Refs steal a possession from Pacers [Update]Official complaint filed for 78 Bad Calls

[The Corey's]

Knicks fans all wilding and defensive mode over a call they should objectively be agreeing changed the outcome of the game.

It's not a debate. It happened. We all saw it.

[DaGawd]

NBA badly wants Knicks to proceed as much as possible: East final, NBA final and finally NBA champion. But Knicks has lost lot of respect among NBA community because of all their foul baiting, flopping and referees repeatedly helping them. They might win this way but nobody will respect them.

lol what

LOL this.

Sixers fans complain about the refs. Knicks fans say they are just whining.

Pacers fans complain about the refs. Knicks fans say they are just whining.

Do you detect a pattern here?

And when the fan without a dog in the fight also thinks the Knicks are getting a ridiculous whistle, are they whining too?

Knicks fans should STFU, be happy they are getting the whistle they are getting these playoffs, and pray that they keep getting it.

lmao sixer fans should be the last one to speak on this matter..

[The Corey's]

Read on Twitter

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guys, does this fit the Pacers were robbed narrative?

It fits into the we can rob the pacers during the most important possession because a possession in the first minute of the game didn't go our way.

Stole possession from the pacers. They get it back anyway. Refs say hold my beer we got you on a moving screen where the player is hardly moving and his feet are set when the contact is met.


There isn't a world in this or any universe where if the same thing happened but to the Knicks where the Knicks fans are ok with the call.

[Chanel Bomber]

This is just the rules. You can't review a kicked ball.

Had the refs reviewed it and reversed the call, they would have gone against the rules set by the NBA, and lost their credibility (and possibly their jobs) as NBA referees.

They made the wrong call. It just so happens this one wasn't reviewable.

You want them to be reviewable? Complain to Adam Silver and wait for a rule change to be implemented.

Philly fans stirring chit by complaining about supposed preferential treatment should just be quiet after everything Embiid got away with in the previous series.

The other ref who had CLEAR view of the incident didn't call it. It was the ref whos view was blocked by Brunson and Nesmith who called it. That ref should never have made the call. He just GUESSED.

Criticism of the referee for making the wrong call is fair.

Criticism of the referees for not overturning the call isn't. Because the rule book doesn't allow it.

But from this angle, one can understand that it seemed like a kicked ball. Referees need to make calls. They can't just assume in the action that one of their colleagues had a better angle and delegate if their sense was that a violation occurred. They need some sense of agency to do their job.

[Texas Chuck]

As I said in the game thread, I don't think that call gets made in a late game scenario if Donte didn't do a good sell. But he did, and then you can't overturn it because it was a moving screen. I thought he got nailed watching it live and then was like "hee hee hee" on review but it was still a moving screen.

Successful graduate of the Reggie Miller Academy of Thespians. This was Reggie's master move.

This. Looked like a foul live. Replay its clear DDV flops to sell the call. It was definitely a moving screen. But they are never calling that in that moment without DDV acting as he did.

So its frustrating Im sure for Pacers fans(this includes me as they are my Eastern team) but technically a good call so you just have to live with it. The fake kick ball one is worse. I always wish refs didn't anticipate calls and waited until they saw something. But I also understand they are humans and our minds naturally fill in gaps for us all the time. And I'm sure these guys actively train to try and mitigate that. So even that one is understandable.

Tough calls at the end, but this cold envelope stuff is silly. Look how long the Knicks were largely irrelevant. If the Association was looking to rig things for the big market team, they've absolutely sucked at it.

[DaGawd]

As I said in the game thread, I don't think that call gets made in a late game scenario if Donte didn't do a good sell. But he did, and then you can't overturn it because it was a moving screen. I thought he got nailed watching it live and then was like "hee hee hee" on review but it was still a moving screen.

Successful graduate of the Reggie Miller Academy of Thespians. This was Reggie's master move.

This. Looked like a foul live. Replay its clear DDV flops to sell the call. It was definitely a moving screen. But they are never calling that in that moment without DDV acting as he did.

So its frustrating Im sure for Pacers fans(this includes me as they are my Eastern team) but technically a good call so you just have to live with it. The fake kick ball one is worse. I always wish refs didn't anticipate calls and waited until they saw something. But I also understand they are humans and our minds naturally fill in gaps for us all the time. And I'm sure these guys actively train to try and mitigate that. So even that one is understandable.

Tough calls at the end, but this cold envelope stuff is silly. Look how long the Knicks were largely irrelevant. If the Association was looking to rig things for the big market team, they've absolutely sucked at it.

thank you

[gottamakeit]

How the Refs was won.

The ball clearly CLEARLY CLEANLY went off Nesmith's hands and Pacers have the ball. HOW was that a kicked ball.

In the same clip, that two-armed block by DiVincenzo on Neismith is illegal and should have been called.

[knicksstuff]

Sixers fan here.

Sorry, Pacers fans. The fix is in. We feel your pain. Maxey gets his jersey held AND get fouled in the same play. No call. DDV flops and gets the call.

