FIRE MITCH!

[yosemiteben]

Agree to disagree, I just can't imagine that they would have hired (or even contacted) Cliff if their number two choice was available and still interested.

[wilson115]

Cliff was a power play from someone other than MItch. That's always been the pattern under MJ's clown show. MJ lets his pet GM get the first shot for the sake of appearances. Then when things fall through as it inevitably does, MJ's sycophants flex. Wouldn't be surprised to learn if those bastards did something to screw up the Atkinson signing and drive him back to Frisco at the last minute.

[Rays Pompadour]

The state of Charlotte professional sports is historically bad. It can't be quantified except in mounting losses to just how sucky things have been in the Queen City sports scene. What makes it even sadder is the only real hope for a winning Carolinas sports team lives in Raleigh.

Which leaves us casting about for any sign of hope. Actually, the hope lies in next season for both city professional sports franchises.

The Hornets are in a transition year with new ownership. Anyone expecting big changes or a "burn it all down" philosophy was in for a sore disappointment from the start. Retaining staff as-is was timely as it was strategic. The Hornets needed to process the transaction and also deal with Miles Bridges' super-stupid situation. Getting PJ Washington to re-sign for a reasonable contract was a decent win as was drafting a future core player in Brandon Miller.

This summer, bigger changes are expected. Kupchak's and Clifford's contracts are up and the new owners will have a better runway to get done what needs to be done. Firing either in-season, therefore, makes little strategic sense despite all the losing. Getting ink on Bridges' contract will be a prime goal, whether it's for a short-term deal or a more expanded sign-and-trade. I'm hoping for the latter. The Hayward contract mercifully expires and, not to be underestimated, so does Michael Jordan's lingering presence and pall on the organization. The air will be clear for the first time in quite a while and that's cause for hope of brighter days ahead.

The Panthers are in a similar situation in that there is significant transition - with a new rookie quarterback and new coaching staff. The talent deficiency is glaringly evident with all the injuries and lack of depth. The Panthers will be without draft capital but will have cap to spend in free agency. It'll be an interesting off season for Scott Fitterer to find a way to acquire an impact wide receiver, add depth on the offensive line, re-sign (or franchise) Brian Burns, add a pass-rushing compliment to Burns and find a tight end that can stretch the field. If owner David Tepper can restrain his turrets syndrome tendencies, 2024 and, even more, 2025 looks much brighter to right things in Charlotte.

[SWedd523]

Agree to disagree, I just can't imagine that they would have hired (or even contacted) Cliff if their number two choice was available and still interested.

You can't imagine that MJ and the crew panicked and went with someone they all knew and had worked with before?

Bernie, Ham Biscuit, Brown, Silas, Cliff, Higgins, Mitch, 3/4 of the FO being friends and family or retread dudes MJ knows from his past days.

It shouldn't surprise you at all that they'd go with Cliff

[JMAC3]

Mitch is 69 years old, whether we want to fire him or not he is probably already debating retiring. The change in ownership probably would have sealed his fate whether we won 50 games this year or not.

I think heading into the year we all expected a change over at HC and GM this year no matter the seasons results.
I am perfectly fine letting Mitch ride it out this year, what is firing him right now going to accomplish?

Whereas at least if we fire Clifford and bring in someone else we can get an idea if this is a scheme/coach issue or a player personnel issue.

[yosemiteben]

Agree to disagree, I just can't imagine that they would have hired (or even contacted) Cliff if their number two choice was available and still interested.

You can't imagine that MJ and the crew panicked and went with someone they all knew and had worked with before?

Bernie, Ham Biscuit, Brown, Silas, Cliff, Higgins, Mitch, 3/4 of the FO being friends and family or retread dudes MJ knows from his past days.

It shouldn't surprise you at all that they'd go with Cliff

None of those situations are comparable though.

I don't buy that they went through a very prolonged hiring process (that didn't include Cliff), then they discarded their process altogether when coaches they themselves identified as strong candidates remained interested.

[chabber]

You can't imagine that MJ and the crew panicked and went with someone they all knew and had worked with before?

