Is Luka overrated?

[Zespetjest]

Jalen Brunson...

Compared to Tatum who played alone against other teams and carried Celtics, right? Or Curry, or Joker, Giannnis… They ALL did it alone without any teammates?

Luka is part of the problem. Brunson and Porzingis were run out of town. There's your championship team right there.

Yeah, you really have no clue what are you talking about.

[Archx]

A little bit. Dribbles the air out of the ball, freezes his teammates, and gives no effort on defense.

From ESPN Zach Lowe.

Opponents have scored only 0.83 points per possession on isolations against Doncic -- 49th among 320 guys who have defended at least 20 such plays, per Second Spectrum. He's even stouter on the block; opponents have managed 0.533 points per possession directly out of post-ups against Doncic -- second lowest among players who have guarded at least 20 such plays.

I guess he does give some effort. And yeah, he freezes out so many of his teammates that when he doesn't play Mavs have a 42% winning % over the years. That's sure a winning formula.

At least try to come up with something more creative than that, it's getting old.

[SelfishPlayer]

Compared to Tatum who played alone against other teams and carried Celtics, right? Or Curry, or Joker, Giannnis… They ALL did it alone without any teammates?

Luka is part of the problem. Brunson and Porzingis were run out of town. There's your championship team right there.

Yeah, you really have no clue what are you talking about.

Missed the playoffs last season without Brunson. The Knicks are currently 3rd and Dallas is 8th. Luka has established that he understands how to individually dominate the NBA. He will now have to learn how to win in the NBA now that Brunson is gone and Luka can't take credit for Brandon's winning pedigree that extends back to college.
I believe that the Mavs let Luka's Scottie Pippen walk away. They tried to erase their mistake when they acquired Kyrie, a similar player to Brunson in many respects, but Kyrie thrives solo, Brunson is a team guy. The Mavs need the team guy.

[Bloodbather]

Jalen Brunson...

Compared to Tatum who played alone against other teams and carried Celtics, right? Or Curry, or Joker, Giannnis… They ALL did it alone without any teammates?

Luka is part of the problem. Brunson and Porzingis were run out of town. There's your championship team right there.

Brunson left the Mavs because he specifically wanted to play for the Knicks, where his father is an assistant coach. Porzingis, on the other hand, only has himself to blame because he thought he was 1B to Dončić's 1A when he clearly was better suited to be a wingman or even a third wheel. Listening to him look back on his time with the Mavs on JJ Redick's podcast, I think he understands this to be the case also, which is why he's much more comfortable with his role with the Celtics.

It's definitely a bummer for the Mavs that the Dončić-Brunson-Porzingis core really only had one proper year together and got broken up after making the Conference Finals, but they didn't really run either of them out of town. Blaming Luka for it especially ridiculous, because him being ball dominant is clearly a winning strategy - you don't buy a Ferrari to drive it like a Honda Civic.

[SelfishPlayer]

Compared to Tatum who played alone against other teams and carried Celtics, right? Or Curry, or Joker, Giannnis… They ALL did it alone without any teammates?

Luka is part of the problem. Brunson and Porzingis were run out of town. There's your championship team right there.

Brunson left the Mavs because he specifically wanted to play for the Knicks, where his father is an assistant coach. Porzingis, on the other hand, only has himself to blame because he thought he was 1B to Dončić's 1A when he clearly was better suited to be a wingman or even a third wheel. Listening to him look back on his time with the Mavs on JJ Redick's podcast, I think he understands this to be the case also, which is why he's much more comfortable with his role with the Celtics.

It's definitely a bummer for the Mavs that the Dončić-Brunson-Porzingis core really only had one proper year together and got broken up after making the Conference Finals, but they didn't really run either of them out of town. Blaming Luka for it especially ridiculous, because him being ball dominant is clearly a winning strategy - you don't buy a Ferrari to drive it like a Honda Civic.

Missed the playoffs last season with that strategy and currently are 8th...

[Archx]

Luka is part of the problem. Brunson and Porzingis were run out of town. There's your championship team right there.

Yeah, you really have no clue what are you talking about.

