Fake Trade Thread #5

[JDR720]

I still think Nick is good enough as a backup C. If Mark is healthy, he's a 15 minute player. That is perfectly fine for his skillset and salary. Who else is better for 5M or less?

The issue was not bothering to get a 3rd C after we cut Kai. Hopefully the guy we drafted this year will be thay guy. Maybe supplant Nick as the backup in year 2.

We could use a PF with actual size too. Miller is the tallest player on the team (not counting Thor) that isn't Nick/Mark.

[LofJ]

Kelly Olynyk is a guy we should be interested in this summer. A straight swap of Hayward for him and Tucker wouldn't be the worst trade, especially if we manage to bring Olynyk back next season.

[JMAC3]

Circling back to Dallas, they got the 24th pick in this draft for taking back Richaun Holmes into cap space.

We probably can get 2 2nds this summer for taking back guys like Kleber, Holmes etc. There is zero incentive to trade PJ for the same type of package now.

[JustBuzzin]

I agree that a Miles trade is unlikely.

However, we really should take back some salary for either Lowry or Hayward. We shouldn't go into the off-season with over $50 million in cap space to spend.

Take on salary for what?

If we get a 1st sure I would take on salary. But taking on a bad contract just because makes no sense.

It wouldn't be just because, having salary that you can aggregate to other players to pull off a trade for a difference maker is important. There are a lot more options in the trade market if you have salaries you can move, especially if they're expiring.

I understand that.

I'm just saying we need to get picks back if we go that route. Just taking on a bad contract with no picks is not helping us. If we plan on trading that bad contract player in the future we need to have picks attached.

[fatlever]

If we do end up trading miles for peanuts, what does that tell us about the organizations view on miles?

Which of the following statements would be true?

1. The organization does not believe that Miles legal troubles are over, or don't believe he can stay out of trouble, mitigating Risk by selling now before long-term commitment.

2. The organization does not believe that miles is an impact player worth the money that clutch will demand, sell now to get something back knowing they have no intention to pay is asking price in the summer

3. The organization does not believe that Miles has intention to resign with the Hornets and will look to sign elsewhere this summer therefore get something back now before he leaves for nothing

4. The organization believes that miles is part of the culture problem with the organization, looks to shed him now for something, rather than keeping him around long-term

5. The organization never had any intention in keeping miles long-term due to the domestic violence issues. Only brought him back for the sole purpose of flipping him for something of value that the deadline.

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[Chapelchilla]

If we do end up trading miles for peanuts, what does that tell us about the organizations view on miles?

Which of the following statements would be true?

1. The organization does not believe that Miles legal troubles are over, or don't believe he can stay out of trouble, mitigating Risk by selling now before long-term commitment.

2. The organization does not believe that miles is an impact player worth the money that clutch will demand, sell now to get something back knowing they have no intention to pay is asking price in the summer

3. The organization does not believe that Miles has intention to resign with the Hornets and will look to sign elsewhere this summer therefore get something back now before he leaves for nothing

4. The organization believes that miles is part of the culture problem with the organization, looks to shed him now for something, rather than keeping him around long-term

5. The organization never had any intention in keeping miles long-term due to the domestic violence issues. Only brought him back for the sole purpose of flipping him for something of value that the deadline.

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I think 1,2 and 4 maybe true or should at least give them plenty to consider before shelling out big bucks. I think he does want to be here but wants to be paid well. Hopefully the Hornets have a better idea about what will/may happen at his next court date then we do and maybe that factors in?

[JMAC3]

I feel like we have officially reached the point that Miller is all that matters in like 75% of fans minds. I love Miller, but he isn't winning anything by himself. Most good teams have 3 top 50 players minimum. The Celtics have like 5, surrounding Miller with journeyman Vets isn't winning playoff series. We need to try and get as many good players as possible.

[JMAC3]

I feel like we have officially reached the point that Miller is all that matters in like 75% of fans minds. I love Miller, but he isn't winning anything by himself. Most good teams have 3 top 50 players minimum. The Celtics have like 5, surrounding Miller with journeyman Vets isn't winning playoff series. We need to try and get as many good players as possible.

