If Denver wants to repeat, Jokic has to step up...

[CometGM]

I think people are putting too much emphasis on single players like Jokic, Gobert, and Ant. These are 2 great cohesive teams but Minnesota just has more talent overall and a good recipe (size/skill) to somewhat minimize Jokic's impact. Will Denver's experience overcome this cohesive talent train in the Wolves? Everybody on the Nuggets have to be better because the Wolves are hungry.

[hardenASG13]

Its literally one game.

If Anthony Edwards keeps putting up 40 points, then yes the Nuggets will be in serious trouble.

Nah that's not really the issue. The issue was they didn't have a counter to Gobert. Gobert just put on a master class in that game and the nuggets had no counter to him.

Jokic is supposed to be that counter. People here are saying he's in the midst of playing the best basketball we've ever seen. Gobert is a great defender. Comparing Jokic to one of the guys people are saying he's playing better than, prime Shaq......look what Shaq did vs. the DPOY, Mutumbo, who was similar to Gobert. If Jokic is going to be mentioned in the same breath, he will need to figure out how to be better and get in better spots to break down the Minny defense, or abuse Gobert as Shaq did to Mutumbo.

And Edward's being unguardable is absolutely an issue. The guy is clearly a dog and is going to attack and provide energy for his team to get behind. With no resistance at the rim, if he's able to keep a rhythm from outside his drive game is going to continue to be a problem, because there's nobody at the rim to stop him, and they need to play up on him outside. If they can't, it's on Jokic to deliver. He can't hope Murray is on, or porter can't miss from 3, or for the bench to have a great game. He needs dominate and raise the confidence of those other guys.

[Woodsanity]

Its literally one game.

If Anthony Edwards keeps putting up 40 points, then yes the Nuggets will be in serious trouble.

Nah that's not really the issue. The issue was they didn't have a counter to Gobert. Gobert just put on a master class in that game and the nuggets had no counter to him.

Jokic is supposed to be that counter. People here are saying he's in the midst of playing the best basketball we've ever seen. Gobert is a great defender. Comparing Jokic to one of the guys people are saying he's playing better than, prime Shaq......look what Shaq did vs. the DPOY, Mutumbo, who was similar to Gobert. If Jokic is going to be mentioned in the same breath, he will need to figure out how to be better and get in better spots to break down the Minny defense, or abuse Gobert as Shaq did to Mutumbo.

And Edward's being unguardable is absolutely an issue. The guy is clearly a dog and is going to attack and provide energy for his team to get behind. With no resistance at the rim, if he's able to keep a rhythm from outside his drive game is going to continue to be a problem, because there's nobody at the rim to stop him, and they need to play up on him outside. If they can't, it's on Jokic to deliver. He can't hope Murray is on, or porter can't miss from 3, or for the bench to have a great game. He needs dominate and raise the confidence of those other guys.

Shaq had Kobe and prime Wade.

Jokic has Murray a guy who has a PER of 14 and a TS of 47% in these playoffs so far....

[hardenASG13]

Nah that's not really the issue. The issue was they didn't have a counter to Gobert. Gobert just put on a master class in that game and the nuggets had no counter to him.

Jokic is supposed to be that counter. People here are saying he's in the midst of playing the best basketball we've ever seen. Gobert is a great defender. Comparing Jokic to one of the guys people are saying he's playing better than, prime Shaq......look what Shaq did vs. the DPOY, Mutumbo, who was similar to Gobert. If Jokic is going to be mentioned in the same breath, he will need to figure out how to be better and get in better spots to break down the Minny defense, or abuse Gobert as Shaq did to Mutumbo.

And Edward's being unguardable is absolutely an issue. The guy is clearly a dog and is going to attack and provide energy for his team to get behind. With no resistance at the rim, if he's able to keep a rhythm from outside his drive game is going to continue to be a problem, because there's nobody at the rim to stop him, and they need to play up on him outside. If they can't, it's on Jokic to deliver. He can't hope Murray is on, or porter can't miss from 3, or for the bench to have a great game. He needs dominate and raise the confidence of those other guys.

Shaq had Kobe and prime Wade.