Take it from a Sixers fan - it is hard to beat the Knicks when you are playing 8 on 5.

But you ignore the refs missing a blatant travel call that allowed Sixers to win game 5. We are also going to ignore Embiid commiting 3 flagrant fouls within minutes of each other in game 3 but being allowed to stay in the game. That doesn't fit the narrative now does it

[Tron Carter]

As I said in the game thread, I don't think that call gets made in a late game scenario if Donte didn't do a good sell. But he did, and then you can't overturn it because it was a moving screen. I thought he got nailed watching it live and then was like "hee hee hee" on review but it was still a moving screen.

Successful graduate of the Reggie Miller Academy of Thespians. This was Reggie's master move.

This. Looked like a foul live. Replay its clear DDV flops to sell the call. It was definitely a moving screen. But they are never calling that in that moment without DDV acting as he did.

So its frustrating Im sure for Pacers fans(this includes me as they are my Eastern team) but technically a good call so you just have to live with it. The fake kick ball one is worse. I always wish refs didn't anticipate calls and waited until they saw something. But I also understand they are humans and our minds naturally fill in gaps for us all the time. And I'm sure these guys actively train to try and mitigate that. So even that one is understandable.

Tough calls at the end, but this cold envelope stuff is silly. Look how long the Knicks were largely irrelevant. If the Association was looking to rig things for the big market team, they've absolutely sucked at it.

it took a while, but the rationale take has finally arrived

[sp6r=underrated]

I genuinely don't know why the NBA is fixed crew watches the NBA. If it is fixed watching the games and getting worked up about the outcomes is absurd. It is similar to complaining about "special guest referees" in the WWE.

I make this analogy before and the ref bashers never give a good response. Steph Curry is the greatest shooter of all time. He will miss 1 in 11 open shots (free throws) in which he has ten seconds to collect himself. Refs have no time to collect themselves against the best athletes in the world. their error rate is very low once you compare it to the Curry's free throw percentage. And guess what sometimes the errors will favor one teams just as if you flip a coin 3 times in a row, sometimes it will all go heads.

Fans have an unrealistic expectation for an acceptable error rate. They can never point to a basketball league with better refs. And they are super biased because they're fans and sometimes bet on games.

Tough calls at the end, but this cold envelope stuff is silly. Look how long the Knicks were largely irrelevant. If the Association was looking to rig things for the big market team, they've absolutely sucked at it.

Thank you. Since 2000:
1. Knicks have the 3rd worst winning percentage.
2. Knicks have the 3rd worst winning percentage.
3. Knicks have the 4th fewest playoff wins.
4. Knicks have won 5 playoff series total.

Wouldn't the Knicks be better if the NBA was going to fix things for the Knicks?

The conspiracy theory the NBA fixes things for the lakers is very stupid but the lakers have at least been elite for most of the NBA's history. With the knicks the theory is beyond dumb.

[JJ_PR]

Did anyone notice Giancarlo Stanton in the background? Lol.

[picc]

I dont believe the refs were fixing the game. I believe they were wildly incompetent and aggressively nonchalant about calling things they didnt actually see based on assumptions. Its not their integrity that needs wholesale review, its their decision making.

[Texas Chuck]

The conspiracy theory the NBA fixes things for the lakers is very stupid but the lakers have at least been elite for most of the NBA's history. With the knicks the theory is beyond dumb.

Markets also just aren't nearly as relevant as they once were. The dominant North American sports league just abandoned LA for two decades and didn't suffer at all.

The issue is most of our media resides in NY or LA or has strong Boston ties. So those 5 teams get more coverage than they should otherwise, but media noise is way different from a league risking their credibility for no real gain. Would they like the Knicks to be great? Yeah, of course they would. But they aren't going to help them get there.

[bebopdeluxe]

This is just the rules. You can't review a kicked ball.

Had the refs reviewed it and reversed the call, they would have gone against the rules set by the NBA, and lost their credibility (and possibly their jobs) as NBA referees.

They made the wrong call. It just so happens this one wasn't reviewable.

You want them to be reviewable? Complain to Adam Silver and wait for a rule change to be implemented.

Philly fans stirring chit by complaining about supposed preferential treatment should just be quiet after everything Embiid got away with in the previous series.

All the stuff Embiid got away with?

Brunson got away with at least 3-5 of the Trae Young fouls (which has been outlawed), for a start. I was behind one of the baskets for Game 6 - it is a JOKE that DDV only had one foul called on him…while he acts like he was SHOT on that so-called “foul” on Turner.

Knicks fans should just STFU and accept the whistle they have been getting.

Seriously.

[bebopdeluxe]

Knicks fans all wilding and defensive mode over a call they should objectively be agreeing changed the outcome of the game.

It's not a debate. It happened. We all saw it.

They have been doing it the entire playoffs. Gettin a joke whistle and then trying to defend it.

They should just be thankful and be quiet.

[DaGawd]

This is just the rules. You can't review a kicked ball.

