Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic

Moderators: infinite11285, Domejandro, Harry Garris, ken6199, Dirk, bisme37, KingDavid, zimpy27, bwgood77, cupcakesnake

Mirotic12
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,461
And1: 2,495
Joined: Jun 29, 2014

Re: Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic 

Post#41 » by Mirotic12 » Mon May 13, 2024 8:23 pm

Ryoga Hibiki wrote:I don't know what the myth about Drazen is supposed to be, but the guy was super legit.
The way he got there was also super impressive, in particular the mental fortitude to reach the top and then accept to restart facing all the prejudice. He then worked on his body, his defense, focused on his strenghts and became an all nba level guy.
I think he would have had a legit chance to peak as a top10 guy, as he could have brought back the handling and passing game he had in Europe as he became an established star in the NBA.


Yes, Drazen was a great player of course. But he does have some ridiculous myths associated to him. Probably around as bad as Galis' and Oscar's myths, although not as bad as Sabonis' myths. But still, pretty over the top nonetheless.

Some ridiculous Drazen myths that you will regularly see being mentioned in any discussion about him:

1. That he scored 112 points in a EuroLeague game - while in reality, he scored 112 points in a Yugoslav league game, while playing against an under age 16 team.

2. That he won 4 EuroLeague championships - while in reality, he won 2.

3. That he was averaging out of this world scoring numbers in Europe in the 80s. You regularly see claims like 50, 60, or even 70 or 80 points a game for his scoring average being claimed - while in reality, he was anywhere from the low teens to the thirties in scoring average in various European leagues in that time.

4. That he was averaging like 20-25 assists a game in Europe in the early to mid 80s. You see that claim all the time also - while in reality, they didn't even keep track of assists in most box scores stats in European leagues until the late 80s, and they didn't even actually count them as an officially tracked and kept stat until the 90s. And at that time when they did make it an official stat, they were counted much more stringently.

I could go on with some more such totally ridiculous myths, but that already is more than enough to show what kind of hyperbolic myths often surround Drazen.
dhsilv2
RealGM
Posts: 43,437
And1: 22,998
Joined: Oct 04, 2015

Re: Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic 

Post#42 » by dhsilv2 » Mon May 13, 2024 8:45 pm

I really want to know what video's people have of Sabonis where they think he's even close to Jokic. Young Sabonis could run and jump like a deer. He wasn't anything like Jokic in the half court. Older Sabonis was turnover prone, had all kinds of tricks and nice moves but he was hardly effective enough to see an MVP level player.

This is just nonsense.
AleksandarN
Head Coach
Posts: 6,861
And1: 9,026
Joined: Aug 08, 2002

Re: Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic 

Post#43 » by AleksandarN » Mon May 13, 2024 9:31 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:I really want to know what video's people have of Sabonis where they think he's even close to Jokic. Young Sabonis could run and jump like a deer. He wasn't anything like Jokic in the half court. Older Sabonis was turnover prone, had all kinds of tricks and nice moves but he was hardly effective enough to see an MVP level player.

This is just nonsense.

How many people actually seen Sabonis play in Europe? Or are they going off of the limited highlight reels on YouTube. Because anyone can look good on YouTube. That’s not to say Sabonis was not great. I truly don’t know. I never seen him pre injury
AleksandarN
Head Coach
Posts: 6,861
And1: 9,026
Joined: Aug 08, 2002

Re: Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic 

Post#44 » by AleksandarN » Mon May 13, 2024 9:34 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Ryoga Hibiki wrote:I don't know what the myth about Drazen is supposed to be, but the guy was super legit.
The way he got there was also super impressive, in particular the mental fortitude to reach the top and then accept to restart facing all the prejudice. He then worked on his body, his defense, focused on his strenghts and became an all nba level guy.
I think he would have had a legit chance to peak as a top10 guy, as he could have brought back the handling and passing game he had in Europe as he became an established star in the NBA.


Yes, Drazen was a great player of course. But he does have some ridiculous myths associated to him. Probably around as bad as Galis' and Oscar's myths, although not as bad as Sabonis' myths. But still, pretty over the top nonetheless.

Some ridiculous Drazen myths that you will regularly see being mentioned in any discussion about him:

1. That he scored 112 points in a EuroLeague game - while in reality, he scored 112 points in a Yugoslav league game, while playing against an under age 16 team.

2. That he won 4 EuroLeague championships - while in reality, he won 2.

3. That he was averaging out of this world scoring numbers in Europe in the 80s. You regularly see claims like 50, 60, or even 70 or 80 points a game for his scoring average being claimed - while in reality, he was anywhere from the low teens to the thirties in scoring average in various European leagues in that time.

4. That he was averaging like 20-25 assists a game in Europe in the early to mid 80s. You see that claim all the time also - while in reality, they didn't even keep track of assists in most box scores stats in European leagues until the late 80s, and they didn't even actually count them as an officially tracked and kept stat until the 90s. And at that time when they did make it an official stat, they were counted much more stringently.