Jokic has Murray a guy who has a PER of 14 and a TS of 47% in these playoffs so far....

So what? It's been claimed, probably thousands of times on this board, that Jokic is playing at the best level we've ever seen. Shaq had no issues playing his normal game, and eviscerated Mutumbo when up against him, or any defender or team concept to stop him for that matter during his prime (the most dominant I've ever seen). Kobe didnt have a great series shooting the ball in the series I reference vs. Philly, but it didnt matter. They had Shaq. If Jokic is what this board claims he is, he will need to do the same. He's up against a legit team for the first time these past two years, and it's time to deliver and show competitive greatness that's demanded out of guys who want to be in the all time great discussion. It's got nothing to do with the number 2 option, and if he loses and it becomes evident that Minny just has the better team, he better go out like Lebron in 2009 vs. Orlando and show that he elevates his game even in defeat. I've never seen Jokic elevate in a competitive series, where the other team wasnt clearly weaker overall. He needs to step up.

[Franco]

Jokic wasn't very good last game, but the bigger problem for the Nuggets is that Murray has not been good this postseason, even taking into account the game winners.

[levon]

When Denver can't physically bully or outrebound an opponent, their elite armor starts to crack quickly.

[dhsilv2]

Its literally one game.

If Anthony Edwards keeps putting up 40 points, then yes the Nuggets will be in serious trouble.

Nah that's not really the issue. The issue was they didn't have a counter to Gobert. Gobert just put on a master class in that game and the nuggets had no counter to him.

Jokic is supposed to be that counter. People here are saying he's in the midst of playing the best basketball we've ever seen. Gobert is a great defender. Comparing Jokic to one of the guys people are saying he's playing better than, prime Shaq......look what Shaq did vs. the DPOY, Mutumbo, who was similar to Gobert. If Jokic is going to be mentioned in the same breath, he will need to figure out how to be better and get in better spots to break down the Minny defense, or abuse Gobert as Shaq did to Mutumbo.

And Edward's being unguardable is absolutely an issue. The guy is clearly a dog and is going to attack and provide energy for his team to get behind. With no resistance at the rim, if he's able to keep a rhythm from outside his drive game is going to continue to be a problem, because there's nobody at the rim to stop him, and they need to play up on him outside. If they can't, it's on Jokic to deliver. He can't hope Murray is on, or porter can't miss from 3, or for the bench to have a great game. He needs dominate and raise the confidence of those other guys.

Did you even watch the game? No...a player doesn't counter another player. That isn't how basketball is played. I just can't even...

Basketball isn't a game of one on one matchups.

[Special_Puppy]

Jokic wasn't very good last game, but the bigger problem for the Nuggets is that Murray has not been good this postseason, even taking into account the game winners.

Murray has been straight up bad.

[HotRocks34]

Jokic wasn't very good last game, but the bigger problem for the Nuggets is that Murray has not been good this postseason, even taking into account the game winners.

Biggest factors for Denver's struggles this postseason:

* Reduced/injured Murray

* Weaker bench/no Brown

They'd still be better than most teams, like the Lakers, but Minny is elite.

Murray is not a great #2. He's a one-way player who is erratic and who struggles with BBIQ.

Porter's improvement has been noticable. That's a good sign moving forward.

[HotRocks34]

Also if Denver feels like they are going to have to contend with Minny yearly, they may want to look for an Edwards Stopper this summer. KCP isn't that guy IMO.

Minny has Gobert (and KAT) to deal with Jokic but Denver doesn't really have a guy to guard Edwards.

In truth, too, one of the biggest problems for Denver in this matchup is that Gordon can't shoot. So Gobert gets to protect the rim off ball on Jokic drives and he doesn't have to worry about guarding the perimeter.

Most of the issues for Denver in this matchup are non-Jokic ones.

[hardenASG13]

Nah that's not really the issue. The issue was they didn't have a counter to Gobert. Gobert just put on a master class in that game and the nuggets had no counter to him.