This is probably just me being a bit of whiner, but I really don't enjoy the fan base turning on every single player on the team to lift up Miller. Like the Ball vs Miller debates are unhealthy, fan base shifting on trade Miles after every single half of basketball, The constant negative attention getting reposted over and over again about players talking to others after the game etc etc...

It is just so much negativity and honestly exhausting.

And again, I love Miller, have been on his bandwagon since before Day 1, but I don't feel like we need to alienate every single player because they aren't a top 2 pick showing star potential. Everyone provides a different form of value, we shouldn't use Miller as the new norm because we aren't adding players of his caliber in FA, via trade nor probably in this draft unless we have #1 or just get lucky and bink the best player.

80% of players in the league if not more have major flaws, the grass isn't always greener just because it is new. Most of the guys that are FA or teams are willing to trade are going to fit this model.

[JustBuzzin]

I feel like we have officially reached the point that Miller is all that matters in like 75% of fans minds. I love Miller, but he isn't winning anything by himself. Most good teams have 3 top 50 players minimum. The Celtics have like 5, surrounding Miller with journeyman Vets isn't winning playoff series. We need to try and get as many good players as possible.

This is probably just me being a bit of whiner, but I really don't enjoy the fan base turning on every single player on the team to lift up Miller. Like the Ball vs Miller debates are unhealthy, fan base shifting on trade Miles after every single half of basketball, The constant negative attention getting reposted over and over again about players talking to others after the game etc etc...

It is just so much negativity and honestly exhausting.

And again, I love Miller, have been on his bandwagon since before Day 1, but I don't feel like we need to alienate every single player because they aren't a top 2 pick showing star potential. Everyone provides a different form of value, we shouldn't use Miller as the new norm because we aren't adding players of his caliber in FA, via trade nor probably in this draft unless we have #1 or just get lucky and bink the best player.

80% of players in the league if not more have major flaws, the grass isn't always greener just because it is new. Most of the guys that are FA or teams are willing to trade are going to fit this model.

When he scores a layup and is the first guy back trying to play defense it's kind of hard to ignore.

Miller seems like the only player who cares to play defense. The Lakers were literally killing time off the clock because nobody cares to pickup the pg. Miller was the only one running back to pressure the ball.

We need winning players who give effort. This trend will continue if these players don't change their approach.

[JMAC3]

I feel like we have officially reached the point that Miller is all that matters in like 75% of fans minds. I love Miller, but he isn't winning anything by himself. Most good teams have 3 top 50 players minimum. The Celtics have like 5, surrounding Miller with journeyman Vets isn't winning playoff series. We need to try and get as many good players as possible.

This is probably just me being a bit of whiner, but I really don't enjoy the fan base turning on every single player on the team to lift up Miller. Like the Ball vs Miller debates are unhealthy, fan base shifting on trade Miles after every single half of basketball, The constant negative attention getting reposted over and over again about players talking to others after the game etc etc...

It is just so much negativity and honestly exhausting.

And again, I love Miller, have been on his bandwagon since before Day 1, but I don't feel like we need to alienate every single player because they aren't a top 2 pick showing star potential. Everyone provides a different form of value, we shouldn't use Miller as the new norm because we aren't adding players of his caliber in FA, via trade nor probably in this draft unless we have #1 or just get lucky and bink the best player.

80% of players in the league if not more have major flaws, the grass isn't always greener just because it is new. Most of the guys that are FA or teams are willing to trade are going to fit this model.

When he scores a layup and is the first guy back trying to play defense it's kind of hard to ignore.

Miller seems like the only player who cares to play defense. The Lakers were literally killing time off the clock because nobody cares to pickup the pg. Miller was the only one running back to pressure the ball.

We need winning players who give effort. This trend will continue if these players don't change their approach.

Yeah the clip got shared 100 times, do you think that is a positive? I think Miller is guy that will eventually be a good defender, but he is a 17% in Def EPM and has just as many areas he needs to improve on that end as the next guy. I am sure him having to carry the offensive load hasn't really helped his energy and output defensively but still in that Lakers game he had plenty of moments late where LeBron got easy buckets on him within 3 feet of the rim.

