Congratulations Kobe - now #3 for number of 40 point games!!

[Phil Jackson]

Yeah, we support him because he's the Greatest of All Time.

At least he didn't tank.

[Jordan23Forever]

Kobe took a team that went to the Western Conference Finals to 7 games with:

Smush Parker (Worst PG in the League and got him a new contract)
Kwame Brown (Worst Player in the League as people now realize)

And Jordan took eventual champion Detroit to 7 games in the 1990 ECF with his second best player averaging 16/6/4/43% shooting in the series. With his teammates throwing up duds like this in crucial games/quarters:

http://motorcitybadboys.com/box90eastconffinalsgm7.html

He knows he's leaving all of those things out, that's why he posted it in the first place.

Actually you're both wrong. What is at issue is the number of scoring possessions used to generate points. This discussion centered around scoring not all-around game (in which case assists, TO's etc. would be relevant).

Even if you want to use usage rate (or usage % as it's now called on basketball-reference.com), the calculus still supports my argument re: scaling numbers from today for past years based on league average ppg, as some are trying to do. In the years I cited as examples -- Jordan's '90/'91 seasons and '06/'07 for Kobe -- Jordan's usage % was 33.3% on average, while Kobe's was 36.2%. So the argument still holds. Furthermore, this still doesn't fully address the issue, since it's only addressing team possessions, while folks like Bilge are looking at league wide average ppg and trying to scale numbers based on that. So we'd need to know the usage % based on a player's usage of the average team's possessions.

Put simply, if haters like Bgil want to insinuate that it's as simple as scaling numbers based on league average ppg, they have to account for the disparity in number/percent of average possessions used between the two players.

[Kobay]

Yeah, we support him because he's the Greatest of All Time.

At least he didn't tank.

oh snap. snap* snap* snap* mmmhm

[Phil Jackson]

[quote="Jordan23Forever"][/quote]

Kobe Bryant is The Greatest of All Time.

[boomann21]

[quote="G35"][/quote]

6 championships make him the best in all categories. Once Rip's midrange gets good enough for him to win 6 or Lebron's constant attacking of the rim gets him 6 then Mike is the best at everything.

[Phil Jackson]

-= original quote snipped =-



6 championships make him the best in all categories. Once Rip's midrange gets good enough for him to win 6 or Lebron's constant attacking of the rim gets him 6 then Mike is the best at everything.

Kobe Bryant is better.

[JordansBulls]

-= original quote snipped =-



Kobe Bryant is The Greatest of All Time.

Support it!!

MVP's, Finals MVP, Top 3 MVP Voting, Efficiency, etc.

[bballcool34]

-= original quote snipped =-



6 championships make him the best in all categories. Once Rip's midrange gets good enough for him to win 6 or Lebron's constant attacking of the rim gets him 6 then Mike is the best at everything.

Such flawed logic.

Because Jordan won, he's the best at everything? So, Russell as a center is better at everything than any other center in league history?

You can argue that Jordan has the best combined total package of any perimeter player (defense, scoring, clutch, etc.), and I'd fully agree with that.

He's one of or the the best at some of those categories.

But the absolute best at everything just because he won six championships? No. That really is just poor thinking on your part.

[SDChargers#1]

-= original quote snipped =-



Kobe Bryant is The Greatest of All Time.

You are just as bad if not worse than Jordan23Forever and JordanBulls. This is the reason they hijack every Kobe thread.

Kobe is not in Jordan's league yet, Im sorry. Over the past 3 seasons he has been close, but it doesn't compare to the decade that Jordan was the hands down best player.

And for the people who are about to say "no Duncan is better." Please shut it. Duncan is NOT a better player than Kobe. He has had more team success, but that doesn't make him better.

[incontrol__]

Congrats to Kobe. More remarkable is how just 6 months ago he was taking a dump on his teammates and fans, yet the supporters are still here. Kobe got something about him alright lol

Enjoy that 15 game losing streak? I know i did.

[kno]

The moral of this thread?

Jordan > Christ.

[/thread]

[JusBus32]

You Jordan supporters will probably kill yourself if Kobe gets another championship in his prime. Because all you'll hear on the news is how amazing and great Kobe is.

Jordan's name may come up, but Jordan at that point will be a thing of the past. While he is one of the best players ever, people will look at Kobe as the new golden standard for shooting guards in the NBA. In my opinion, he already is.