I could go on with some more such totally ridiculous myths, but that already is more than enough to show what kind of hyperbolic myths often surround Drazen.

Drazen is probably the best half Serb ever to play basketball even better than half Serb Luka. That’s how good he was
dhsilv2
RealGM
Posts: 43,437
And1: 22,998
Joined: Oct 04, 2015

Re: Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic 

Post#45 » by dhsilv2 » Mon May 13, 2024 9:45 pm

AleksandarN wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:I really want to know what video's people have of Sabonis where they think he's even close to Jokic. Young Sabonis could run and jump like a deer. He wasn't anything like Jokic in the half court. Older Sabonis was turnover prone, had all kinds of tricks and nice moves but he was hardly effective enough to see an MVP level player.

This is just nonsense.

How many people actually seen Sabonis play in Europe? Or are they going off of the limited highlight reels on YouTube. Because anyone can look good on YouTube. That’s not to say Sabonis was not great. I truly don’t know. I never seen him pre injury


I've watched his youngish games vs Robinson for example. I saw him in the NBA. I won't call myself an expert by any means, but I saw two night and day different players. The magical hybrid of the two IMO isn't on film that I'm aware of. And I'm not even the sure the hybrid is even that great vs jokic. He'd be amazing mind you....
Wallace_Wallace
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,914
And1: 6,251
Joined: Jul 28, 2017
     

Re: Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic 

Post#46 » by Wallace_Wallace » Mon May 13, 2024 9:53 pm

AleksandarN wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:I really want to know what video's people have of Sabonis where they think he's even close to Jokic. Young Sabonis could run and jump like a deer. He wasn't anything like Jokic in the half court. Older Sabonis was turnover prone, had all kinds of tricks and nice moves but he was hardly effective enough to see an MVP level player.

This is just nonsense.

How many people actually seen Sabonis play in Europe? Or are they going off of the limited highlight reels on YouTube. Because anyone can look good on YouTube. That’s not to say Sabonis was not great. I truly don’t know. I never seen him pre injury


Though his highlights are impressive (his passes were certainly ballsy), his assist to turnover ratio (964 to 837) in the pros was not something I can overlook. It’s good for a big to have more assists than turnovers, but I can’t elevate him to be this athletic freak who’s also a 3 level scorer like Jokic is.
dhsilv2
RealGM
Posts: 43,437
And1: 22,998
Joined: Oct 04, 2015

Re: Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic 

Post#47 » by dhsilv2 » Mon May 13, 2024 10:02 pm

Wallace_Wallace wrote:
AleksandarN wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:I really want to know what video's people have of Sabonis where they think he's even close to Jokic. Young Sabonis could run and jump like a deer. He wasn't anything like Jokic in the half court. Older Sabonis was turnover prone, had all kinds of tricks and nice moves but he was hardly effective enough to see an MVP level player.

This is just nonsense.

How many people actually seen Sabonis play in Europe? Or are they going off of the limited highlight reels on YouTube. Because anyone can look good on YouTube. That’s not to say Sabonis was not great. I truly don’t know. I never seen him pre injury


Though his highlights are impressive (his passes were certainly ballsy), his assist to turnover ratio (964 to 837) in the pros was not something I can overlook. It’s good for a big to have more assists than turnovers, but I can’t elevate him to be this athletic freak who’s also a 3 level scorer like Jokic is.


Well because he wasn't. When he was an athletic freak, he mostly scored at the rim. As he got older he had to develop more skills and sure as hell did. As best I can read and seen...there wasn't really a version of him with a 3 point shot, a mid range jumper, a sick post game....and the ability to sprint the court for a dunk.
User avatar
JasonStern
RealGM
Posts: 11,726
And1: 3,980
Joined: Dec 13, 2008
 

Re: Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic 

Post#48 » by JasonStern » Tue May 14, 2024 1:29 am

Everyone is talking Sabonis vs. Jokic as GOAT big man as if Blake Griffin didn't once jump over the fender of a Kia.
Image
"I don't get timeouts. You're getting paid millions. Go do basketball things."
- Chauncey Billups
Mirotic12
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,461
And1: 2,495
Joined: Jun 29, 2014

Re: Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic 

Post#49 » by Mirotic12 » Tue May 14, 2024 3:21 pm

AleksandarN wrote:Drazen is probably the best half Serb ever to play basketball even better than half Serb Luka. That’s how good he was


It doesn't matter how good he was in terms of there being a lot of ridiculous myths about him. The same with Galis, Schmidt, Sabonis ...

Really great players, but nonetheless all kinds of ridiculous myths about them. No matter how good Drazen actually was, he was not nearly as good as the myths and legends claim he was. The hyperbolic myths and legends about Petrovic aren't at the same level as the ones about Sabonis, but they are still totally absurd.