He also had 3 fouls in that game and barely played because he struggled on defense early. I like his fire and he seems to have a want to win and some leadership skills but again he isn't doing it alone and signing guys like Kelly Olyck and Buddy Hield in FA isn't getting us to the playoffs.

[JustBuzzin]

This is probably just me being a bit of whiner, but I really don't enjoy the fan base turning on every single player on the team to lift up Miller. Like the Ball vs Miller debates are unhealthy, fan base shifting on trade Miles after every single half of basketball, The constant negative attention getting reposted over and over again about players talking to others after the game etc etc...

It is just so much negativity and honestly exhausting.

And again, I love Miller, have been on his bandwagon since before Day 1, but I don't feel like we need to alienate every single player because they aren't a top 2 pick showing star potential. Everyone provides a different form of value, we shouldn't use Miller as the new norm because we aren't adding players of his caliber in FA, via trade nor probably in this draft unless we have #1 or just get lucky and bink the best player.

80% of players in the league if not more have major flaws, the grass isn't always greener just because it is new. Most of the guys that are FA or teams are willing to trade are going to fit this model.

When he scores a layup and is the first guy back trying to play defense it's kind of hard to ignore.

Miller seems like the only player who cares to play defense. The Lakers were literally killing time off the clock because nobody cares to pickup the pg. Miller was the only one running back to pressure the ball.

We need winning players who give effort. This trend will continue if these players don't change their approach.

Yeah the clip got shared 100 times, do you think that is a positive? I think Miller is guy that will eventually be a good defender, but he is a 17% in Def EPM and has just as many areas he needs to improve on that end as the next guy. I am sure him having to carry the offensive load hasn't really helped his energy and output defensively but still in that Lakers game he had plenty of moments late where LeBron got easy buckets on him within 3 feet of the rim.

He also had 3 fouls in that game and barely played because he struggled on defense early. I like his fire and he seems to have a want to win and some leadership skills but again he isn't doing it alone and signing guys like Kelly Olyck and Buddy Hield in FA isn't getting us to the playoffs.

I just want the players to care. The Lakers broadcast team literally said this was the worst defense they have seen all year. I don't know if the players have quit on Clifford, but it doesn't look good on either side.

Injuries have played a part, but it's clear we lack depth after our core pieces.

[KingCat]

Even with off court issues aside, I do not think Miles should be a long term piece. Miller is a smart player. Melo is a passing maestro. I honestly haven't seen enough of Mark to make a judgment on his bball IQ but I will give him the benefit of the doubt lol.

Miles on the other hand is a low IQ ballstopper that I would love for this era of Hornets ball to move away from. I can admit he is talented and can be a bucket, so preferably we are able to move him before he walks away for nothing or we sign him to a regretful contract.

[JMAC3]

When he scores a layup and is the first guy back trying to play defense it's kind of hard to ignore.

Miller seems like the only player who cares to play defense. The Lakers were literally killing time off the clock because nobody cares to pickup the pg. Miller was the only one running back to pressure the ball.

We need winning players who give effort. This trend will continue if these players don't change their approach.

Yeah the clip got shared 100 times, do you think that is a positive? I think Miller is guy that will eventually be a good defender, but he is a 17% in Def EPM and has just as many areas he needs to improve on that end as the next guy. I am sure him having to carry the offensive load hasn't really helped his energy and output defensively but still in that Lakers game he had plenty of moments late where LeBron got easy buckets on him within 3 feet of the rim.

He also had 3 fouls in that game and barely played because he struggled on defense early. I like his fire and he seems to have a want to win and some leadership skills but again he isn't doing it alone and signing guys like Kelly Olyck and Buddy Hield in FA isn't getting us to the playoffs.

I just want the players to care. The Lakers broadcast team literally said this was the worst defense they have seen all year. I don't know if the players have quit on Clifford, but it doesn't look good on either side.

Injuries have played a part, but it's clear we lack depth after our core pieces.

I mean our defense is bad because #1, we are small. We have 1 center on the roster.
#2 we are young we are playing guys that are 22 yrs old or younger and playing defense in NBA is like 80% of knowing where to be, which takes time and most young players aren't good at that for a few years.
#3 we play a lot of bad defenders...
Ish is 1% in def epm
NSj is 1% in def epm
Richards is 15% def epm
Leaky is 13%
Miller is 17%


Hayward is 68% def epm
Miles is 57% def epm
PJ is 33% def epm
Martin is 86% def epm
Ball is 38% def epm
Mark is 45% def epm

So yeah most of our more experienced guys are at least okay and playable. Problem is most of them aren't playing because they are hurt.

