Fool Me Twice: The Gordon Hayward Thread

[Bassman]

From the article:

Charlotte will undoubtedly continue listening to calls for Hayward up to the trade deadline, but it's hard to imagine they'd land much beyond salary filler and a second-round pick in talks. That could be enough to get a deal done if the Hornets want to feature Brandon Miller, whose playing time is impacted by Hayward's presence, but odds are they'll keep a grip on Hayward until the front office is satisfied with this season being a wash.

This front office is truly delusional, as is the idiot coach, thinking this team is playoff caliber when everyone is healthy. First…it’s CLEARLY NOT! Having the starting 5 (remember…per Clifdog that includes Rozier) healthy barely gets you competing with non-playoff teams, and is incapable of beating playoff squads 9 out of 10 matchups. Too much youth and too little defense. Second, even with depth via Miller, PJ and Nick, we aren’t tipping the scales enough when including our summer league fill in warm bodies. And, WE HAVE NO LEGIT BACKUP PG…THANKS MITCH.

Now, there is no rush to deal Gordon unless we get a nice offer. However, we know Gordo is on borrowed time until he gets injured, and is a lost trade asset.

So…stop this crap about playoff contenders Cliff and Mitch. Clifford whining about not having his full lineup yet is just baby crying for his job.

[HornetJail]

I cannot imagine we can get much out of him. Like some Gerald Wallace in 2011 type stuff at best (can't believe im still hurt by that)

we got 2 1sts from that deal, we just punted them... but we'll be fortunate to get one at this point.

[JMAC3]

We made it, this is the moment we have been waiting on for Hayward for 2+ years. Where his contract is expiring and isn't going to carry negative trade equity. Regardless of what FO is saying, they are likely trading him, but expecting a trade before the deadline in the NBA is a pipe dream. Teams will have injuries and there will be a real teams interested in Hayward because he can fill multiple roles for a playoff team.

We just need to be patient, which sounds like we are doing. No need to advertise he is available and get nothing back in value.

[Liver_Pooty]

We made it, this is the moment we have been waiting on for Hayward for 2+ years. Where his contract is expiring and isn't going to carry negative trade equity. Regardless of what FO is saying, they are likely trading him, but expecting a trade before the deadline in the NBA is a pipe dream. Teams will have injuries and there will be a real teams interested in Hayward because he can fill multiple roles for a playoff team.

We just need to be patient, which sounds like we are doing. No need to advertise he is available and get nothing back in value.

By patient do you mean wait for him to get injured and have zero value other than his expiring ?

[JMAC3]

We made it, this is the moment we have been waiting on for Hayward for 2+ years. Where his contract is expiring and isn't going to carry negative trade equity. Regardless of what FO is saying, they are likely trading him, but expecting a trade before the deadline in the NBA is a pipe dream. Teams will have injuries and there will be a real teams interested in Hayward because he can fill multiple roles for a playoff team.

We just need to be patient, which sounds like we are doing. No need to advertise he is available and get nothing back in value.

By patient do you mean wait for him to get injured and have zero value other than his expiring ?

You aren't getting a lot for him in a trade in December, but if you are worried about maybe you take 50% return now instead of waiting.

[Bassman]

The only scenario where we’d receive good value for Hayward is a pure “lucky for us, unlucky for the other team” scenario; team contender has key player(s) go down, needs a quality vet to carry them and our Hayward is NOT injured AND playing well.

How lucky are the Hornets?

Make a decent deal Mitch. Hey Mitch…MITCH WAKE UP MITCH!!

[Snidely FC]

From (Zach) Lowe's Things, ESPN+:

Hayward's traumatic 2017 leg injury -- in his first game as a Celtic -- stands as one of the saddest and most fascinating sliding doors moments in recent NBA history. Hayward was solidifying himself as an All-Star -- a 22-point, 5-assist, 5-rebound type who could defend four positions. He has never been close to that since.

Hayward is still a good two-way player -- a 15-point, 5-assist guy who could help a contender in a lesser role. But until breaking out for 22 points Thursday night against the Brooklyn Nets, he had looked a shade of himself -- experiencing a crisis in confidence in full public view. His go-to move now is spinning away from contact, even when he has a runway, and pivoting into fadeaway jumpers.

Almost 60% of Hayward's attempts have been mid-rangers, per Cleaning The Glass. He's getting to the rim at near career-low rates, and barely takes 3s anymore. After a nice start, Hayward has scored 10 or fewer points in five of his last eight games.

He's still helpful as a connector, but sometimes the right play involves getting greedy. Hayward has the feel and oomph to do that -- and the stroke from deep -- but he has to get past whatever mental hurdle is in his way.

[yosemiteben]

https://hoopshype.com/lists/gordon-hayward-on-lamelo-ball-brandon-miller-mark-williams-and-rudy-gobert-comparison-future/

Wow this stuck out to me:

What are your expectations for this group by the end of the season?

GH: I think that all depends on if we defend. If we defend and get stops, then I think certainly the playoffs are the expectation. If we don’t defend, we’ll be just like the last couple of years. That’s on us.

[JDR720]

I wonder what the others think about that.

Gordon isn't that athletic and is the oldest player on the team (besides Ish) yet he gives more effort on D than most of them do.

[Bassman]

Watched the YouTube video of Clifford’s post game comments where he made his case about defense. Acknowledged how entertaining the win over the Nets was but how defense wasn’t anywhere close to needed levels. Sounded like he challenges the players to bring the effort up, pushes the factoid about playoff teams needing a top 10 defense. He knows he is ultimately responsible.

I think he’s too locked in to his situational lineups. The only way NBA coaches can push undermotivated players to do what they want them to do is give or restrict minutes. Does he do that with PJ when he is playing lazy defense?

[JMAC3]

I wonder what the others think about that.

Gordon isn't that athletic and is the oldest player on the team (besides Ish) yet he gives more effort on D than most of them do.

Gordon is grading out as one of our worst defenders by Def Rating. Middle of the pack for EPM among top 8.

I don't expect Gordon to be a good defender but the numbers aren't really backing him up if he is trying to subtweet guys.

[fatlever]

Yeah, Ciff went off on our defense after last game.

Sent from my SM-G973U using RealGM mobile app

[vorbis]

he can go off all he wants, but if he can't reach the players to change their habits and improve the defense, it'll be him on the chopping block. that's just the reality of the NBA. this is a concern many had about bringing Clifford back, and so far it seems to be bearing out like many expected.

[JDR720]

Read on Twitter

Gordon out for at least 2 weeks.

[Liver_Pooty]

Read on Twitter

Gordon out for at least 2 weeks.

Just need him to be healthy at the trade deadline.

[DoItALL9]

Hayward and Bridges for Zach LaVine


Does this move the needle for anyone looking to next season?

[fatlever]

^fake trade thread

[JDR720]

Was my tweet above when he last played? 2 weeks is going to turn into 2 months.

[luciano-davidwesley]

Was my tweet above when he last played? 2 weeks is going to turn into 2 months.

Hayward has always exceeded the worst case diagnosis of his injury timeframes. We should not be surprised.

[fatlever]

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1aix0n5/stein_the_hornets_im_told_have_not_ruled_out/
marc stein
"I have, however, heard even more strongly since we last covered it that a buyout in Gordon Hayward’s case should be regarded as unlikely in the extreme … even if Hayward is not traded this week.

The Hornets, I’m told, have not ruled out trying to re-sign Hayward at season's end if no trade develops. A buyout would require Hayward to forfeit his Bird Rights, so it seems rather safe to rule that possibility out."