okafor/chandler - share your thoughts (merged)

[SWedd523]

Richardson was a really nice piece of our team and its a shame he wasn't an "LB" guy. I liked his game and was happy with the way he came in and worked out super early over the summer to try and get the team over the hump. He seemed sincere about liking the city and was a good community guy.

At the same time, he seemed to sort of disappear at the end of the games when we really needed him to shine. He also wasn't a very good man or team defender, which didn't please LB very much.


I think people have become so enamored with Raja and Boris that they have to qualify that by trashing Richardson. It kind of does, and doesn't, make sense to me. The trade was nice because we essentially brought in 2 good players for the price of 1, and anytime you do that, you come out ahead.


It certainly makes sense to root harder for the guys currently on the team but it gets a bit ridiculous in both directions. I see the doomsday crybaby response to the Mek trade (Walt... and yes, that's exaggerated, but bear with me) and I see the "he was trash" response (Battery) so I think you guys are a both a bit on the extreme end of the spectrum.

The trade isn't anywhere near as horrible as you think Walt and the trade isn't anywhere near as spectacular as you think Battery. The debate is hugely entertaining all the same

[Walt Cronkite]

Yeah sorry if it wasn't clear. Just a joke about how we rip on everyone the second they aren't associated with the franchise.

Ha, well played. Now I get it!

[Walt Cronkite]

Swedd, what have I written that's extreme? Mek got pretty much nothing but grief despite playing with a whopping ONE PF worth his salt his entire tenure here. He did a lot of little things that people are only going to become apparent to some now that we're relying on Tyson Chandler to do them.

Again, I hope Chandler works out, we're paying him enough (ya know, since Mek was overpaid but Chandler makes even more but we expect less out of him). If Bob Johnson is close to selling, I'll consider this the move that made it happen and just deal with it, but I fully expect for every other team to make fun of us once Mek starts doing his thing in NO.

Back to the Wire.

[thruthefire]

People here are in love with stats and will just go by that, even though they didn't watch the game!!!

You continue to make this assumption, but have absolutely nothing to back it up with.

[e4Nf6]

If the hammers were only awarded for good stats then Felton wouldn't finish as high as he always does. I've seen him get hammers for his 3/11, 5 turnover games

Which is beside the point anyway.....If the question is how people felt about Jrich here on RealGM then the hammers seem like a pretty good barometer. Of course it doesn't mean that he really was the best player, just that people here seemed to think so.

Being a fan of a team doesn't mean that you believe it does no wrong, that every trade was useless players for good ones. You can question the moves that your team makes and still support them.

Answer this please, do you get the games on TV in Raleigh?

I would KILL to be able to just flip on the TV and watch a Bobcat's game. Unfortunately folks like me and Walt have to spend hours searching for streams/torrents of the game. If anything this makes us MORE dedicated fans than people who know that they can watch the game with no effort at all.

[thruthefire]

I remember a stretch when Wallace was getting hammers because he "played hard." Felton should hammer in every game, if that's the criteria. Point being, I didn't agree with that.

Speaking of hammers; are we having them this season?

[spectre_]

CatNation...excellent!

TTF, that's because you have to vote for all three or it doesn't count and they have the same award during losses...which I personally never voted in. You also had some fanboys voting for their guy (but there's no avoiding that one).

For the record I loved Swish. In one thread on here I argued for pages with some guy who isn't on here anymore on why he was such an asset.

In trades fans always want to "win" the deal; sadly with us...since we ALWAYS get back less than the value of what we moved if the player we get doesn't show a big impact then to win the outgoing guy just has to suck.

I blame the lollipop.

You can't call yourself a real fan until you set up til 2 in the morning watching a west coast away game on ESPN's gamecast. That's dedication.

[W_HAMILTON]

I don't know if you all are still arguing about it, but, yes, Richardson was loved around here.

