Time to put some RESPECK on Kobe's name...(Going back to back ain't so easy is it?)

[GrandTheftRondo]

Ah yes we’ve now hit that point in time where we now pretend Kobe’s teams weren’t any good.

[Fadeaway_Jumper]

Kobe has too many haters on this board for people to give him serious credit

Your favorite player needed a superteam to go back to back. Duncan and his stacked spurs with the supposed greatest coach of all time couldn’t even do it. Kobe & Pau were definitely a problem

[JJ_PR]

He had a stacked team that no team could matchup with size wise. He lucked out with the Perkins injury in the '10 Finals. When he finally ran into a team that had size to matchup with his team's twin towers in the '11 Mavs he got swept out of the playoffs.

Those Lakers team strategy was Kobe shoots a bunch of bricks, but they have Gasol, Odom, Bynum to clean up his bricks with countless offensive rebounds. Eventually after shooting a bunch of bricks Kobe then gets hot and the Lakers win the game. Rinse and repeat from '08-'10.

Kobe's killer instinct was pretty much useless unless he had a dominate big in Shaq to cover up his bricks or a trio of all-star caliber bigs in Gasol, Bynum, Odom to clean up his bricks. I still remember Kobe shooting 8-24 in game 7 of the 2010 finals only to be bailed out by Gasol.

He probably did that on purpose though.

[ChipotleWest]

First line..."He had a stacked team."

Goodness gracious.

Whatever.

having 3 all-star caliber bigs in Gasol, Bynum, Odom in which 2 of them are 7ft while the other is a legit 6'10 is not stacked? On top of that the Lakers got Artest right at the end of his prime to help them win '10.

Bynum 2008 playoffs...didn't play.

Bynum 2009 playoffs...6.3 and 3.7 in 17 minutes per game.

Bynum 2010 playoffs...8.6 and 6.9 in 24 minutes. (Was actually a big contributor)

He made one all-star team after the Lakers were finished.

Odom never made an all-star team.

I wouldn't call them stacked teams but they weren't just some top heavy teams with scrubs either. In 07-08 4 players averaged double figures in the playoffs: Kobe, Pau, Odom and Ariza scored in double figures, 08-09 same players, 09-10 replace Ariza with Artest. In the last year of 3 peat they had 3 in double figures Kobe, Shaq, Fisher that's it.

[ChipotleWest]

Kobe has too many haters on this board for people to give him serious credit

Your favorite player needed a superteam to go back to back. Duncan and his stacked spurs with the supposed greatest coach of all time couldn’t even do it. Kobe & Pau were definitely a problem

I have no dog in this fight but you bring up an opponent's coach when Kobe had Phil Jackson for all of his rings really?

[Handlez]

Durant went back to back too. Does he get RESPECK?

I RESPECK him.

But obviously you know these are different circumstances lol.

I really don't. How are they different? They both won back to back titles. And both only did it once their teams got stacked and struggled before. They're different because Kobe forced his way to the Lakers on draft night, and KD signed with the Warriors?

Cool story.

[Handlez]

Not to totally get off subject but this is why kobe should be rated higher on all time list than shaq. Shaq never wins a three peat w/o kobe. Shaq won 1 riding off coattails off wade. Kobe won back to back titles w/ a pedestrian roster w/o him. And then you can add in the much longer prime for good measure. Shaq only had a higher peak than kobe.

Kobe is higher all time.

[ChipotleWest]

Phil Jackson has been the coach of all the repeats and threepeats going back to 1991 except the Warriors and Rockets. (both repeated, not threepeated)

[gottamakeit]

Kobe fans worship at the Kobe altar. He is a deity to you guys. And you're here protolyzing your religion. You can see how annoying it is.

Ironically your zealotry in pushing up Kobe's legacy, it might be taking the shine off it.

[Handlez]

Ah yes we’ve now hit that point in time where we now pretend Kobe’s teams weren’t any good.

We're not pretending anything.

Kobe had a solid supporting cast, but it was not great for a back to back to back finals team.

Good solid roster that exceeded their talent due to Kobe's DAWG mentality.

To put it into perspective, only Hakeem had less help for a back to back championship team.

[Handlez]

Kobe fans worship at the Kobe altar. He is a deity to you guys. And you're here protolyzing your religion. You can see how annoying it is.

Ironically your zealotry in pushing up Kobe's legacy, it might be taking the shine off it.

Well that's dramatic lol.

[Jedi32]

Kobe fans worship at the Kobe altar. He is a deity to you guys. And you're here protolyzing your religion. You can see how annoying it is.

Ironically your zealotry in pushing up Kobe's legacy, it might be taking the shine off it.

When folks have nothing to add, but want to get that post count up.

[Hornet Mania]

You can thank KG's injury for that back to back.

That hypothetical goes both ways though. You could thank Bynum/Ariza's injuries (the latter of which left Vlad Rad to defend Paul Pierce in the Finals) for that Boston team ever winning a championship at all.

There was a razor thin margin between the teams, I don't think either can truly claim clear superiority. The closest the teams ever got to equal footing LA won the series 4-3. (I know Perk was injured, but so was Kobe's hand)

[lakerz12]

Kobe is one of very few elite players who has 5 championships as the best or second best player on the team (Kobe, Duncan, MJ...)...

Maybe his relentless will to win had an effect on his teammates day in and day out...

or maybe it was just a coincidence.

[Stan]

Ah yes we’ve now hit that point in time where we now pretend Kobe’s teams weren’t any good.

We're not pretending anything.

Kobe had a solid supporting cast, but it was not great for a back to back to back finals team.