Jokic is supposed to be that counter. People here are saying he's in the midst of playing the best basketball we've ever seen. Gobert is a great defender. Comparing Jokic to one of the guys people are saying he's playing better than, prime Shaq......look what Shaq did vs. the DPOY, Mutumbo, who was similar to Gobert. If Jokic is going to be mentioned in the same breath, he will need to figure out how to be better and get in better spots to break down the Minny defense, or abuse Gobert as Shaq did to Mutumbo.

And Edward's being unguardable is absolutely an issue. The guy is clearly a dog and is going to attack and provide energy for his team to get behind. With no resistance at the rim, if he's able to keep a rhythm from outside his drive game is going to continue to be a problem, because there's nobody at the rim to stop him, and they need to play up on him outside. If they can't, it's on Jokic to deliver. He can't hope Murray is on, or porter can't miss from 3, or for the bench to have a great game. He needs dominate and raise the confidence of those other guys.

Did you even watch the game? No...a player doesn't counter another player. That isn't how basketball is played. I just can't even...

Basketball isn't a game of one on one matchups.

Yes, I watched the game. Gobert wasn't the best player on the wolves. That was Edward's. Did you watch it? Do you understand basketball, at all?I seriously cant picture you discussing ball away from a computer, like in a conversation at bar.....youd be mentioning something like Goberts EPM or something making him the best player in game 1, and youd be laughed at, rightfully so.

Don't put words in my mouth, unless you don't understand how to talk basketball and really can only post advanced stats or nitpick wording when youre wrong.

You said Denver didn't have a counter for Gobert. I say that Jokic is supposed to be that counter, as a guy who is supposed to be playing the best basketball we've ever seen. He's supposed to be able to dominate, regardless of who is in front of him. I'm not saying a player counters another player. I'm saying a guy who is supposed to be playing at a GOAT peak should be able to step up and overcome whatever defense is thrown at him. I've seen people harping on Lebron for losing in 2011, and it's a blemish on him for sure. But I'd seen him dominate and be the undisputed best player in series prior to that when he didnt have the best team. Because that's what all time players do. Jokic needs to step up, and if you watched the game I'm not sure how or why youd disagree with that? Or if your saying Goberts "masterclass" was too much to overcome, maybe it's time to question if the numbers suggesting he's playing the best basketball we've ever seen are misleading, if he can be taken out of his game by Gobert and team defensive concept. This is what I've been waiting for, some legit competition for him. He absolutely needs to step up, Minny isn't playing around.

[tsherkin]

If you're primary skill is scoring than league average TS% is a problem. If you're not, and that isn't Jokic's then it's just fine. The problem with Jokic in game was was the turnovers. But and this can't be stressed enough. Gobert just put on a master class in game 1. We need to give credit to him and the wolves defense before we start to be critical of the Denver offense.

But it is a problem, specifically for Denver, because their competitive advantage orbits his scoring efficiency. And it affects possession control, and it affects the impact of how well his teammates play, and and.

I'm not saying Jokic is terrible for it, I'm saying it just wasn't an awesome game from him. Yes, Minny did an excellent job, and part of what I had said was that other top-tier stars have had the same problem in similar circumstances, remember.

But that doesn't mean we need to glow up Jokic's performance. Weak efficiency with lots of turnovers isn't awesome. It is understandable, but those are not the same thing.

[DaFan334]

Watch on YouTube

Minnesota is probably the only team equipped to somewhat handle the Nuggets pick-and-roll game by using the tactics in the video above. This sort of thing has been done before, probably not to the extent that the TWolves are doing it, but it seems like the Nuggets will need to make an adjustment to handle this tonight. When Jokic struggles with things, he generally adapts pretty quickly. I'm sure they did a bit of film work and have a gameplan to counter that. We will see if the Wolves have a response that works.

[dhsilv2]

Jokic is supposed to be that counter. People here are saying he's in the midst of playing the best basketball we've ever seen. Gobert is a great defender. Comparing Jokic to one of the guys people are saying he's playing better than, prime Shaq......look what Shaq did vs. the DPOY, Mutumbo, who was similar to Gobert. If Jokic is going to be mentioned in the same breath, he will need to figure out how to be better and get in better spots to break down the Minny defense, or abuse Gobert as Shaq did to Mutumbo.