Also, this is a great example of you can make a guy look like a good defender in a highlight tape.
There are people on twitter posting NSj defense videos like he is doing stuff well and there are people posting Miles playing awful defense and he is the issue. Most numbers are going to say Miles is far from the defensive issue.

[Rich4114]

Yeah the clip got shared 100 times, do you think that is a positive? I think Miller is guy that will eventually be a good defender, but he is a 17% in Def EPM and has just as many areas he needs to improve on that end as the next guy. I am sure him having to carry the offensive load hasn't really helped his energy and output defensively but still in that Lakers game he had plenty of moments late where LeBron got easy buckets on him within 3 feet of the rim.

He also had 3 fouls in that game and barely played because he struggled on defense early. I like his fire and he seems to have a want to win and some leadership skills but again he isn't doing it alone and signing guys like Kelly Olyck and Buddy Hield in FA isn't getting us to the playoffs.

I just want the players to care. The Lakers broadcast team literally said this was the worst defense they have seen all year. I don't know if the players have quit on Clifford, but it doesn't look good on either side.

Injuries have played a part, but it's clear we lack depth after our core pieces.

I mean our defense is bad because #1, we are small. We have 1 center on the roster.
#2 we are young we are playing guys that are 22 yrs old or younger and playing defense in NBA is like 80% of knowing where to be, which takes time and most young players aren't good at that for a few years.
#3 we play a lot of bad defenders...
Ish is 1% in def epm
NSj is 1% in def epm
Richards is 15% def epm
Leaky is 13%
Miller is 17%


Hayward is 68% def epm
Miles is 57% def epm
PJ is 33% def epm
Martin is 86% def epm
Ball is 38% def epm
Mark is 45% def epm

So yeah most of our more experienced guys are at least okay and playable. Problem is most of them aren't playing because they are hurt.

Also, this is a great example of you can make a guy look like a good defender in a highlight tape.
There are people on twitter posting NSj defense videos like he is doing stuff well and there are people posting Miles playing awful defense and he is the issue. Most numbers are going to say Miles is far from the defensive issue.

I've given up, it's toxic to a degree I haven't seen before regarding this fanbase. I think many of the posts trashing the team aren't even fans either. But this is what happens when you're bad in back to back years.

[JMAC3]

Rod Boone article without paywall, dude is useless.

https://hoopswire.com/busy-hornets-fielding-more-calls-on-pj-washington-than-any-other-player/

Sounds like PJ is getting interest from a ton of teams.

[JMAC3]

Rod Boone article without paywall, dude is useless.

https://hoopswire.com/busy-hornets-fielding-more-calls-on-pj-washington-than-any-other-player/

Sounds like PJ is getting interest from a ton of teams.

Basically, all you need to know if Hornets probably aren't getting Josh Green, but because 1 rumor mentioned his name like 90% of fans will be mad if we keep PJ over him or trade PJ for something else lol.

[MasterIchiro]

Even with off court issues aside, I do not think Miles should be a long term piece. Miller is a smart player. Melo is a passing maestro. I honestly haven't seen enough of Mark to make a judgment on his bball IQ but I will give him the benefit of the doubt lol.

Miles on the other hand is a low IQ ballstopper that I would love for this era of Hornets ball to move away from. I can admit he is talented and can be a bucket, so preferably we are able to move him before he walks away for nothing or we sign him to a regretful contract.

Need one guy like that. Terry was one too many.

[amcoolio]

Josh Green has improved no doubt but he's not this untouchable asset or something. PJ should be enough, if they truly want a forward

[JMAC3]

Josh Green has improved no doubt but he's not this untouchable asset or something. PJ should be enough, if they truly want a forward

yeah, maybe but if we don't get him I am sure a year from now the narrative will be... "We could of had Josh Green" lol.

[JMAC3]

Not sure I am really trusting this as a source.

Read on Twitter

Basically 2 steps below bleacher report.