Missed the playoffs last season without Brunson. The Knicks are currently 3rd and Dallas is 8th. Luka has established that he understands how to individually dominate the NBA. He will now have to learn how to win in the NBA now that Brunson is gone and Luka can't take credit for Brandon's winning pedigree that extends back to college.
I believe that the Mavs let Luka's Scottie Pippen walk away. They tried to erase their mistake when they acquired Kyrie, a similar player to Brunson in many respects, but Kyrie thrives solo, Brunson is a team guy. The Mavs need the team guy.

You're talking about Jalen Brunson and not Lebron James. You really think he actually carried Mavs or something? How delusional are you?

Mavs missed playoffs last year because insane amount of injuries, just like they have problems this year. They already had the most starting lineup changes out of any team, that's how many issues this team has. Ask any Mavs fan if they can remember when was the last time their starting lineup even played together. Now Lively, who's only 19yo rookie and their only real rim protector, has a broken nose, Exum still has problems and he's in and out of lineup, Kyrie is constantly injured and DJJ almost broke his wrist the other day aswell. Mavs most important players simply can't stay on the floor.

Comparing NYK to Mavs 1:1 is like comparing apples to oranges.

[RSP83]

Yeah he's overrated. I'd gladly take him, i'll trade you the whole Bulls team, including the coaching staff and front office for him. Bulls overpay, but Mavs don't need an overrated player like Luka.

[Bob8]

Timing for this thread seems right. The most efficient 70+ game in the history of Nba and 45 points, 15 assists game.

[Bloodbather]

Luka is part of the problem. Brunson and Porzingis were run out of town. There's your championship team right there.

Brunson left the Mavs because he specifically wanted to play for the Knicks, where his father is an assistant coach. Porzingis, on the other hand, only has himself to blame because he thought he was 1B to Dončić's 1A when he clearly was better suited to be a wingman or even a third wheel. Listening to him look back on his time with the Mavs on JJ Redick's podcast, I think he understands this to be the case also, which is why he's much more comfortable with his role with the Celtics.

It's definitely a bummer for the Mavs that the Dončić-Brunson-Porzingis core really only had one proper year together and got broken up after making the Conference Finals, but they didn't really run either of them out of town. Blaming Luka for it especially ridiculous, because him being ball dominant is clearly a winning strategy - you don't buy a Ferrari to drive it like a Honda Civic.

Missed the playoffs last season with that strategy and currently are 8th...

He's not out there on his own, it's not tennis. They also made the Conference Finals with that strategy two years ago and Dončić wrecked the Suns who had been to the Finals the previous season and won 64 games.

It's pretty obvious that losing Brunson, Porzingis, and Finney-Smith made the Mavs a much worse team. Nobody wins on their own. This season they're an improved but still a very flawed team because they don't have defenders on the wings and their best defender is a rookie. Luka is the least of their problems, give him a properly constructed roster and he's good for a championship run - he's been an excellent Playoff performer. I don't think the fit with Kyrie is that bad either, the dynamic is the same with Brunson. They just lack the defenders to compensate.

[SelfishPlayer]

Yeah, you really have no clue what are you talking about.

Missed the playoffs last season without Brunson. The Knicks are currently 3rd and Dallas is 8th. Luka has established that he understands how to individually dominate the NBA. He will now have to learn how to win in the NBA now that Brunson is gone and Luka can't take credit for Brandon's winning pedigree that extends back to college.
I believe that the Mavs let Luka's Scottie Pippen walk away. They tried to erase their mistake when they acquired Kyrie, a similar player to Brunson in many respects, but Kyrie thrives solo, Brunson is a team guy. The Mavs need the team guy.

You're talking about Jalen Brunson and not Lebron James. You really think he actually carried Mavs or something? How delusional are you?

Mavs missed playoffs last year because insane amount of injuries, just like they have problems this year. They already had the most starting lineup changes out of any team, that's how many issues this team has. Ask any Mavs fan if they can remember when was the last time their starting lineup even played together. Now Lively, who's only 19yo rookie and their only real rim protector, has a broken nose, Exum still has problems and he's in and out of lineup, Kyrie is constantly injured and DJJ almost broke his wrist the other day aswell. Mavs most important players simply can't stay on the floor.