People were happily ready to throw Wallace under the bus in favor of keeping Richardson. People said that Wallace and Richardson couldn't coexist (something I still don't understand), and back when Wallace got injured and we went on a little run, people were like, "see, I told you it's all Wallace's fault!"

There was one or two guys that probably disliked him (and one of the had a B-name, I can't remember if it was Battery or Bassman), but for the most part, people around here loved Richardson.

[Battery]

How can you even write about what the love for Jrich was like when you weren't even posting here?

Sorry, I didn't know you actually had to be a poster here in order to be able to read the boards. I guess I must have missed that memo.

Jrich was a beloved player on Realgm.

Sorry but this deserves 3 Where do you come up with this material?

If you post on BCP or some other board and things were different there, then that's another story.

No, I post here and on charlotte.com where they don't see everything through rose colored glasses like a lot of the fans do here. Also I go to a lot of the games so I'm always interacting with fans.

You can pick apart the game of any player outside of what, Kobe or LeBron?

Yes and there are certain skill sets you look for when BUILDING A CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM.

Battery, who's your favorite player on the team? Why?

I don't have a "favorite player." But if you ask me who I think could be a part of a very good team, I like Raja and Diaw because they do a lot of the "little things" well that don't show up in the box scores. I consider them to be very good role players and you need those types if you want to go far in the playoffs.

[Walt Cronkite]

You obviously didn't read the board very well since there have been 3 or 4 guys to come in here and confirm what I've said.

Don't get the 3 rofls, you're digging yourself a hole. Again, Jrich was a player who was greatly loved, the board went crazy when he was traded.

I hate the moves we've been making lately, so this rose colored glasses obviously doesn't apply to me. Bowens used to call me the board optimist, but I don't really think that's accurate... I guess I'll take it though if it's all you got.

Stop caping "building a championship team" like no one else wants that. We all want that, but it's a little unrealistic for a team with an owner looking to sell that's never been to the playoffs or had a .500 record or even an all-star. Baby steps.

[Paydro70]

Bowens! That might be who Hamilton was referring to.

I can't believe this is a serious discussion... Jrich was extremely well-received when we got him, and most of the people on this board were thrilled with his play and very unhappy about the trade. I was one of them... the only way I saw it working out was if Diaw turned out to be as good as he had been 3 years before (after going fat and sucky... but I guess that kind of "giving up" doesn't matter compared to Okafor?), which thankfully he did. Even then, as Spectre points out, we still could have gotten better value on the deal if we hadn't thrown in Dudley.

Rose colored glasses is a very funny thing to accuse this board of, since you have spent most of your time doing battle against the doom and gloom that Walt, ttf, Hamilton and I have been saying.

Anyway, to echo the others who have been upset about the trade, I am obviously hoping when the season starts that Chandler works out awesome, we're much better as a team, and we win a million games. That is not what I am expecting or what I think is going to happen, though, and I think any fan has a right to be upset about what they think is a stupid move.

[doc.end]

I've invested a lot more into the Bobcats on this board than you. If we never trade Okafor you're still a Ballboy, but for some reason you're a better fan than me?

This true Walt but then that's the reason I would never expected to read such a low argument for you. Very sad.

[doc.end]

Walt speaks the truth....

I imagine if one day the unthinkable (for me) happens, and we trade Crash. I can look forward to hearing about how overated he is, and how he didn't help the team, was always hurt, etc.

Jrich as I recall, ran away with the most hammers in the mouth-breather era. So there is concrete evidence that not only did people here like his game, but that he was our team MVP that year.

All this stuff about Jrich hurting the team or not being a "team player" is ridiculous. He's a good player and Diaw is perhaps a little better at a harder to fill position.

I guess this has much more to do with justifying our moves and trades than anything else. Rather trying to ba positive than hairpulling. And few can people take that to far with their comments sometimes.