It doesn't actually have anything to do with him being a great player, because he was. But no player in history was actually as good as the myths and legends claim any of them were. For whatever reason, certain players just have these totally over the top myths about them.

Both things are true. Drazen was a great player, and he was not nearly as good as the myths say he was.
User avatar
LuDux1
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,947
And1: 4,071
Joined: Mar 22, 2009

Re: Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic 

Post#50 » by LuDux1 » Tue May 14, 2024 4:49 pm

JasonStern wrote:Everyone is talking Sabonis vs. Jokic as GOAT big man as if Blake Griffin didn't once jump over the fender of a Kia.


JRoy
RealGM
Posts: 13,073
And1: 10,635
Joined: Feb 27, 2019
 

Re: Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic 

Post#51 » by JRoy » Tue May 14, 2024 5:26 pm

JasonStern wrote:Everyone is talking Sabonis vs. Jokic as GOAT big man as if Blake Griffin didn't once jump over the fender of a Kia.


GOAT Kia jumper.
Edrees wrote:
JRoy wrote:Monta Ellis have it all


I was hoping and expecting this to be one of the first replies. You did not disappoint. Jroy have it all.
User avatar
LuDux1
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,947
And1: 4,071
Joined: Mar 22, 2009

Re: Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic 

Post#52 » by LuDux1 » Wed May 15, 2024 7:27 am

AleksandarN wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:I really want to know what video's people have of Sabonis where they think he's even close to Jokic. Young Sabonis could run and jump like a deer. He wasn't anything like Jokic in the half court. Older Sabonis was turnover prone, had all kinds of tricks and nice moves but he was hardly effective enough to see an MVP level player.

This is just nonsense.

How many people actually seen Sabonis play in Europe? Or are they going off of the limited highlight reels on YouTube. Because anyone can look good on YouTube. That’s not to say Sabonis was not great. I truly don’t know. I never seen him pre injury


Legendary Sabonis vs Kenny Smith game

David Robinson was there too

Heh, "Komitius" TBF Bogues in Lithuanian almanach from 1987 is spelled "Božė"
User avatar
Ryoga Hibiki
RealGM
Posts: 11,254
And1: 6,648
Joined: Nov 14, 2001
Location: Warszawa now, but from Northern Italy

Re: Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic 

Post#53 » by Ryoga Hibiki » Wed May 15, 2024 8:00 am

Mirotic12 wrote:
Ryoga Hibiki wrote:I don't know what the myth about Drazen is supposed to be, but the guy was super legit.
The way he got there was also super impressive, in particular the mental fortitude to reach the top and then accept to restart facing all the prejudice. He then worked on his body, his defense, focused on his strenghts and became an all nba level guy.
I think he would have had a legit chance to peak as a top10 guy, as he could have brought back the handling and passing game he had in Europe as he became an established star in the NBA.


Yes, Drazen was a great player of course. But he does have some ridiculous myths associated to him. Probably around as bad as Galis' and Oscar's myths, although not as bad as Sabonis' myths. But still, pretty over the top nonetheless.

Some ridiculous Drazen myths that you will regularly see being mentioned in any discussion about him:

1. That he scored 112 points in a EuroLeague game - while in reality, he scored 112 points in a Yugoslav league game, while playing against an under age 16 team.

2. That he won 4 EuroLeague championships - while in reality, he won 2.

3. That he was averaging out of this world scoring numbers in Europe in the 80s. You regularly see claims like 50, 60, or even 70 or 80 points a game for his scoring average being claimed - while in reality, he was anywhere from the low teens to the thirties in scoring average in various European leagues in that time.

4. That he was averaging like 20-25 assists a game in Europe in the early to mid 80s. You see that claim all the time also - while in reality, they didn't even keep track of assists in most box scores stats in European leagues until the late 80s, and they didn't even actually count them as an officially tracked and kept stat until the 90s. And at that time when they did make it an official stat, they were counted much more stringently.

I could go on with some more such totally ridiculous myths, but that already is more than enough to show what kind of hyperbolic myths often surround Drazen.


well, you hear BS stuff about everybody, from Wilt to jordon and one day it will be the same about LeBron and Jokic.
But the overall sentiment about Drazen I think is underselling how good he was, while on Sabonis people went to the totally opposite direction.
Слава Украине!
User avatar
Deivork
Starter
Posts: 2,176
And1: 1,874
Joined: Apr 26, 2013

Re: Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic 

Post#54 » by Deivork » Wed May 15, 2024 11:31 am

Poll would be useful
User avatar
LuDux1
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,947
And1: 4,071
Joined: Mar 22, 2009

Re: Arvydas Sabonis vs Jokic 

Post#55 » by LuDux1 » Wed May 15, 2024 12:00 pm

That Jokic almost full court pass tonight was very Sabonis like, just replace Murray with Krapikas or "Komitius"

Return to The General Board