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I just don't see it. They are a very talented, well coached and well rounded team. Yes, Murray and KCP have struggled some but we can't ignore Michael Porter Jr has picked up the slack and has been playing like an All-Star averaging 22 and 10 on good efficiency and Gordon has been more than solid. They have missed having Bruce Brown Jr as added depth but their starting 5 is still the best imo (yes even better than Boston's).

Up-And-Coming wrote:but their starting 5 is still the best imo (yes even better than Boston's).

Between the two starting 5s, the 2nd-6th ranked players are all on Boston.

They’ve looked weak all season and you kind of wonder if they’re ever going to flip the switch

TheShow2021 wrote:

Up-And-Coming wrote:but their starting 5 is still the best imo (yes even better than Boston's).

Between the two starting 5s, the 2nd-6th ranked players are all on Boston.

I'd take Jamal Murray over Jaylen Brown or Porzingis in the playoffs. Yes, Jamal isn't shooting the ball well so far and some of that is him just missing his shots but also some of that is the Laker's game plan and helping on him but the Nuggets/Jokic are such a great ball movement team they almost always find the open man which has been MPJ more often than not this series. Murray also has a more proven resume than both of them.

Next, MPJ has outplayed Porzingis these playoffs but if you want to give the edge to Porzingis just overall I get it.

Then it comes down to the role players: Derrick White and Jrue Holiday vs KCP and Aaron Gordon which I would definitely give to the Celtics but all of them play well in their roles.

It isn't really a one-vs-one battle down the line either but I try to analyze them as a whole unit vs the other whole unit and the synergy/strengths/weaknesses they have combined and I simply favor the Nuggets.

I don’t want to hear people blame the guards. It was terrible through out. Everyone was missing backend rotations. Not getting back on defense. Letting players blow by while Nuggets players just watch. Getting out rebounded terrible. Jamal is a great number two in the playoffs. Kcp is one of best if not the best 2 guards out there. The back court is not why we lost. It was effort and laziness. Unacceptable turnovers giving up rebounds and transition opportunities. Just terrible.

Up-And-Coming wrote:I just don't see it. They are a very talented, well coached and well rounded team. Yes, Murray and KCP have struggled some but we can't ignore Michael Porter Jr has picked up the slack and has been playing like an All-Star averaging 22 and 10 on good efficiency and Gordon has been more than solid. They have missed having Bruce Brown Jr as added depth but their starting 5 is still the best imo (yes even better than Boston's).

Where does Denver's 2 through 5 rank among teams?

Murray looks pedestrian but we’ll see as the PO continue

I'm pulling for Denver but they're probably the 3rd best team, at best. Their offseason was pathetic.

This is why the Celtics have a great shot at beating them, especially with HCA.(If they can get out of the East).

The Nuggets have the best player in the series, but the Celtics have arguably 5 of the best 8 players on the floor- depending what value you put on Holiday's defense vs Porter's offense, and Derrick White's defense/scoring vs Aaron Gordon's inside work/defense. The Celtics IMO also have a much better bench that can complement their stars with their shooting/playmaking/defense.
The Celtics are just really strong at every position, offensively and defensively.

robbie84 wrote:This is why the Celtics have a great shot at beating them, especially with HCA.(If they can get out of the East).

The Nuggets have the best player in the series, but the Celtics have arguably 5 of the best 7 players on the floor- depending what value you put on Holiday's defense vs Porter's offense, and Derrick White's defense/scoring vs Aaron Gordon's inside work/defense. The Celtics IMO also have a much better bench that can complement their stars with their shooting/playmaking/defense.

Who's guarding Jokic? I rly hope you don't say Porz
Who's getting rebounds vs Jokic/Gordon front court?

Porter JR and Brown are equal in my opinion
Murray/KCP > Jrue/ White

SweaterBae wrote:I'm pulling for Denver but they're probably the 3rd best team, at best. Their offseason was pathetic.

