Would Vin Baker dominate today?

Post #21 » by **CBS7** » Thu May 2, 2024 12:16 pm

bledredwine wrote:Thanks! I appreciate the attention.

Yep. He'd likely be an all star today, with all of the open space and his athleticism/talent.

You know he was a 4 time allstar in the 90s right?

FreeBird23 · Post #22 » by **FreeBird23** » Thu May 2, 2024 12:46 pm

Dominate ? No

But he is better than a lot of GLeague players who are sitting on NBA benches

nomansland · Post #23 » by **nomansland** » Thu May 2, 2024 12:46 pm

No way he'd be an all-star now. Maybe an injury reserve in the East at best.

dhsilv2 · Post #24 » by **dhsilv2** » Thu May 2, 2024 12:54 pm

He'd be a starter who scored well and did absolutely nothing else. He'd be far worse today where defenders are expected to be able to switch and offensive players are expected to have higher level decision making. Just a dumb idea from a poster who constantly in the past has been shot down anytime anyone bothers to post any actual game film on any of these guys.

EmpireFalls · Post #25 » by **EmpireFalls** » Thu May 2, 2024 1:01 pm

Hopefully he could get help for his addiction. He had the raw talent to be something, though All-Star is a bit much. I could see him being a good contributor off the bench for a contender, or a good stats bad team guy. He was kind of like an actualized version of Anthony Bennett.

Post #26 » by **Capn'O** » Thu May 2, 2024 9:12 pm

As others have mentioned, his downfall was more due to not taking care of his body than his abilities. He might be a guy who we don't really know what he would have been.

In any event, if he would have been better today it's mostly due to better awareness and support around mental health and substance abuse.

BooomBaby · Post #27 » by **BooomBaby** » Thu May 2, 2024 10:15 pm

Dominate today?...

When did the guy ever dominate?...

I don't care how fat and drunk he was, he was nothing but a decent/good player.

LLJ · Post #28 » by **LLJ** » Thu May 2, 2024 10:22 pm

He would put up numbers and be a fringe all star, just like he was back then.

picko · Post #29 » by **picko** » Fri May 3, 2024 12:11 am

There's no reason to believe he'd be more 'dominant' today than he was during his own era. Given the standard of competition is far higher, there is a fair chance that he'd be less effective or certainly be playing fewer minutes. That might be mitigated to some extent if he took care of himself better but presumably he'd still have somewhat destructive tendencies that would limit his career even today.

He peaked as a solid guy for a couple of years - making an All-NBA 2nd team is a weak year - but he was never especially dominant in his era. If you take his advanced stats (PER, WS, BPM) and compare them to players with similar levels today you are left with a number of very solid players but certainly no superstars. Guys like Ayton, Miles Turner, Valančiūnas.

ANTETOKOUNBROS · Post #30 » by **ANTETOKOUNBROS** » Fri May 3, 2024 12:21 am

If he was sober, he would be like a less defensive Evan Mobley with an elite midpost game. Lengthy, an automatic 20/10 with decent defense.

Post #31 » by **og15** » Fri May 3, 2024 12:25 am

Are we using the word dominate VERY loosely here? What does the person who posted this consider the minimum bar for dominating for a current player so we have a reference point.

JimmyFromNz · Post #32 » by **JimmyFromNz** » Fri May 3, 2024 12:41 am

Its great Vin has come through the other side of his overly publicized issues. We've had 25 years of the same Gin joke which is all a bit played out at this point.

Who knows about the word 'dominate' that's dependent on so many variables. But what we can say with certainty is that he had elements of his game that translate very well.

The face up shooting game that extended.
The versatility
Passing ability out of doubles.
Leaping ability combined with instinct on the boards.

Sure the back to the basket game wouldn't be there, but you'd make that argument for any player pre-mid 2000s.

It'd be dismissive (or a sign of not having watched Vin) to say at least early career Vin wouldn't have a good chance of being a borderline allstar.

B_Creamy · Post #33 » by **B_Creamy** » Fri May 3, 2024 12:47 am

ScrantonBulls wrote:I caught an interesting discussion in another thread. A couple guys were discussing whether Vin Baker would dominate today's era. I can't say I remember Vin having many dominating traits. Do you think he would be a dominant player today?

bledredwine wrote:
tsherkin wrote:

What? That's ridiculous. Sub-50% 2pt shooter, 64% FT shooter, bleh passer, bleh defender, net negative on O. He had one good season in 98 and otherwise largely sucked.

He'd be awful today.

Am I falling for you kidding here? Because this is so ridiculous it feels like it can't be serious.