And Edward's being unguardable is absolutely an issue. The guy is clearly a dog and is going to attack and provide energy for his team to get behind. With no resistance at the rim, if he's able to keep a rhythm from outside his drive game is going to continue to be a problem, because there's nobody at the rim to stop him, and they need to play up on him outside. If they can't, it's on Jokic to deliver. He can't hope Murray is on, or porter can't miss from 3, or for the bench to have a great game. He needs dominate and raise the confidence of those other guys.

Did you even watch the game? No...a player doesn't counter another player. That isn't how basketball is played. I just can't even...

Basketball isn't a game of one on one matchups.

Yes, I watched the game. Gobert wasn't the best player on the wolves. That was Edward's. Did you watch it? Do you understand basketball, at all?

Don't put words in my mouth, unless you don't understand how to talk basketball and really can only post advanced stats or nitpick wording when youre wrong. You said Denver didn't have a counter for Gobert. I say that Jokic is supposed to be that counter, as a guy who is supposed to be playing the best basketball we've ever seen. He's supposed to be able to dominate, regardless of who is in front of him. I'm not saying a player counters another player. I'm saying a guy who is supposed to be playing at a GOAT peak should be able to step up and overcome whatever defense is thrown at him. I've seen people harping on Lebron for losing in 2011, and it's a blemish on him for sure. But I'd seen him dominate and be the undisputed best player in series prior to that when he didnt have the best team. Because that's what all time players do. Jokic needs to step up, and if you watched the game I'm not sure how or why youd disagree with that? Or if your saying Goberts "masterclass" was too much to overcome, maybe it's time to question if the numbers suggesting he's playing the best basketball we've ever seen are misleading, if he can be taken out of his game by Gobert and team defensive concept. This is what I've been waiting for, some legit competition for him. He absolutely needs to step up, Minny isn't playing around.

You're just talking nonsense. What does "jokic supposed to be the counter" even mean?

Yes, Gobert was the best player in that game. He absolutely dominated the game. The wolves won because the Nuggets were held under 100 points, largely due to Gobert completely shutting down the paint for the Nuggets as a whole. Not any one player...but the whole team. You counter that with shooting from outside, not by trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.

This doesn't negate that Edwards also had a great game, but he's going to be called on to do that because his skills and abilities would be hard to counter with how the Nuggets defense plays. So the nuggets are likely to allow him to continue having these big games...they have to find a way to score more points. That remains their issue, not that Edwards got 40. Denver can give up 106 points a game to the wolves and win the series just fine. They aren't win the series scoring 99.

[HotRocks34]

Jokic is playing the best basketball we've ever seen but it doesn't matter when you can pack the paint on defense with the DPOY because Gordon can't shoot and you don't really have to guard a struggling, gimpy #2 option.

Everything is easier then as a defense.

The only guy Minny is worried about is Jokic. I mean they were even using double teams with him and they rarely do that.

A great team beats a great player. Doesn't matter who the player is. Pistons-Jordan, Warriors-LeBron.

Denver has work to do this summer.

[dhsilv2]

If you're primary skill is scoring than league average TS% is a problem. If you're not, and that isn't Jokic's then it's just fine. The problem with Jokic in game was was the turnovers. But and this can't be stressed enough. Gobert just put on a master class in game 1. We need to give credit to him and the wolves defense before we start to be critical of the Denver offense.

But it is a problem, specifically for Denver, because their competitive advantage orbits his scoring efficiency. And it affects possession control, and it affects the impact of how well his teammates play, and and.

I'm not saying Jokic is terrible for it, I'm saying it just wasn't an awesome game from him. Yes, Minny did an excellent job, and part of what I had said was that other top-tier stars have had the same problem in similar circumstances, remember.

But that doesn't mean we need to glow up Jokic's performance. Weak efficiency with lots of turnovers isn't awesome. It is understandable, but those are not the same thing.

Average efficiency when a player has to take extra shots...which jokic did in the first half isn't poor efficiency. Jokic's efficiency drops with volume as does nearly everyone who doesn't increase it solely due to hot shooting.