This, so much.
Nuggets bench is hilariously bad, their backup center is mf Deandre Jordan,

Mir wrote:

SweaterBae wrote:I'm pulling for Denver but they're probably the 3rd best team, at best. Their offseason was pathetic.

This, so much.
Nuggets bench is hilariously bad, their backup center is mf Deandre Jordan,

DeAndre is better than your favorite backup center

The Ant-Man would feast on some nuggets this year. BBQ Chicken Alert!

Cubbies2120 wrote:

HotRocks34 wrote:KCP was better in Game 4 against LA but they got nothing from Braun or Jackson and Murray took 23 shots to get 22 points and had a 5/4 assist to turnover ratio.

This team is not as good as last year's team, at least not so far in the postseason.

They are missing Brown badly and Murray has to pick it up.

Murray isn't an All Star because trying hard for 1/4 quarters isn't enough.

This was clear to anyone who doesn't have an agenda of trying to prop up Jokic's teammates in order to deflate Jokic's greatness.

Last year was a title won in fashion similar to the 03 Spurs, 11 Mavs, and 95 Rockets. It was a one man show who shouldered the burden of overcoming legend after legend.

What he can't do is win with teammates that play like absolute bums. None of them are great players, but they're at least average at their position. When they play way below average (i.e. Murray) we get results like tonight's game where a 33/14/14 effort is wasted due to boneheaded plays by the supposed "second star".

Let`s not become revisionist here, Jamal Murray is a banged up player that for some reason played a lot of games with small injuries that added up this season, while having some games where he had very high usage as well.

If you look at Jamals injury history, and then this season, look at him moving earlier in his career, both in terms of his jumping, sprinting, change of directions +++ and compare it to now it is day and night in terms of how limited an athlete he is right now. He had one game this season where I was shocked at his burst of speed, and by the next game (which he shouldnt have played because his body doesnt handle the frequency of games) he was looking slow as heck again.

We all know his injury history from previous seasons, now lets add up that they had a long run last season + he has added more fat and muscle for some reason for his joints and connective tissue to carry even more + slow him down and limit his jump height - and lets look at his injury history this season -

quad, hamstring, ankle 1 2 3 4 5, tibia, shin, knee, tibias ?, tibia, ankle, ankle, knee, knee, knee.... in a season where he only played 59 games... like, no one is going to be athletic in a postseason where all of these problems add up, and they mentioned in march he had been diagnosed with shin splints, which does not resolve fast, so he probably still has that + knee problems and god knows what imbalances in other tissues this has caused from compensation and bad/changed/overloaded movement patterns blabla.

TLDR - Jamal Murray refused to rehab his injuries and gradually build himself up for the postseason and is now paying the price. He kept forcing himself back for ESPN games to show off and then reinjure something instead of taking it step by step and having a fresh, athletic body in the postseason and I think its going to cost the Nuggets another ring unless Jokic becomes Thanos.

LaLover11 wrote:

Mir wrote:

SweaterBae wrote:I'm pulling for Denver but they're probably the 3rd best team, at best. Their offseason was pathetic.

This, so much.
Nuggets bench is hilariously bad, their backup center is mf Deandre Jordan,

DeAndre is better than your favorite backup center

I've had DeAndre Jordan on my favorite team before and I currently have Dereck Lively as my backup center, so I can confidently say that is an absolutely laughable assumption if you're talking about my favorite team.

But Murray finding playoff mode again like he has in previous seasons is more important to Denver

HotRocks34 wrote:

JDR720 wrote:The Nuggets bench in general is bad. Braun is their best 2-way player, and he's probably average at best.

This season, it probably won't cost them as long as Murray shows up against Minnesota/Boston. But it definitely could and likely will if he doesn't get going.

I like Watson and Braun but they aren't skilled in terms of dribbling or passing. They're tall defenders and athletes.