Comparing NYK to Mavs 1:1 is like comparing apples to oranges.

Brunson won two playoff games when Luka was out...

[Andri]

And Luka having better supporting cast that Lebron in his first tenure in Cleveland is revisionist history. Season 08/09, some of the Lebron’s teammates: Mo Williams, Delonte West, Ben Wallace/Anderson Varejao, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, along with Gibson.

It is the same old story. He will go from overrated to underrated depending on his supporting cast. It already happened with many, from Jordan to Giannis or Jokic. The moment he wins a tittle, with the same production but with better teammates, he will be praised. And being 24 yo, my bet is that he will get at least one

[SelfishPlayer]

Brunson left the Mavs because he specifically wanted to play for the Knicks, where his father is an assistant coach. Porzingis, on the other hand, only has himself to blame because he thought he was 1B to Dončić's 1A when he clearly was better suited to be a wingman or even a third wheel. Listening to him look back on his time with the Mavs on JJ Redick's podcast, I think he understands this to be the case also, which is why he's much more comfortable with his role with the Celtics.

It's definitely a bummer for the Mavs that the Dončić-Brunson-Porzingis core really only had one proper year together and got broken up after making the Conference Finals, but they didn't really run either of them out of town. Blaming Luka for it especially ridiculous, because him being ball dominant is clearly a winning strategy - you don't buy a Ferrari to drive it like a Honda Civic.

Missed the playoffs last season with that strategy and currently are 8th...

He's not out there on his own, it's not tennis. They also made the Conference Finals with that strategy two years ago and Dončić wrecked the Suns who had been to the Finals the previous season and won 64 games.

It's pretty obvious that losing Brunson, Porzingis, and Finney-Smith made the Mavs a much worse team. Nobody wins on their own. This season they're an improved but still a very flawed team because they don't have defenders on the wings and their best defender is a rookie. Luka is the least of their problems, give him a properly constructed roster and he's good for a championship run - he's been an excellent Playoff performer. I don't think the fit with Kyrie is that bad either, the dynamic is the same with Brunson. They just lack the defenders to compensate.

The problem is that LeBron during his prime was a championship contenting team all by himself. Pairing Kyrie with Luka works offensively but they both lack defense. If Luka absolutely doesn't alter his game by sharing the ball and/or playing defense, then his teams will continue to struggle. Kawhi is probably the only player Luka could be paired with that fits more seemlessly than a scoring PG.

[Archx]

Missed the playoffs last season without Brunson. The Knicks are currently 3rd and Dallas is 8th. Luka has established that he understands how to individually dominate the NBA. He will now have to learn how to win in the NBA now that Brunson is gone and Luka can't take credit for Brandon's winning pedigree that extends back to college.
I believe that the Mavs let Luka's Scottie Pippen walk away. They tried to erase their mistake when they acquired Kyrie, a similar player to Brunson in many respects, but Kyrie thrives solo, Brunson is a team guy. The Mavs need the team guy.

You're talking about Jalen Brunson and not Lebron James. You really think he actually carried Mavs or something? How delusional are you?

Mavs missed playoffs last year because insane amount of injuries, just like they have problems this year. They already had the most starting lineup changes out of any team, that's how many issues this team has. Ask any Mavs fan if they can remember when was the last time their starting lineup even played together. Now Lively, who's only 19yo rookie and their only real rim protector, has a broken nose, Exum still has problems and he's in and out of lineup, Kyrie is constantly injured and DJJ almost broke his wrist the other day aswell. Mavs most important players simply can't stay on the floor.

Comparing NYK to Mavs 1:1 is like comparing apples to oranges.

Brunson won two playoff games when Luka was out...

Jazz never even doubled Brunson and Maxi Kleber shot 15-20 from 3 in those 2 games aswell. Still huge credit to Brunson but Mavs in regular season still had a losing % only with him. So, don't try to make it something more than it was.

But where was Brunson when Luka was torching LAC two seasons in a row and needed help? Where was Brunson vs GSW in WCF when Curry and Klay were cooking him on perimeter? But i guess those 2 games vs Jazz proved that Brunson was the best player on the planet.

