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Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 4:42 pm
by cgf
NY2k1 wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:I'm not a big Melo fan.
But Carmelo was way better than Brunson ever was. He was an MVP top 5 level player while on the Knicks.
No they didn't have much playoff success. But this Knicks team will also inevitably be a 2nd round exit.
A fully healthy Knicks team makes the ECF at a minimum. That still may end up being the case. Granted, the teams are different, but Brunson has already performed better in the playoffs than Melo ever did.
FWIW Melo also never had someone like Julius taking defensive attention away from him as a Knick. Without Randle on the court with him, Brunson's #s dipped a lot and were actually worse than Melo's.
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 4:58 pm
by sip
cgf wrote:NY2k1 wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:I'm not a big Melo fan.
But Carmelo was way better than Brunson ever was. He was an MVP top 5 level player while on the Knicks.
No they didn't have much playoff success. But this Knicks team will also inevitably be a 2nd round exit.
A fully healthy Knicks team makes the ECF at a minimum. That still may end up being the case. Granted, the teams are different, but Brunson has already performed better in the playoffs than Melo ever did.
FWIW Melo also never had someone like Julius taking defensive attention away from him as a Knick. Without Randle on the court with him, Brunson's #s dipped a lot and were actually worse than Melo's.
Huh? Brunson's #s have exploded since Randle went down.
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 5:24 pm
by cgf
sip wrote:cgf wrote:NY2k1 wrote:
A fully healthy Knicks team makes the ECF at a minimum. That still may end up being the case. Granted, the teams are different, but Brunson has already performed better in the playoffs than Melo ever did.
FWIW Melo also never had someone like Julius taking defensive attention away from him as a Knick. Without Randle on the court with him, Brunson's #s dipped a lot and were actually worse than Melo's.
Huh? Brunson's #s have exploded since Randle went down.
His raw #s have gone up and his impact stats have shot up with us now losing the non-Brunson minutes, but his efficiency has gone steadily down...he's almost down to league average now at just 58.8% TS...and last spring the impact was even more pronounced:
Melo for comparison, scored 38.4pts per 100 possessions in the playoffs as a Knick, on an eFG% of 43.3%
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 5:38 pm
by Hello Brooklyn
NY2k1 wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:I'm not a big Melo fan.
But Carmelo was way better than Brunson ever was. He was an MVP top 5 level player while on the Knicks.
No they didn't have much playoff success. But this Knicks team will also inevitably be a 2nd round exit.
A fully healthy Knicks team makes the ECF at a minimum. That still may end up being the case. Granted, the teams are different, but Brunson has already performed better in the playoffs than Melo ever did.
I don't think this Knicks team is as good as you seem to think it is.
What exactly has Brunson done lol. He lost to an 8 seed.
Melo was really good vs the Pacers and had less help than Brunson did.
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 5:42 pm
by DaGawd
Hello Brooklyn wrote:NY2k1 wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:I'm not a big Melo fan.
But Carmelo was way better than Brunson ever was. He was an MVP top 5 level player while on the Knicks.
No they didn't have much playoff success. But this Knicks team will also inevitably be a 2nd round exit.
A fully healthy Knicks team makes the ECF at a minimum. That still may end up being the case. Granted, the teams are different, but Brunson has already performed better in the playoffs than Melo ever did.
I don't think this Knicks team is as good as you seem to think it is.
What exactly has Brunson done lol. He lost to an 8 seed.
Melo was really good vs the Pacers and had less help than Brunson did.
an 8th seed that made the nba finals.. i can’t take none of you nets fans serious
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 5:53 pm
by ShootersShoot
cgf wrote:NY2k1 wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:I'm not a big Melo fan.
But Carmelo was way better than Brunson ever was. He was an MVP top 5 level player while on the Knicks.
No they didn't have much playoff success. But this Knicks team will also inevitably be a 2nd round exit.
A fully healthy Knicks team makes the ECF at a minimum. That still may end up being the case. Granted, the teams are different, but Brunson has already performed better in the playoffs than Melo ever did.
FWIW Melo also never had someone like Julius taking defensive attention away from him as a Knick. Without Randle on the court with him, Brunson's #s dipped a lot and were actually worse than Melo's.
Brunson without Randle since 1/29:
30.6ppg, 57% TS
Melo's best season as a knick (efficiency wise)
28.7ppg, 56% TS
Not to mention the winning record during that time (17-12)..
Plus Brunson's 7.1 apg to 2.6 turnovers, which is absolutely solid considering the scoring volume as well.
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 5:55 pm
by ShootersShoot
DaGawd wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:NY2k1 wrote:
A fully healthy Knicks team makes the ECF at a minimum. That still may end up being the case. Granted, the teams are different, but Brunson has already performed better in the playoffs than Melo ever did.
I don't think this Knicks team is as good as you seem to think it is.
What exactly has Brunson done lol. He lost to an 8 seed.
Melo was really good vs the Pacers and had less help than Brunson did.
an 8th seed that made the nba finals.. i can’t take none of you nets fans serious
We also need to take into consideration it was Brunson's first year as a knick and also first year as a #1 option. Overall, I still am not sure the viability of a guy like Brunson as a #1, but he has been amazing as a member of the knicks.