I think you hit the nail on the head. Atkinson backing out put us in a spot where MJ probably forced a decision on Mitch and he went with someone he knows he can work with and trusts. This has been my take since it happened and in a way I get it. A lot of people would make that decision after the embarrassment of the Atkinson situation. Still does not make it a good one.

[LofJ]

I'm almost certain the Atkinson fiasco played a huge factor in convincing Jordan that he needed to sell the team. That sort of thing doesn't happen to successful, well-run organizations. After years of obvious mismanagement I think it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

The sooner new ownership cleans house the better. We shouldn't have to sit through another entire season with a lame duck front office and coaching staff. Go out and get the new GM now and let him start the search for a new coach right away.

[SWedd523]

Agree to disagree, I just can't imagine that they would have hired (or even contacted) Cliff if their number two choice was available and still interested.

You can't imagine that MJ and the crew panicked and went with someone they all knew and had worked with before?

Bernie, Ham Biscuit, Brown, Silas, Cliff, Higgins, Mitch, 3/4 of the FO being friends and family or retread dudes MJ knows from his past days.

It shouldn't surprise you at all that they'd go with Cliff

None of those situations are comparable though.

I don't buy that they went through a very prolonged hiring process (that didn't include Cliff), then they discarded their process altogether when coaches they themselves identified as strong candidates remained interested.

You know we're talking about MJ and Co right?

You shouldn't at all be surprised that they did something short sighted, narrow focused, and nepotistic.

[JMAC3]

I think this was part of it, but Clifford did a good job of winning games when he was here before and those teams had less talent. I think the premise was we were soft, didn't play defense and undisciplined on and off court. Hard to look at their time in Charlotte and say Borrego was better than Cliff his first run through.

Clifford years in Charlotte
2013 - Hornets 6th best def rating of 103.3. 24th best off 103. 16th best net rating
2014- Hornets 10th best def rating of 103. 28th best off 99.6. 24th best net rating
2015- Hornets 9th best def rating of 103.7. 24th best off 106.4. 9th best net rating
2016- Hornets 17th best def rating of 108.4. 14th best off 108.4. 15th best net rating
2017- Hornets 17th best def rating of 109. 9th best off 109. 18th best net rating


Borrego years in Charlotte
2018 - Hornets 23rd best def rating of 112. 11th best off 110.7. 19th best net rating
2019 - Hornets 25th best def rating of 112.8. 28th best off 105.9. 27th best net rating
2020 - Hornets 16th best def rating of 112. 23rd best off 110.1. 23rd best net rating
2021 - Hornets 22nd best def rating of 113.1. 8th best off 113.6. 16th best net rating

Clifford years in Orlando
2018 - Magic 8th best def rating of 107.6. 22nd best off 108.2. 14th best net rating
2019 - Magic 11th best def rating of 109.2. 23rd best off 107.9. 19th best net rating
2020 - Magic 26th best def rating of 113.9. 29th best off 104.6. 29th best net rating
2021 - Magic 19th best def rating of 112.1. 29th best off 103.9. 28th best net rating

Clifford recent years in Charlotte
2022- Hornets 20th best def rating of 114.7. 30th best off 108.4 27th best net rating
2023 - Hornets 30th best def rating of 121.4. 17th best off 111.9. 28th best net rating

In Clifford 5 years he had 3 top 10 defenses, 1 top 10 offense and 1 top 10 net rating.
Borrego in 4 years had 1 year as a top 20 defense, 2 years with top 11 offenses and 16th was our best ever net rating.

Now if you look at Clifford his last 4 years coaching his def ratings have been 26th, 19th, 20th and 30th which to me says maybe his defensive principals are out of date.

[fatlever]

rank the order these guys get fired:
mitch, cliff, fitterer, reich

[JMAC3]

I think this was part of it, but Clifford did a good job of winning games when he was here before and those teams had less talent. I think the premise was we were soft, didn't play defense and undisciplined on and off court. Hard to look at their time in Charlotte and say Borrego was better than Cliff his first run through.