Again, the issue was the turnovers. He had 4 vs 8 and the nuggets likely win that game.

I'm not saying Jokic was good here. I think he was a below average game from him, but turnovers were the bigger issue and perhaps not being as aggressive as needed on the glass.

[tsherkin]

Average efficiency when a player has to take extra shots...which jokic did in the first half isn't poor efficiency. Jokic's efficiency drops with volume as does nearly everyone who doesn't increase it solely due to hot shooting.

We can agree to disagree on that one.

I will agree, however, that the turnovers were a larger problem than the scoring efficiency. And yes, I agree that this was a "below average" game as opposed to a horrible one or anything of the sort, that's all I was saying. Raps in 4 was implying that it was "fine," and it wasn't. It was a problem, it caused issues for their ability to win the game. It wasn't the primary issue and it was both far from the worst thing ever and an understandable performance, I can certainly agree on that.

I'm not saying Jokic was good here. I think he was a below average game from him, but turnovers were the bigger issue and perhaps not being as aggressive as needed on the glass.

Indeed.

[HotRocks34]

The Wolves are selling out to stop Jokic, the only Nugget they fear.

What that means is that if the Denver Others don't step up, the party is over.

[Froob]

C'mon Jokic you're better than Prime LeBron
You should've won this game

LeBron wins that game, Kobe wins that game, Tim Duncan wins that game, Michael Jordan...you guessed it, wins that game.

[hardenASG13]

Did you even watch the game? No...a player doesn't counter another player. That isn't how basketball is played. I just can't even...

Basketball isn't a game of one on one matchups.

Yes, I watched the game. Gobert wasn't the best player on the wolves. That was Edward's. Did you watch it? Do you understand basketball, at all?

Don't put words in my mouth, unless you don't understand how to talk basketball and really can only post advanced stats or nitpick wording when youre wrong. You said Denver didn't have a counter for Gobert. I say that Jokic is supposed to be that counter, as a guy who is supposed to be playing the best basketball we've ever seen. He's supposed to be able to dominate, regardless of who is in front of him. I'm not saying a player counters another player. I'm saying a guy who is supposed to be playing at a GOAT peak should be able to step up and overcome whatever defense is thrown at him. I've seen people harping on Lebron for losing in 2011, and it's a blemish on him for sure. But I'd seen him dominate and be the undisputed best player in series prior to that when he didnt have the best team. Because that's what all time players do. Jokic needs to step up, and if you watched the game I'm not sure how or why youd disagree with that? Or if your saying Goberts "masterclass" was too much to overcome, maybe it's time to question if the numbers suggesting he's playing the best basketball we've ever seen are misleading, if he can be taken out of his game by Gobert and team defensive concept. This is what I've been waiting for, some legit competition for him. He absolutely needs to step up, Minny isn't playing around.

You're just talking nonsense. What does "jokic supposed to be the counter" even mean?

Yes, Gobert was the best player in that game. He absolutely dominated the game. The wolves won because the Nuggets were held under 100 points, largely due to Gobert completely shutting down the paint for the Nuggets as a whole. Not any one player...but the whole team. You counter that with shooting from outside, not by trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.

This doesn't negate that Edwards also had a great game, but he's going to be called on to do that because his skills and abilities would be hard to counter with how the Nuggets defense plays. So the nuggets are likely to allow him to continue having these big games...they have to find a way to score more points. That remains their issue, not that Edwards got 40. Denver can give up 106 points a game to the wolves and win the series just fine. They aren't win the series scoring 99.

Jokic is supposed to be the counter means he's supposed to be playing this GOAT basketball. A defender or team concept shouldn't be able to take him out of his game so much as it did in game 1. He's supposed to be the one who elevates his teams offense, raises teammates confidence, leads with his energy. They took away the normal passes he likes to make and he was frazzled. He didn't want to take some shots. He needs to lead, bring energy, and figure out how to be the counter to what Minny is doing. In my opinion, based on game 1 and minnesotas strategy, that would mean looking to score more and bringing some energy his team and the crowd can get behind. He didn't make that recognition in game 1, and it resulted in crushing turnovers that cost them the game.