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 5:58 pm
by NY2k1
Hello Brooklyn wrote:NY2k1 wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:I'm not a big Melo fan.
But Carmelo was way better than Brunson ever was. He was an MVP top 5 level player while on the Knicks.
No they didn't have much playoff success. But this Knicks team will also inevitably be a 2nd round exit.
A fully healthy Knicks team makes the ECF at a minimum. That still may end up being the case. Granted, the teams are different, but Brunson has already performed better in the playoffs than Melo ever did.
I don't think this Knicks team is as good as you seem to think it is.
What exactly has Brunson done lol. He lost to an 8 seed.
Melo was really good vs the Pacers and had less help than Brunson did.
One thing is for sure, they most certainly are better than the Nets, lol.
On the real, check out what a fully healthy Knicks squad did in January and then get back to me. They were the best team in the NBA until injuries kicked in.
As for what he's done in the playoffs - Brunson outplayed Mitchell last season in the playoffs and almost took the Heat to a game 7 by himself.
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 6:11 pm
by cgf
ShootersShoot wrote:cgf wrote:NY2k1 wrote:
A fully healthy Knicks team makes the ECF at a minimum. That still may end up being the case. Granted, the teams are different, but Brunson has already performed better in the playoffs than Melo ever did.
FWIW Melo also never had someone like Julius taking defensive attention away from him as a Knick. Without Randle on the court with him, Brunson's #s dipped a lot and were actually worse than Melo's.
Brunson without Randle since 1/29:
30.6ppg, 57% TS
Melo's best season as a knick (efficiency wise)
28.7ppg, 56% TS
Not to mention the winning record during that time (17-12)..
Plus Brunson's 7.1 apg to 2.6 turnovers, which is absolutely solid considering the scoring volume as well.
That's fair, I assumed we were talking about the playoffs.
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 6:15 pm
by ShootersShoot
cgf wrote:ShootersShoot wrote:cgf wrote:
FWIW Melo also never had someone like Julius taking defensive attention away from him as a Knick. Without Randle on the court with him, Brunson's #s dipped a lot and were actually worse than Melo's.
Brunson without Randle since 1/29:
30.6ppg, 57% TS
Melo's best season as a knick (efficiency wise)
28.7ppg, 56% TS
Not to mention the winning record during that time (17-12)..
Plus Brunson's 7.1 apg to 2.6 turnovers, which is absolutely solid considering the scoring volume as well.
That's fair, I assumed we were talking about the playoffs.
Oh sorry if I had it out of context. I'm not sure how to get those stats, but did Brunson really shoot sub 50% TS with randle off the floor in the POs?
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 6:31 pm
by cgf
ShootersShoot wrote:cgf wrote:ShootersShoot wrote:
Brunson without Randle since 1/29:
30.6ppg, 57% TS
Melo's best season as a knick (efficiency wise)
28.7ppg, 56% TS
Not to mention the winning record during that time (17-12)..
Plus Brunson's 7.1 apg to 2.6 turnovers, which is absolutely solid considering the scoring volume as well.
That's fair, I assumed we were talking about the playoffs.
Oh sorry if I had it out of context. I'm not sure how to get those stats, but did Brunson really shoot sub 50% TS with randle off the floor in the POs?
No worries, I dunno how to get stats for specific dates so your post was interesting to see and relevant to the conversation. I was just explaining why I made my comment the way I did *thumbs up*
I'm not sure how to get those #s without second spectrum either, but when that tweet hit our board / knicks twitter, none of the anti-Randle camp were able to pick it apart. So I assume that it's accurate...and it did fit what we were seeing; as without Julius on the floor Bam & Mobley were free to roam and teams could throw more doubles at Jalen.
Granted, Jalen's playing even better this year, he has more experience as the lone focus of a defense, and he'll have more support in those Brunson-no-Randle minutes this spring. So he's very likely to top those #s, but so far, Julius has been a huge difference maker for Jalen...just like Jalen has been for Julius.
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 7:01 pm
by KnicksGadfly
DaGawd wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:NY2k1 wrote:
A fully healthy Knicks team makes the ECF at a minimum. That still may end up being the case. Granted, the teams are different, but Brunson has already performed better in the playoffs than Melo ever did.
I don't think this Knicks team is as good as you seem to think it is.
What exactly has Brunson done lol. He lost to an 8 seed.
Melo was really good vs the Pacers and had less help than Brunson did.
an 8th seed that made the nba finals.. i can’t take none of you nets fans serious
They’re still delusional. A bunch of them are ready to trade all their assets for Donovan Mitchell. Pretty sad group.
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 7:29 pm
by benhillboy
cgf wrote:benhillboy wrote:Carmelo was always rubbish as his metrics suggest, of course Brunson is that dude.
Knicks 16-3 with OG in the lineup with his obscene +23 on court per 100 tho. Them dudes are really rallying around Jalen as they should.
No need to sell Melo short to hype Brunson. Melo was a fantastic player, but Jalen's surpassing him...and since we didn't have to trade every young asset we had for Jalen, the FO has been able to build the kind of squad around Brunson that Melo didn't ever really get as a knick...even if a lot of that squad has missed significant PT this season.