Good solid roster that exceeded their talent due to Kobe's DAWG mentality.

To put it into perspective, only Hakeem had less help for a back to back championship team.

There's really two questions that should be asked when making this kind of evaluation, who at that time in question, '09 & '10, would you say had a better supporting cast than Kobe? And who at the time had a better 2nd option than Gasol?

For the first question, you could argue Boston, but I honestly wouldn't say anybody else did. When you break it down among top 5 players, LeBron, Wade, Dirk etc, Kobe definitely had a better supporting cast than any of them. And Gasol was pretty clearly the best 2nd option at the time.

[Individual]

The revisionist history here is crazy. I vividly remember all of the "GaSOFT" and "Odumb" slander, and people saying that the Lakers team wasn't good enough to win with Kobe and Pau after the '08 finals

[footworkonpoint]

First line..."He had a stacked team."

Goodness gracious.

Whatever.

having 3 all-star caliber bigs in Gasol, Bynum, Odom in which 2 of them are 7ft while the other is a legit 6'10 is not stacked? On top of that the Lakers got Artest right at the end of his prime to help them win '10.

Bynum 2008 playoffs...didn't play.

Bynum 2009 playoffs...6.3 and 3.7 in 17 minutes per game.

Bynum 2010 playoffs...8.6 and 6.9 in 24 minutes. (Was actually a big contributor)

He made one all-star team after the Lakers were finished.

Odom never made an all-star team.

Right when posters gottta go with the three all-star capable big man stretch it's just shows what level of legit gas lighting or just lack of understanding you have to deal with just to have a truthful conversations where you can give legends there due and still be rationale around here

Sent from my SM-S918U using RealGM mobile app

[JimmyFromNz]

First line..."He had a stacked team."

Goodness gracious.

Whatever.

having 3 all-star caliber bigs in Gasol, Bynum, Odom in which 2 of them are 7ft while the other is a legit 6'10 is not stacked? On top of that the Lakers got Artest right at the end of his prime to help them win '10.

Bynum 2008 playoffs...didn't play.

Bynum 2009 playoffs...6.3 and 3.7 in 17 minutes per game.

Bynum 2010 playoffs...8.6 and 6.9 in 24 minutes. (Was actually a big contributor)

He made one all-star team after the Lakers were finished.

Odom never made an all-star team.

Interesting, because all we seem to hear is how lucky the Celtics were in 2008 that Bynum was injured?

I actually agree Kobe is slightly underrated in the present on this board, that is when looking at some of the comparisons and agendas by certain posters. But that said, no players legacy has benefitted more from their situation and rabid fanbase than Kobe.

[LakerLegend]

Keep in mind Kobe did it well past his physical prime and playing on one knee in 2010.

[One_and_Done]

After seeing the Nuggets struggle, that back to back looking mighty hard, eh?

Kobe went to back to back to back finals and won back to back titles with a good roster, but certainly not an otherworldly roster.

First finals team...

Kobe
Pau
Lamar
Sasha
Vladimir
Fisher

Those players played the most minutes and were the biggest contributors. How the hell do you beat that Boston team with THAT? Kobe's second option averaged 14.7.

Second finals team that beat Magic...

Kobe
Pau
Lamar
Arizona
Fisher

Those players played the most minutes and were the biggest contributors. Kobe's second option averaged 18.6.

Third finals team that won back to back titles...

Kobe
Pau
Lamar
Artest
Fisher
Bynum

Those players averaged the most minutes and were the biggest contributors. Kobe's second option averaged 18.6.

People will talk advanced stats or percentages or whatever, but Kobe was beyond that. The man was a stone cold killer and did anything he could to win. A lot of what he did won't show up in any stat. He did a great job of breaking down defenses with his elite post play that collapsed the defense, but wouldn't necessarily lead to any stat we can zero in on. He swung the ball out of countless double teams and eventually it'd lead to good shots that would also tire the defense as they were scrambling. And Kobe was an elite defender when it mattered. If Kobe knew he had a chance to win a title, he locked in defensively in the playoffs.

And of course, I'm not even talking about anything he did with Shaq.

Kobe most underrated of all time.

Once KG got hurt I'm 09, ending his prime, the Lakers had the best team in the league and were considered favourites both at the time and in hindsight.

You are focussed on ppg, not understanding that a) the pace was slower then, b) players don't only bring value by scoring, and c) there's only 1 ball. When you put a bunch of talented guys all on one team, some players have to sacrifice their stats, especially when playing with infamous ball hogging and shot jacker Kobe.

Pau was an an all-nba big, who had led his own team to three 50-ish win seasons in the brutal West at the same time that Kobe was struggling to lead his own team to the playoffs. The only reason the Grizzlies didn't do better was because the seeding system was broken at the time and they played in the toughest division.

Odom was an all-star calibre player, if he'd stayed on Miami he'd likely have 5 or more all-star appearances. Instead he went to a crowded LA roster and had to take a lesser role.

Artest was widely considered the best player on a contending Pacers team, or at worst the co-star. He was also a fearsome defensive player. He had to take a lesser role on the Lakers, but at 30 he was still in his prime. He was averaging 17-24 ppg for six seasons in a row before he came to LA, mostly on playoff teams or contenders, while being one of the best defenders in the league.

Bynum was seen as an up and coming all-star big, there was a reason he ended up getting a max contract. Dude was a good player.

Ariza was a top notch 3@D guy. Fisher was a solid point guard. They had other good role players too. Those were incredible teams relative to the league they were in. They could have likely won a title or two with Dominique Wilkins or Ray Allen in Kobe's place.