RealGM

Move KD and Booker while they can. Promote Beal to tank commander.

Godymas wrote:

Hair Jordan wrote:What era? They haven’t done sh-t.

the Devin Booker era obviously, please be serious when posting

the Devin Booker era is not as impressive as the Mike Conley era Are you going to post one about him?

The Sun Setters

It's sort of like the Retirement home era.
Top 3 guys are 35, 30, 27. Not alot of depth.
No draft pick relief untill 2028 (2nd rounder)

Your 1% situation is 0%. Jaylen Brown has way more value than Beal based on age, availability, and basketball ability. Phoenix can't really sweeten the pot at all because no draft picks. If the Celtics trade Brown they can do way better than Beal.

I understand he has a huge contract but so does Beal and I think any rational fan would much rather Jaylen Brown.

Chris Paul and all those swaps probably couldve got them 2-3 decent role players. Instead they blew it on Beal and now have zero avenues to improve.

They should blow it up and eat the multiple mistakes. They'll probably just run it back tho

The era ended with the Beal trade. They just didn't know it yet.

pontius wrote:Move KD and Booker while they can. Promote Beal to tank commander.

They dont have control of their draft until 2031? As it stands right now. It’s a big mess in terms of being a contender which the future was mortgaged for.

It will be two more years trying to win, knowing team is not good enough, maybe a coaching change again. It will be very difficult to make any impact player moves.

Suns really blew it with Ayton and not taking Halliburton. It’s hard to recover from mistakes that bad. I don’t know if they had any good draft picks after Booker.

They've committed to this roster for 2 more years.

HotelVitale wrote:

Archx wrote:Suns shot themselves in the foot when they traded basically entire core for Beal and KD and also in the process lost important bench players. Cam and Bridges were perfect for them and the situation with Ayton was unfortunate but probably salvagable if both parties just sat down. Instead new owner tried to play NBA 2k GM mode in real life....

Do they even have any draft picks for the next 5 years? Or only bad contracts?

LAvision wrote:They made their bed..... Dont they have no 1st round picks till 2030? And how much could KD and Booker really get in return? They are in such a bad situation.

They just owe BKN picks every other year, plus swaps to BKN/WAS that aren't likely to matter soon.

They're not totally out of options but they're pretty stuck. Their basic KD-Booker-Beal-Nurkic core puts them right at the tax on its own. They probably gotta shuffle around some pieces--maybe this year's pick for a cheaper decent vet on draft night--and hope for better chemistry running it back.

Pretty sure they can trade their 24 1st and their ‘31 1st (they only owe a swap in ‘30) immediately after the draft. Are they dumb enough to keep mortgaging their future? Probably. Ishbia is one of the worst cases of “new owner syndrome” I’ve ever seen.

Archx wrote:

sunsbg wrote:

Archx wrote:Suns shot themselves in the foot when they traded basically entire core for Beal and KD and also in the process lost important bench players. Cam and Bridges were perfect for them and the situation with Ayton was unfortunate but probably salvagable if both parties just sat down. Instead new owner tried to play NBA 2k GM mode in real life....

Do they even have any draft picks for the next 5 years? Or only bad contracts?

The league doesn't allow to completely trade all your picks fortunately. If your Mavs are better than the teams Suns owe pick swaps than they are in pretty much same situation draft-wise. Both teams will hope to hit on few late 1st round selections until 2030.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/future_drafts/team

Suns will get back a pick or two for KD in next year or so.

Yeah you're right but i was also thinking more from a GM perspective. It's hard to unload bad contracts or do any decent moves without being able to include picks. Obviously KD still has some draw left so Suns could get something out of that but it's not looking that good right now.

Just weird, one or two seasons ago Suns looked insanely scary to me, now they're just meh.....

Suns were not scaring anyone after CP3 broke down. Many thought Suns are scary after Beal trade and we see how that ended. As for bad contracts - Ayton is seen as bad contract, Cam Johnson is seen as bad contract. Only Mikal is a good contract, until someone overpays for him as 1/2 option, and Suns decided it's worth sending him out for KD. They overpaid with all the draft picks. Yet their draft situation looks similar or even better than Mavs'. Things are dynamic. Kyrie for example is not getting younger either. Mavs have better young talent though.

mademan wrote:Chris Paul and all those swaps probably couldve got them 2-3 decent role players. Instead they blew it on Beal and now have zero avenues to improve.