No chance. He was too skilled, regardless. He was an athlete and he'd find a way to score, especially in this zero defense beat-one-man to get a layup era.

His sub 50% 2 point shooting was because he took many post-up/midrange shots. He was still .490 from the field. Come on now. Barely under .500.

Lebron is sub 40% beyond 3 feet. Didn't stop him from scoring 30 per game. Actually, he's been trash beyond 3 feet, and below average from 3. Athleticism matters.

That seemed like an interesting discussion to you? Seems more like he's trolling. Vin Baker?

Post #34 » by **HMFFL** » Fri May 3, 2024 1:09 am

What I always felt Vin Baker needed was a quality head coach and system throughout his twenties. In today's game he would average 20ppg more consistently but useless without a good coach and system to play in.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM Forums mobile app

dhsilv2 · Post #35 » by **dhsilv2** » Fri May 3, 2024 11:35 am

og15 wrote:Are we using the word dominate VERY loosely here? What does the person who posted this consider the minimum bar for dominating for a current player so we have a reference point.

The thing is...he was a good mid post guy as others have brought up. But was he good enough that a team would run their offense through that?

If yes then we can have that discussion. If no which is my strong gun response then there's no definition that would fit.

That's the central issue with mid tier/mid range based stars from the 90's translating to today. Of course he'd be an NBA player who could score. But he'd be a 3rd option in nearly any system today. Not because he couldn't take on a bigger role, but because we just have better options on all be the worse of teams.

gavran · Post #36 » by **gavran** » Fri May 3, 2024 11:46 am

He could have been what Carlos Boozer was.

B_Creamy · Post #37 » by **B_Creamy** » Fri May 3, 2024 11:47 am

dhsilv2 wrote:
og15 wrote:Are we using the word dominate VERY loosely here? What does the person who posted this consider the minimum bar for dominating for a current player so we have a reference point.

The thing is...he was a good mid post guy as others have brought up. But was he good enough that a team would run their offense through that?

If yes then we can have that discussion. If no which is my strong gun response then there's no definition that would fit.

That's the central issue with mid tier/mid range based stars from the 90's translating to today. Of course he'd be an NBA player who could score. But he'd be a 3rd option in nearly any system today. Not because he couldn't take on a bigger role, but because we just have better options on all be the worse of teams.

The thing is even if a player has a team run the offense through them, like say Markannen, and performs well in the role. Is that really dominating?

And I don't even think Baker would do that.

dhsilv2 · Post #38 » by **dhsilv2** » Fri May 3, 2024 11:53 am

B_Creamy wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
og15 wrote:Are we using the word dominate VERY loosely here? What does the person who posted this consider the minimum bar for dominating for a current player so we have a reference point.

The thing is...he was a good mid post guy as others have brought up. But was he good enough that a team would run their offense through that?

If yes then we can have that discussion. If no which is my strong gun response then there's no definition that would fit.

That's the central issue with mid tier/mid range based stars from the 90's translating to today. Of course he'd be an NBA player who could score. But he'd be a 3rd option in nearly any system today. Not because he couldn't take on a bigger role, but because we just have better options on all be the worse of teams.

The thing is even if a player has a team run the offense through them, like say Markannen, and performs well in the role. Is that really dominating?

And I don't even think Baker would do that.

I'd say no, but at least that would allow us to discuss it and we'd need context for the word. If you're in the Bosh/Love 3rd man type role...you don't get to dominate.

Slimjimzv · Post #39 » by **Slimjimzv** » Fri May 3, 2024 12:18 pm

lol no

Nazrmohamed · Post #40 » by **Nazrmohamed** » Fri May 3, 2024 12:54 pm

CBS7 wrote:
bledredwine wrote:Thanks! I appreciate the attention.

Yep. He'd likely be an all star today, with all of the open space and his athleticism/talent.

You know he was a 4 time allstar in the 90s right?

Well you know, there's this assumption that most Allstars from back then were bums so maybe that's why he felt the need to say it. But even from a 90s perspective Vin Baker even at 4 allstar games always felt like a lower tier star. Definitely talented but nothing special. I'm trying to think of a player today who seems to make it a few times but you have no real sense that he's gonna do much when it matters. Maybe like a Julius Randle? And I'm a Knicks fan who likes Randle but just saying the collective media and nba fans don't seem to appreciate him or see him as a real threat in the playoffs.

Personally I think he'd be the type of guy that today if you were building a super team he'd be your 3rd option. Probably be a stud on a team that misses the playoffs and the 2nd guy on a team that loses in the first or 2nd rd