Where the debate could get interesting would be if a healthy Randle was able to produce in the playoffs like he has been in the regular season, now that he has Brunson at the point. Melo's a higher level scorer than Julius but significantly less of a playmaker & rebounder, and Randle has shown a level defensively when he's locked in & making the right help decisions, that we never got from Melo.
But until a healthy Julius can put up ~25, ~10, ~5 on acceptable efficiency in the playoffs, that conversation has to be on hold...despite Melo's career 51% playoff TS not exactly being a super impressive #.
It’s cool liking Melo, we can agree to disagree. I just was never impressed with him: tunnel vision and poor defensive acumen always hampered his teams IMO. Roster weaknesses be damned, there was no floor raising quality in him (see last year’s Finals contestants Jokic and Butler). The only time I enjoyed the Knicks during his tenure were the Lin-sanity and Kidd-led units.
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 7:33 pm
by cgf
benhillboy wrote:cgf wrote:benhillboy wrote:Carmelo was always rubbish as his metrics suggest, of course Brunson is that dude.
Knicks 16-3 with OG in the lineup with his obscene +23 on court per 100 tho. Them dudes are really rallying around Jalen as they should.
No need to sell Melo short to hype Brunson. Melo was a fantastic player, but Jalen's surpassing him...and since we didn't have to trade every young asset we had for Jalen, the FO has been able to build the kind of squad around Brunson that Melo didn't ever really get as a knick...even if a lot of that squad has missed significant PT this season.
Where the debate could get interesting would be if a healthy Randle was able to produce in the playoffs like he has been in the regular season, now that he has Brunson at the point. Melo's a higher level scorer than Julius but significantly less of a playmaker & rebounder, and Randle has shown a level defensively when he's locked in & making the right help decisions, that we never got from Melo.
But until a healthy Julius can put up ~25, ~10, ~5 on acceptable efficiency in the playoffs, that conversation has to be on hold...despite Melo's career 51% playoff TS not exactly being a super impressive #.
It’s cool liking Melo, we can agree to disagree. I just was never impressed with him: tunnel vision and poor defensive acumen always hampered his teams IMO. Roster weaknesses be damned, there was no floor raising quality in him (see last year’s Finals contestants Jokic and Butler). The only time I enjoyed the Knicks during his tenure were the Lin-sanity and Kidd-led units.
Oh I didn't like Melo. Just gotta acknowledge what he did.
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 8:02 pm
by Ritzo
Stop disrespecting Steve Novak and Pablo Prigioni
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 8:04 pm
by Woodsanity
cgf wrote:sip wrote:cgf wrote:
FWIW Melo also never had someone like Julius taking defensive attention away from him as a Knick. Without Randle on the court with him, Brunson's #s dipped a lot and were actually worse than Melo's.
Huh? Brunson's #s have exploded since Randle went down.
His raw #s have gone up and his impact stats have shot up with us now losing the non-Brunson minutes, but his efficiency has gone steadily down...he's almost down to league average now at just 58.8% TS...and last spring the impact was even more pronounced:
Melo for comparison, scored 38.4pts per 100 possessions in the playoffs as a Knick, on an eFG% of 43.3%
Efficiency for anyone will go down without a reliable 2nd option.
This is normal.
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 8:09 pm
by stuporman
There's one aspect in all the number mashing people do that completely gets ignored, character, and this isn't me saying Melo is a bad character but the level of leadership and culture that Brunson provides to the Knicks surpasses anything Melo brought and did as a Knick.
So if the numbers are comparable, I'm giving the nod to Brunson for what he brings that cannot be captured in stats as clearly because they are the intangibles that make him the best Knick since Ewing. That's my opinion, and you are welcome to disagree, even tell me you do but no numbers crunch will change it.
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 8:09 pm
by Stannis
Lot of people say the "bar is really low". But I think the point is that Brunson was able to do more in 1.5 years as a Knick than Melo did in 6 years as Knick
It is impressive.
Brunson is more than a scorer. He has leadership and ferocity.
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 8:13 pm
by Stannis
Hello Brooklyn wrote:
What exactly has Brunson done lol. He lost to an 8 seed.
That's not really anything to be ashamed about considering the Heat made the finals that year.
And the Knicks only had like 3 more wins than the Heat in the regular season that year.
Re: Jalen Brunson is the best Knick since Patrick Ewing
Posted: Mon Apr 8, 2024 8:25 pm
by iLLmatic860
Hello Brooklyn wrote:NY2k1 wrote:Hello Brooklyn wrote:I'm not a big Melo fan.
But Carmelo was way better than Brunson ever was. He was an MVP top 5 level player while on the Knicks.
No they didn't have much playoff success. But this Knicks team will also inevitably be a 2nd round exit.
A fully healthy Knicks team makes the ECF at a minimum. That still may end up being the case. Granted, the teams are different, but Brunson has already performed better in the playoffs than Melo ever did.
What exactly has Brunson done lol. He lost to an 8 seed.
The same 8 seed Giannis and Tatum lost too? lol