[doc.end]

Oh, 37 pages already. I think we can't compare J-rich and Meka situations. Many still (have) liked J-Rich after the trade because the intensity he usually brings. Emeka is everything else than intensity guy. He din't make high (albeit unfair) expectations and frustrated some fans here because of his unemotional non-intense style. Another factor is that at first sight that Okafor-Chandler trade is hard to swallow maybe ever harder than Diaw-Richardson one. So it leads to those reactions on one side and to crybabies ones on the other side.

I can undesrstand a point of view like, I'm glad EO50 is gone, don't mistake me he is a good player, but man it was tough to keep waiting for him to breakthrough. Then it depends how much hope is anyone able to put into Tyson Chandler.

[doc.end]

About J-Rich trade my reaction was: shocked, a bit pissed what the hell, then I tried to find some sense in it, hit youtube in the process, watch a lto footage and then with assumption Diaw can return to his prime form at least bit I start supporting the trade thinking we should try to squeeze more from Phoenix but nevermind.

This trade is I think bit simillar only bigger, nobody expected us to move our defensive anchor. It is also more tricky with Tyson's current questionable health and the thing that part of value we get is financially flexibility.

[Walt Cronkite]

Low arguments are the best!

[Battery]

You obviously didn't read the board very well since there have been 3 or 4 guys to come in here and confirm what I've said.

Don't get the 3 rofls, you're digging yourself a hole. Again, Jrich was a player who was greatly loved, the board went crazy when he was traded.

I hate the moves we've been making lately, so this rose colored glasses obviously doesn't apply to me. Bowens used to call me the board optimist, but I don't really think that's accurate... I guess I'll take it though if it's all you got.

Stop caping "building a championship team" like no one else wants that. We all want that, but it's a little unrealistic for a team with an owner looking to sell that's never been to the playoffs or had a .500 record or even an all-star. Baby steps.

I didn't necessarily apply the "rose colored glasses" comment to you, it was more like a general feeling I get from realgm as a whole. When I made the comment I was actually going to take it out, but for some reason I left it in. I should have expanded on the point I had in my head at the time, but now I'm forgetting what I was trying to say. Oh well not important, but if I remember, I'll bring it up later.

As far as building championship team, that's just how I think. Every player we have and every player we trade for or ship away I always analyze it in the context of, does this player have the skill sets required to be a part of a team that can go very far in the playoffs. I don't care about "baby steps." Baby steps is when you have a rookie and you give him time to acclimate himself to the NBA game. There is no "baby steps" when building a championship team, because you're either building a team to win, or you're just wasting everybody's time. Allen Iverson is an example of wasting everybody's time. Well at least mine and everyone who wants to build a team that can go far in the playoffs.

JRich just got dumped by Don Nelson and then Larry Brown. "Love" doesn't get you very far in the playoffs. I'm glad we have a coach/gm that doesn't hold onto players just because fans love them, but because they know in order to get better as a team tough decisions have to be made, sometimes to the detriment of ticking off your fan base.

[Battery]

Anyway, to echo the others who have been upset about the trade, I am obviously hoping when the season starts that Chandler works out awesome, we're much better as a team, and we win a million games. That is not what I am expecting or what I think is going to happen, though, and I think any fan has a right to be upset about what they think is a stupid move.

Absolutely you have a right to be upset if you think the move is stupid. Nobody is saying you don't. But we also have the right to tell you that losing Emeka Okafor is not worth getting upset over.

Also I love how you're hoping for the best but fully expect the worst. Your ego as well as all the others who blasted this trade is surely going to be put to the test this season...

[Walt Cronkite]

If you want a championship team, you're going to be really disappointed next year... but somehow rose colored glasses could be expanded on to be relevant to me?

[Battery]

If you want a championship team, you're going to be really disappointed next year...

Obviously, but that's not the point. The point is about acquiring players (starters or role players) who have the necessary skill sets you're looking for when building a team that could eventually go deep into the playoffs. Allen Iverson does not fit this mold. He's what I consider to be a WASTE OF TIME.

but somehow rose colored glasses could be expanded on to be relevant to me?

Huh?