The team needs more ballhandlers, playmakers and drivers. Brown was all of those things, and he had swag and he could defend.

They have work to do this offseason, repeat or not.

I'm 100% agree.
A guy like BB, Brogdon or similar.

LaLover11 wrote:

robbie84 wrote:This is why the Celtics have a great shot at beating them, especially with HCA.(If they can get out of the East).

The Nuggets have the best player in the series, but the Celtics have arguably 5 of the best 7 players on the floor- depending what value you put on Holiday's defense vs Porter's offense, and Derrick White's defense/scoring vs Aaron Gordon's inside work/defense. The Celtics IMO also have a much better bench that can complement their stars with their shooting/playmaking/defense.

Who's guarding Jokic? I rly hope you don't say Porz
Who's getting rebounds vs Jokic/Gordon front court?

Porter JR and Brown are equal in my opinion
Murray/KCP > Jrue/ White

Jokic is Jokic, but he'll have to come out and guard all 5 guys on the perimeter. The Celtics have 5 guys who can drive and shoot.
And Murray and KCP (31 ppg combined) vs Jrue and White (27.5 ppg combined) is arguably a wash when you consider Jrue and White are easily the best defensive back court in the NBA.
And no, Brown and Porter are not equal. Again, defense is just as important here, and Brown is simply a better player overall. It's more like Brown and Murray are equal, and Derrick White/Porter are equal. Murray has a better history of coming up big in the playoffs but Brown is the Multiple All Star.
Furthermore Murray has been a shell of what he was last season due to his injury issues. He's a great player, but he's not definitely not 100% fit and his inconsistency shows that this year.

MrGoat wrote:

LaLover11 wrote:

Mir wrote:
This, so much.
Nuggets bench is hilariously bad, their backup center is mf Deandre Jordan,

DeAndre is better than your favorite backup center

I've had DeAndre Jordan on my favorite team before and I currently have Dereck Lively as my backup center, so I can confidently say that is an absolutely laughable assumption if you're talking about my favorite team.

But Murray finding playoff mode again like he has in previous seasons is more important to Denver

Does it matter? They have Jokic. Who about 5 threads this week have claimed is better than prime Lebron/Shaq/MJ. Their backup center is irrelevant. It's time for him to show it. I don't care what his numbers are, he's been outplayed by AD in this series. Many of his assists seem to come off standstill/1 dribble handoffs at the top of the key. He will face harder teams in the next 3 rounds than any team Denver played last year, when/if they beat LA. With comparisons and claims like that, it's on him to figure it out! I haven't seen a guy who looks like the best player I've ever seen to this point.

TheShow2021 wrote:

Up-And-Coming wrote:but their starting 5 is still the best imo (yes even better than Boston's).

Between the two starting 5s, the 2nd-6th ranked players are all on Boston.

The gap between Jokic and Tatum is huge

hardenASG13 wrote:

MrGoat wrote:

LaLover11 wrote:
DeAndre is better than your favorite backup center

I've had DeAndre Jordan on my favorite team before and I currently have Dereck Lively as my backup center, so I can confidently say that is an absolutely laughable assumption if you're talking about my favorite team.

But Murray finding playoff mode again like he has in previous seasons is more important to Denver

Does it matter? They have Jokic. Who about 5 threads this week have claimed is better than prime Lebron/Shaq/MJ. Their backup center is irrelevant. It's time for him to show it. I don't care what his numbers are, he's been outplayed by AD in this series. Many of his assists seem to come off standstill/1 dribble handoffs at the top of the key. He will face harder teams in the next 3 rounds than any team Denver played last year, when/if they beat LA. With comparisons and claims like that, it's on him to figure it out! I haven't seen a guy who looks like the best player I've ever seen to this point.

He did last year. You remember when you said he and Nuggets couldn’t. Btw how does it feel cheering for a player that always let you down in the playoffs? It seems like you are jealous of the attention Jokic has received the last couple of years. It is interesting to say the least.