Had the refs reviewed it and reversed the call, they would have gone against the rules set by the NBA, and lost their credibility (and possibly their jobs) as NBA referees.

They made the wrong call. It just so happens this one wasn't reviewable.

You want them to be reviewable? Complain to Adam Silver and wait for a rule change to be implemented.

Philly fans stirring chit by complaining about supposed preferential treatment should just be quiet after everything Embiid got away with in the previous series.

All the stuff Embiid got away with?

Brunson got away with at least 3-5 of the Trae Young fouls (which has been outlawed), for a start. I was behind one of the baskets for Game 6 - it is a JOKE that DDV only had one foul called on him…while he acts like he was SHOT on that so-called “foul” on Turner.

Knicks fans should just STFU and accept the whistle they have been getting.

Seriously.

still mad you got smacked despite having the refs in your back pocket huh… i would be too… y’all just ass

[sp6r=underrated]

The conspiracy theory the NBA fixes things for the lakers is very stupid but the lakers have at least been elite for most of the NBA's history. With the knicks the theory is beyond dumb.

Markets also just aren't nearly as relevant as they once were. The dominant North American sports league just abandoned LA for two decades and didn't suffer at all.

This, I'll disagree with. For non-NFL leagues markets matter a lot. In the NFL, cities are basically tv sets. All the games are on national tv once a week. And the players only have to live there 4 months of the years for the RS.

In the non-NFL leagues most revenue is local, most games are on local tv and the season is 2+ months longer. All of that makes markets matter a lot more in these leagues.

Smaller market teams will have a hard time generating revenue. And they'll have a harder time attracting free agents since players have to commit in the city for a longer period of time.

My more callous take, which I think is correct is that is is perfectly fine if large market teams have an easier time attracting free agents or getting media attention. A level playing field (financially or for attention) shouldn't be the goal. the goal should be to ensure every franchise can compete. And the NBA easily clears that hurdle.

[ForeverTFC]

The conspiracy theory the NBA fixes things for the lakers is very stupid but the lakers have at least been elite for most of the NBA's history. With the knicks the theory is beyond dumb.

Markets also just aren't nearly as relevant as they once were. The dominant North American sports league just abandoned LA for two decades and didn't suffer at all.

The issue is most of our media resides in NY or LA or has strong Boston ties. So those 5 teams get more coverage than they should otherwise, but media noise is way different from a league risking their credibility for no real gain. Would they like the Knicks to be great? Yeah, of course they would. But they aren't going to help them get there.

It may not be systemic bias for all the reasons you suggest but it's hard - in my opinion - to claim that individual bias is only a media phenomenon. The NBA referee association has only publicly apologized once for a missed call, and it was an apology to Lebron and the Lakers.

[sp6r=underrated]

The conspiracy theory the NBA fixes things for the lakers is very stupid but the lakers have at least been elite for most of the NBA's history. With the knicks the theory is beyond dumb.

Markets also just aren't nearly as relevant as they once were. The dominant North American sports league just abandoned LA for two decades and didn't suffer at all.

The issue is most of our media resides in NY or LA or has strong Boston ties. So those 5 teams get more coverage than they should otherwise, but media noise is way different from a league risking their credibility for no real gain. Would they like the Knicks to be great? Yeah, of course they would. But they aren't going to help them get there.

It may not be systemic bias for all the reasons you suggest but it's hard - in my opinion - to claim that individual bias is only a media phenomenon. The NBA referee association has only publicly apologized once for a missed call, and it was an apology to Lebron and the Lakers.

That isn't true. I'll try to find the quote but Stern acknowledged after Game 6 Kings-Lakers there were blown calls in LA's favor (specifically Kobe's elbow to Bibby). And the NBA issues a L2M report constantly pointing out errors.

The plain fact is the evidence the NBA fixes games or demonstrates a systemic bias towards the Lakers or in this case the Knicks isn't strong.

[ForeverTFC]

Markets also just aren't nearly as relevant as they once were. The dominant North American sports league just abandoned LA for two decades and didn't suffer at all.

The issue is most of our media resides in NY or LA or has strong Boston ties. So those 5 teams get more coverage than they should otherwise, but media noise is way different from a league risking their credibility for no real gain. Would they like the Knicks to be great? Yeah, of course they would. But they aren't going to help them get there.

It may not be systemic bias for all the reasons you suggest but it's hard - in my opinion - to claim that individual bias is only a media phenomenon. The NBA referee association has only publicly apologized once for a missed call, and it was an apology to Lebron and the Lakers.

That isn't true. I'll try to find the quote but Stern acknowledged after Game 6 Kings-Lakers there were blown calls in LA's favor (specifically Kobe's elbow to Bibby). And the NBA issues a L2M report constantly pointing out errors.

The plain fact is the evidence the NBA fixes games or demonstrates a systemic bias towards the Lakers or in this case the Knicks isn't strong.

I never said it was systemic bias. In fact I agreed that there is likely very little of that. I said it is more likely to be personal bias.

And the L2M report and Stern are not the NBA Referees Association, so I'm not sure how the claim I made is not true?