[Hoops Pimp]

[quote="Jordan23Forever"][/quote]

Why do you continue to attack Kobe so much? I love Kobe and MJ and never bash either. Was there something evil about my post or something I did to attack MJ that you felt like you needed to defend MJ's greatness over Kobe?

[Jordan23Forever]

Jordan's name may come up, but Jordan at that point will be a thing of the past. While he is one of the best players ever, people will look at Kobe as the new golden standard for shooting guards in the NBA. In my opinion, he already is.

It's a good thing most sane people who've seen both of their primes don't share your "opinion," then.

[ImmortalD24]

Jordan fans FEAR Kobe.

[-G-]

Jordan fans FEAR Kobe.

It's really hilarious. So insecure.

[Bgil]

-= original quote snipped =-



Actually you're both wrong. What is at issue is the number of scoring possessions used to generate points. This discussion centered around scoring not all-around game (in which case assists, TO's etc. would be relevant).

Even if you want to use usage rate (or usage % as it's now called on basketball-reference.com), the calculus still supports my argument re: scaling numbers from today for past years based on league average ppg, as some are trying to do. In the years I cited as examples -- Jordan's '90/'91 seasons and '06/'07 for Kobe -- Jordan's usage % was 33.3% on average, while Kobe's was 36.2%. So the argument still holds. Furthermore, this still doesn't fully address the issue, since it's only addressing team possessions, while folks like Bilge are looking at league wide average ppg and trying to scale numbers based on that. So we'd need to know the usage % based on a player's usage of the average team's possessions.

Put simply, if haters like Bgil want to insinuate that it's as simple as scaling numbers based on league average ppg, they have to account for the disparity in number/percent of average possessions used between the two players.

Dude, you're such a liar. I didn't scale anything. I just pointed out that Jordan played in a league where teams regularly scored a lot more points at much higher shooting percentages and using completely different strategies (i.e. very little 3-point shooting). THAT MUCH IS FACT.
Once you consider those things it puts Jordan's numbers (and those of Wilt) in perspective. You're the one trying to insulate how a player from the 80's would have done in 2008 and then calling that "fact". It isn't, period. The game isn't played on a TI-83.

[Jordan23Forever]

-= original quote snipped =-



Dude, you're such a liar. I didn't scale anything. I just pointed out that Jordan played in a league where teams regularly scored a lot more points at much higher shooting percentages and using completely different strategies (i.e. very little 3-point shooting). THAT MUCH IS FACT.
Once you consider those things it puts Jordan's numbers (and those of Wilt) in perspective. You're the one trying to insulate how a player from the 80's would have done in 2008 and then calling that "fact". It isn't, period. The game isn't played on a TI-83.

Nice try, Bilge, but the insinuations in your posts are clear. It's basically begging the question, "if Kobe scored X when teams scored Y, imagine how much he would have scored when teams scored 8-10 ppg more!" It's fallacious reasoning, and I have demonstrated why.

So for you to say that you didn't scale anything is a joke. Yeah, you didn't crunch the numbers, but the implication is obvious. Don't take everyone for fools next time.


As for it putting Jordan's numbers in perspective, one can only do so once one realizes that Jordan used less of his team's (or the league average) possessions as Kobe did to get his points. Allow him to use the same number of possessions back then on a percentage basis and then you'll have actual numbers to "put in perspective" as compared with Kobe's '06/'07 numbers.

[Esko]

My only response to this thread is to say that to the user with the name Kobe>Jordan>God needs to realize that LeBron James owns Kobe in every facet of the game. If I could upgrade Kobe Bryant in every attribute that contributes to being a great basketball player, I would end up with LeBron. The guy's insane. So even continuing with the notion being Kobe is the next Jordan, it needs to end soon. LeBron is and will go down as the best player ever.

[Kobay]

My only response to this thread is to say that to the user with the name Kobe>Jordan>God needs to realize that LeBron James owns Kobe in every facet of the game. If I could upgrade Kobe Bryant in every attribute that contributes to being a great basketball player, I would end up with LeBron. The guy's insane. So even continuing with the notion being Kobe is the next Jordan, it needs to end soon. LeBron is and will go down as the best player ever.

Copy Right Espn