Clifford years in Charlotte
2013 - Hornets 6th best def rating of 103.3. 24th best off 103. 16th best net rating
2014- Hornets 10th best def rating of 103. 28th best off 99.6. 24th best net rating
2015- Hornets 9th best def rating of 103.7. 24th best off 106.4. 9th best net rating
2016- Hornets 17th best def rating of 108.4. 14th best off 108.4. 15th best net rating
2017- Hornets 17th best def rating of 109. 9th best off 109. 18th best net rating


Borrego years in Charlotte
2018 - Hornets 23rd best def rating of 112. 11th best off 110.7. 19th best net rating
2019 - Hornets 25th best def rating of 112.8. 28th best off 105.9. 27th best net rating
2020 - Hornets 16th best def rating of 112. 23rd best off 110.1. 23rd best net rating
2021 - Hornets 22nd best def rating of 113.1. 8th best off 113.6. 16th best net rating

Clifford years in Orlando
2018 - Magic 8th best def rating of 107.6. 22nd best off 108.2. 14th best net rating
2019 - Magic 11th best def rating of 109.2. 23rd best off 107.9. 19th best net rating
2020 - Magic 26th best def rating of 113.9. 29th best off 104.6. 29th best net rating
2021 - Magic 19th best def rating of 112.1. 29th best off 103.9. 28th best net rating

Clifford recent years in Charlotte
2022- Hornets 20th best def rating of 114.7. 30th best off 108.4 27th best net rating
2023 - Hornets 30th best def rating of 121.4. 17th best off 111.9. 28th best net rating

In Clifford 5 years he had 3 top 10 defenses, 1 top 10 offense and 1 top 10 net rating.
Borrego in 4 years had 1 year as a top 20 defense, 2 years with top 11 offenses and 16th was our best ever net rating.

Now if you look at Clifford his last 4 years coaching his def ratings have been 26th, 19th, 20th and 30th which to me says maybe his defensive principals are out of date.

We fired Clifford when he had the 18th best net rating and 9th best offense. Nobody had an issue, but we fired Borrego with the 16th best net rating and 8th best offense and people couldn't believe it.

[JMAC3]

rank the order these guys get fired:
mitch, cliff, fitterer, reich

Reich- easiest to replace in short term, Evero, McCown or Thomas Brown are worthy options.
Fitterer- he has made a ton of dumb decisons and very few good ones.
Cliff- again easier to replace in short term.
Mitch- Easily has been the best guy at his job in all honesty.

[luciano-davidwesley]

Whatever you think of Mitch, it makes no sense for him to hire the next coach if he's retiring or getting sacked within the next 6-12 months

[JDR720]

I think Cliff and Mitch are a package deal.

If Cliff gets fired, it doesn't make sense for Mitch to have any say in who the next coach is because he wants to retire.
If Mitch gets fired, it doesn't make sense for the new GM to not fire Cliff to hire their own guy.

Fittterer and Reich are probably fired first though because Tepper has money to burn and isn't patient at all.

[SWedd523]

Whatever you think of Mitch, it makes no sense for him to hire the next coach if he's retiring or getting sacked within the next 6-12 months

Absolutely not.

Cliff cannot leave without Mitch first-or-at-the-same-time

[SWedd523]

What needs to be sussed out is what role MJ retained in the FO. If he's still party to the decision making process then we're **** regardless

[yosemiteben]

Makes no sense at all to fire Cliff but hang on to Mitch. Get a new GM and let him pick his coach.

[HornetJail]

Celtics game easily bought these clowns a couple extra weeks unfortunately

[JDR720]

Read on Twitter

The Hornets are headed for an eighth straight season in the lottery, and there’s a strong belief that changes will be coming to Charlotte’s front office by next season at the latest, according to NBA executives across the league who spoke with HoopsHype.

During the Mitch Kupchak era, the Hornets have lost both Play-In games they’ve appeared in, never advanced to the playoffs, and only had a winning record in one season.

Some names to keep an eye on should Charlotte make a change in the front office or Kupchak moves to a different role within the organization include Nets assistant general manager Jeff Peterson and Wizards senior vice president of player personnel Travis Schlenk, league sources told HoopsHype.

Peterson and Schlenk have ties to Hornets co-chairman and governor Rick Schnall from their time together in Atlanta, where Schnall was a minority owner of the Hawks and an alternate governor on the NBA Board of Governors since 2015.