[SelfishPlayer]

You're talking about Jalen Brunson and not Lebron James. You really think he actually carried Mavs or something? How delusional are you?

Mavs missed playoffs last year because insane amount of injuries, just like they have problems this year. They already had the most starting lineup changes out of any team, that's how many issues this team has. Ask any Mavs fan if they can remember when was the last time their starting lineup even played together. Now Lively, who's only 19yo rookie and their only real rim protector, has a broken nose, Exum still has problems and he's in and out of lineup, Kyrie is constantly injured and DJJ almost broke his wrist the other day aswell. Mavs most important players simply can't stay on the floor.

Comparing NYK to Mavs 1:1 is like comparing apples to oranges.

Brunson won two playoff games when Luka was out...

Jazz never even doubled Brunson and Maxi Kleber shot 15-20 from 3 in those 2 games aswell. Still huge credit to Brunson but Mavs in regular season still had a losing % only with him. So, don't try to make it something more than it was.

But where was Brunson when Luka was torching LAC two seasons in a row and needed help? Where was Brunson vs GSW in WCF when Curry and Klay were cooking him on perimeter? But i guess those 2 games vs Jazz proved that Brunson was the best player on the planet.

The Mavs intentionally tried to diminish Brunson's value by artificially keeping him as a reserve for longer than his talent warranted. Low balling him was confirmation. He's gone now and is an All Star while leading his team to the playoffs. Pay attention to how Knicks fans don't cry about losing Randall or lower their expectations of making the playoffs now that Randall is out.

[Archx]

Brunson won two playoff games when Luka was out...

Jazz never even doubled Brunson and Maxi Kleber shot 15-20 from 3 in those 2 games aswell. Still huge credit to Brunson but Mavs in regular season still had a losing % only with him. So, don't try to make it something more than it was.

But where was Brunson when Luka was torching LAC two seasons in a row and needed help? Where was Brunson vs GSW in WCF when Curry and Klay were cooking him on perimeter? But i guess those 2 games vs Jazz proved that Brunson was the best player on the planet.

The Mavs intentionally tried to diminish Brunson's value by artificially keeping him as a reserve for longer than his talent warranted. Low balling him was confirmation.

Please tell me you're joking? If not, go and re-watch first few years all the way to when their WCF run started.

Only when Kidd gave Brunson freedom and unlocked him, he started playing really good, but that was only starting to happen when playoffs arrived. Mavs FO refused to re-sign him 3 times in that season because they didn't believe in his value, even though his dad only wanted 55M for 4 years. You're literally trying to reinvent history here.

[SelfishPlayer]

Jazz never even doubled Brunson and Maxi Kleber shot 15-20 from 3 in those 2 games aswell. Still huge credit to Brunson but Mavs in regular season still had a losing % only with him. So, don't try to make it something more than it was.

But where was Brunson when Luka was torching LAC two seasons in a row and needed help? Where was Brunson vs GSW in WCF when Curry and Klay were cooking him on perimeter? But i guess those 2 games vs Jazz proved that Brunson was the best player on the planet.

The Mavs intentionally tried to diminish Brunson's value by artificially keeping him as a reserve for longer than his talent warranted. Low balling him was confirmation.

Please tell me you're joking? If not, go and re-watch first few years all the way to when their WCF run started.

Only when Kidd gave Brunson freedom and unlocked him, he started playing really good, but that was only starting to happen when playoffs arrived. Mavs FO refused to re-sign him 3 times in that season because they didn't believe in his value, even though his dad only wanted 55M for 4 years. You're literally trying to reinvent history here.

The Mavs depressed his market intentionally. He should have a max contract right now.

[dhsilv2]

It just doesn’t seem possible for his diet to be that bad -

For all we knew he drinks a 24 pack a night. A guy his size and age, that isn't THAT crazy to imagine. I worked with a guy back in my early 20's who was an elite power lifter, similar age to me at the time. He ended up in rehab due to his drinking a 1.75 of vodka a day, and never missed a workout and kept getting strong. But he never looked remotely like a guy pulling 800+. He was not that classic "fat but round fat" power lifter. he legit was sloppy fat in places. He came back from that and was night and day different looking. No other changes...

