeah bro.. but Det has even less chicken

Do they? Cade, Ivey, Duren have played more games this year than Lamelo, Miles and Mark. Burks, Hayes and Sasser are probably a better three reserve guards than we have and they still have Ausar, Beef Stew and Bogi.

I mean fully healthy I think we beat them because Melo is the best player either team has but we are nowhere near to fully healthy ever.

Eventually, whatever the bad luck, bad players, or bad coaching (we have all three), the bad coach has to go. It’s time.

Players seem to be signaling to the front office/owners to dump this guy. They refuse to invest, and why should they? They get to compare him to James Borrego and they know damn well there's a difference. The iso culture is out of control. His teams are also worse defensively. 4 years with JB and you pull the plug because of 2 play-in games. 4 years. 2 games. You preached continuity. You kept the roster static. Never gave him any rim protection.

So you fire him, break up the continuity, give Cliff 2 rim protectors (he plays them all 48 minutes), offense falls off the map, they go iso, they stop caring about defense.

43 wins under Borrego with largely the same players.

Sure didn't look like they quit on Cliff when they beat Utah the other night. I don't think that's what's going on.

yosemiteben wrote:Sure didn't look like they quit on Cliff when they beat Utah the other night. I don't think that's what's going on.

Are you from the future!?

yosemiteben wrote:Sure didn't look like they quit on Cliff when they beat Utah the other night. I don't think that's what's going on.

The effect of losing a leader like Terry Rozier perhaps.

GoBobs wrote:

yosemiteben wrote:Sure didn't look like they quit on Cliff when they beat Utah the other night. I don't think that's what's going on.

Are you from the future!?

Whoops, my bad, mean Minnesota?

I know it's only 3 games but have to put this out there, is Clifford actually a good coach? He gets his hands on seasoned vets and a point guard rotation and suddenly the team's cooking. Best of all, imo, for someone with a rep for refusing to play youngsters, has our prized rookie playing like he'll make an All-NBA team sooner rather than later.

wilson115 wrote:I know it's only 3 games but have to put this out there, is Clifford actually a good coach? He gets his hands on seasoned vets and a point guard rotation and suddenly the team's cooking. Best of all, imo, for someone with a rep for refusing to play youngsters, has our prized rookie playing like he'll make an All-NBA team sooner rather than later.

Important to remember we beat two pretty bad teams in Atl and Memphis. I do think Cliff is better than some say, but he also is very rigid in what works and doesn't work with him.

wilson115 wrote:I know it's only 3 games but have to put this out there, is Clifford actually a good coach? He gets his hands on seasoned vets and a point guard rotation and suddenly the team's cooking. Best of all, imo, for someone with a rep for refusing to play youngsters, has our prized rookie playing like he'll make an All-NBA team sooner rather than later.

I suppose there are worse options, but I'm afraid his offense is too rigid and won't evolve. Feels like a guy that if we learned our best play was "random" he would still force specific plays. Happy to be wrong, maybe it's fan ptsd from the Larry Brown years.

I’m open but skeptical to the idea. Unlike last week, this is a basketball team with a core of guys that I’d be mostly happy with all being around for a while. If they like Cliff and want to keep playing like this for Cliff, well, prove it. Play like this the rest of the year and it’s an option worth considering when the time comes

That said, I wouldn’t let Cliff stand in the way of hiring a good GM if that GM insists on bringing in a staff he wants

Lol I was absolutely crucified on here not even a week ago at the idea of bringing him back.

Liver_Pooty wrote:Lol I was absolutely crucified on here not even a week ago at the idea of bringing him back.

I was ready for total annihilation last week but a solid 5 man rotation purge and gm firing followed by 3 wins does a number to ease the bloodlust. Clifford may live…for now…