They should blow it up and eat the multiple mistakes. They'll probably just run it back tho

You’d think having seen multiple teams make the same mistake before the Suns would have learned something. If you’re going to bring in a 3rd star he better not be a score first guy. The 3rd option always get marginalized as far as scoring goes and then for them to be worth anywhere near their contract they need to have supplementary skills they can fall back on. The “good” example of this is Chris Bosh on MIA who became a very good defender and as such earned the majority of his contract. Beal is the “bad” example: not a good enough playmaker for others nor can he take the tough defensive assignments. So then you’re left paying $50m to an 18ppg scorer.

Are we sure that Beal still has a no trade clause? Just wondering if it goes away once traded

What Suns' era are you talking about?

ConSarnit wrote:

mademan wrote:Chris Paul and all those swaps probably couldve got them 2-3 decent role players. Instead they blew it on Beal and now have zero avenues to improve.

They should blow it up and eat the multiple mistakes. They'll probably just run it back tho

You’d think having seen multiple teams make the same mistake before the Suns would have learned something. If you’re going to bring in a 3rd star he better not be a score first guy. The 3rd option always get marginalized as far as scoring goes and then for them to be worth anywhere near their contract they need to have supplementary skills they can fall back on. The “good” example of this is Chris Bosh on MIA who became a very good defender and as such earned the majority of his contract. Beal is the “bad” example: not a good enough playmaker for others nor can he take the tough defensive assignments. So then you’re left paying $50m to an 18ppg scorer.

Yeah, Bosh and Wade were really awkward fits, but their tools and BBIQ were so elite that it was easy for them to become high level defenders to complement LeBron.

... Beal at 31 years old coming off 10k injuries did not have much defensive or role player upside.

jazzfan1971 wrote:Are we sure that Beal still has a no trade clause? Just wondering if it goes away once traded

There were rumors he'd waive it if traded to Suns, but it's still there. If there was no such clause it'd been a great trade. Now the team is stuck with injury prone 18ppg player on 50M+ contract.

ConSarnit wrote:

HotelVitale wrote:

Archx wrote:Suns shot themselves in the foot when they traded basically entire core for Beal and KD and also in the process lost important bench players. Cam and Bridges were perfect for them and the situation with Ayton was unfortunate but probably salvagable if both parties just sat down. Instead new owner tried to play NBA 2k GM mode in real life....

Do they even have any draft picks for the next 5 years? Or only bad contracts?

LAvision wrote:They made their bed..... Dont they have no 1st round picks till 2030? And how much could KD and Booker really get in return? They are in such a bad situation.

They just owe BKN picks every other year, plus swaps to BKN/WAS that aren't likely to matter soon.

They're not totally out of options but they're pretty stuck. Their basic KD-Booker-Beal-Nurkic core puts them right at the tax on its own. They probably gotta shuffle around some pieces--maybe this year's pick for a cheaper decent vet on draft night--and hope for better chemistry running it back.

Pretty sure they can trade their 24 1st and their ‘31 1st (they only owe a swap in ‘30) immediately after the draft. Are they dumb enough to keep mortgaging their future? Probably. Ishbia is one of the worst cases of “new owner syndrome” I’ve ever seen.

That's right, but I don't think it's a dumb move now to trade a like #23 pick for a good 4th starter on a decent contract. Seems a lot more likely to translate into wins than whoever they'd draft at that spot.

They're just kinda screwed in general, team's not quite good enough to compete now but also hard to tear down for lots of reasons. The biggest one being that no one in the org or ownership can do that after their first year with the core, which in turn means that they'll keep KD and Beal around as their value fades away (not that Beal has any anyhow).

ConSarnit wrote:

mademan wrote:Chris Paul and all those swaps probably couldve got them 2-3 decent role players. Instead they blew it on Beal and now have zero avenues to improve.

They should blow it up and eat the multiple mistakes. They'll probably just run it back tho

You’d think having seen multiple teams make the same mistake before the Suns would have learned something. If you’re going to bring in a 3rd star he better not be a score first guy. The 3rd option always get marginalized as far as scoring goes and then for them to be worth anywhere near their contract they need to have supplementary skills they can fall back on. The “good” example of this is Chris Bosh on MIA who became a very good defender and as such earned the majority of his contract. Beal is the “bad” example: not a good enough playmaker for others nor can he take the tough defensive assignments. So then you’re left paying $50m to an 18ppg scorer.