Lots of assumptions here.

That was the complete opposite of a post with assumptions...

[Mr B]

He gave last year's 64-win Suns team the most embarrassing beatdown in NBA playoff history, so he's obviously doing something right. And the fact that he's already made it as far in the playoffs as Harden, Nash, and CP3 despite playing with a roster half as talented as any of those guys had bodes well for his future prospects. You haters are like vultures, just circling around and chomping at the bit for an opportunity to spew some hate.

Jalen Brunson...

Compared to Tatum who played alone against other teams and carried Celtics, right? Or Curry, or Joker, Giannnis… They ALL did it alone without any teammates?

That’s evident by all of Tatum’s championships right?

[Impuniti]

Compared to Tatum who played alone against other teams and carried Celtics, right? Or Curry, or Joker, Giannnis… They ALL did it alone without any teammates?

Luka is part of the problem. Brunson and Porzingis were run out of town. There's your championship team right there.

Brunson left the Mavs because he specifically wanted to play for the Knicks, where his father is an assistant coach. Porzingis, on the other hand, only has himself to blame because he thought he was 1B to Dončić's 1A when he clearly was better suited to be a wingman or even a third wheel. Listening to him look back on his time with the Mavs on JJ Redick's podcast, I think he understands this to be the case also, which is why he's much more comfortable with his role with the Celtics.

It's definitely a bummer for the Mavs that the Dončić-Brunson-Porzingis core really only had one proper year together and got broken up after making the Conference Finals, but they didn't really run either of them out of town. Blaming Luka for it especially ridiculous, because him being ball dominant is clearly a winning strategy - you don't buy a Ferrari to drive it like a Honda Civic.

That is certainly a revisionist take. Porz was not just blaming himself, he said it didn't work from both guys. Reality is both guys left him. If he was that great to work with stars, they wouldn't have. Porz realizing he was a diva then =/= Luka isn't one as well. He clearly didn't like being part of the winning strategy where he sees Luka pound the ball for long periods as he stays in the corner.

As for it being a winning strategy, we'll see. So far in his career, he's a white Harden that started dominating at an early age.

[Archx]

Luka is part of the problem. Brunson and Porzingis were run out of town. There's your championship team right there.

Brunson left the Mavs because he specifically wanted to play for the Knicks, where his father is an assistant coach. Porzingis, on the other hand, only has himself to blame because he thought he was 1B to Dončić's 1A when he clearly was better suited to be a wingman or even a third wheel. Listening to him look back on his time with the Mavs on JJ Redick's podcast, I think he understands this to be the case also, which is why he's much more comfortable with his role with the Celtics.

It's definitely a bummer for the Mavs that the Dončić-Brunson-Porzingis core really only had one proper year together and got broken up after making the Conference Finals, but they didn't really run either of them out of town. Blaming Luka for it especially ridiculous, because him being ball dominant is clearly a winning strategy - you don't buy a Ferrari to drive it like a Honda Civic.

That is certainly a revisionist take. Porz was not just blaming himself, he said it didn't work from both guys. Reality is both guys left him. If he was that great to work with stars, they wouldn't have. Porz realizing he was a diva then =/= Luka isn't one as well. He clearly didn't like being part of the winning strategy where he sees Luka pound the ball for long periods as he stays in the corner.

As for it being a winning strategy, we'll see. So far in his career, he's a white Harden that started dominating at an early age.

I see you're also trying to reinvent the history.

Porzingis was traded, he never left. He actually wanted to leave because he was mad at Rick how he was using him, he didn't want to put him in the post like KP wanted because he was too weak and Rick didn't like post plays anymore, look up the interview. And then when Rick resigned, Kidd traveled to Latvia and told KP he'll start using him more like he wanted and he did, KP decided to stay. But his injuries were a constant issue and Mavs traded him.

Brunson's dad offered Mavs 3x deals, worth 55/4 and each time Mavs declined. After the trade deadline and when playoffs arrived, NYK offered 2 times more money and Brunson's dad had enough of Cuban's crap so they didn't even grant Mavs an interview. Also a very well documented story by now told by Jalen and his dad over and over again.