What do you guys think CP and a couple swaps (most of which likely weren't swapping) could've got them? Not defending the trade by any means but I'm not sure there were that many options for that type of package. Though the later swaps (like the 2030 one) have some value and were probably worth more than package of 2nd rounders that some vets got at the deadline this year.

They also took a gamble on Beal coming back healthy and in good form, hasn't happened that well but I always hate pissing on teams for taking swings that don't work out. (Unless you're doing the same when it does work out.) Just my taste though.

HotelVitale wrote:

ConSarnit wrote:

mademan wrote:Chris Paul and all those swaps probably couldve got them 2-3 decent role players. Instead they blew it on Beal and now have zero avenues to improve.

They should blow it up and eat the multiple mistakes. They'll probably just run it back tho

You’d think having seen multiple teams make the same mistake before the Suns would have learned something. If you’re going to bring in a 3rd star he better not be a score first guy. The 3rd option always get marginalized as far as scoring goes and then for them to be worth anywhere near their contract they need to have supplementary skills they can fall back on. The “good” example of this is Chris Bosh on MIA who became a very good defender and as such earned the majority of his contract. Beal is the “bad” example: not a good enough playmaker for others nor can he take the tough defensive assignments. So then you’re left paying $50m to an 18ppg scorer.

What do you guys think CP and a couple swaps (most of which likely weren't swapping) could've got them? Not defending the trade by any means but I'm not sure there were that many options for that type of package. Though the later swaps (like the 2030 one) have some value and were probably worth more than package of 2nd rounders that some vets got at the deadline this year.

They also took a gamble on Beal coming back healthy and in good form, hasn't happened that well but I always hate pissing on teams for taking swings that don't work out. (Unless you're doing the same when it does work out.) Just my taste though.

Seeing what Dallas is doing with Gafford/PJ, i think Paul and those high variance swaps couldve got them. It wasnt plainly clear that these guys were undervalued on their current teams and could provide real value as supporting pieces to offensive stars, but thats what FO's get paid for, no?

Go back 6 months and im certain Hornets and Wiz fan would give up these middling role players (Washington was considered overpaid) for the chance at gold 3-4 years from now. Beal, otoh, clearly had no place on a team with KD and Booker.

mademan wrote:

HotelVitale wrote:

ConSarnit wrote:
You’d think having seen multiple teams make the same mistake before the Suns would have learned something. If you’re going to bring in a 3rd star he better not be a score first guy. The 3rd option always get marginalized as far as scoring goes and then for them to be worth anywhere near their contract they need to have supplementary skills they can fall back on. The “good” example of this is Chris Bosh on MIA who became a very good defender and as such earned the majority of his contract. Beal is the “bad” example: not a good enough playmaker for others nor can he take the tough defensive assignments. So then you’re left paying $50m to an 18ppg scorer.

What do you guys think CP and a couple swaps (most of which likely weren't swapping) could've got them? Not defending the trade by any means but I'm not sure there were that many options for that type of package. Though the later swaps (like the 2030 one) have some value and were probably worth more than package of 2nd rounders that some vets got at the deadline this year.

They also took a gamble on Beal coming back healthy and in good form, hasn't happened that well but I always hate pissing on teams for taking swings that don't work out. (Unless you're doing the same when it does work out.) Just my taste though.

Seeing what Dallas is doing with Gafford/PJ, i think Paul and those high variance swaps couldve got them. It wasnt plainly clear that these guys were undervalued on their current teams and could provide real value as supporting pieces to offensive stars, but thats what FO's get paid for, no?

Go back 6 months and im certain Hornets and Wiz fan would give up these middling role players (Washington was considered overpaid) for the chance at gold 3-4 years from now. Beal, otoh, clearly had no place on a team with KD and Booker.

I don't think Bradley Beal has any place on a team with championship aspirations. That trade made no sense. He doesn't do anything from a scoring standpoint Kevin Durant can't already do better.

Fire the coach, that will buy the GM a year.
Fire the GM, this is all on him.
Fire the next GM, he couldn't fix an unfixable situation.