KD about to be on his 9th coach in past 10 years

[Saints14]

Eh, the only one I might "blame" KD on other than him changing teams is Atkinson. Seemed clear at the time that KD and Kyrie wanted their guy. The rest of them were mostly mediocre coaches saddled with huge expectations that couldn't get the job done (Brooks, Nash, Monty, Vogel)

[Showtime 80]

The LeBron/KD era nearing its end will be like an anvil off of the league. Terrible era that developed terrible personalities

Thank you!

I get tired of the narrative for LeBron that “he never had stable coaching in the NBA” that has been kept running for all these years.

Guess what, he had a stable coach and front office in Miami which has been in place for 16 years and counting and what happened?!? He bolted the moment he saw Wade and Bosh breaking down and Pat Riley wouldn’t let him and his Klutch posey highjack the organization from under him!

If he would’ve stayed in Miami I have no doubt in my mind that they would’ve been a consistent title threat in the weaker East for the past 10 years. They would’ve had some down years for sure but the stable combo of him, Riley, Spoelstra and the city of Miami itself would’ve made the Heat the number one destination for FA’s and LeBron would’ve ended up moving only once while building a real dynasty type culture ala MJ, Magic, Bird, Kobe and Duncan.

But noooooo, in the end it’s all about him and that ol’ “I’ve never had a stable hand at coach or front office” boo hoo chant is conveniently added to his large number of excuses why he doesn’t stack up to MJ in the greatest player debate.

[Lalouie]

at some point you look around and there's no one left to blame

Or you don’t lol

you are closer to the truth i think

[Marrrcuss]

at some point you look around and there's no one left to blame

Why is there blame needed? Because we are this new idiotic finger pointing society?

Anyone with half a brain and basketball intellect knew the suns were constructed horribly. As a laker fan, i wasnt worried because not having a point guard would make them a poor mans Celtic team in crunch time. They also had no depth whatsoever.

The lakers were never healthy and just dealt with what they had. Their big free agent signing, no matter how you feel he would help, was Vincent. He never got into the groove. Our best AND ONLY perimeter defender didnt play the whole playoffs.

Why does there need to be blame on either of the players? Hell, id say none on the coaches except for Ham putting lineups on the court in the clutch that had never played before. Thats just silly.

[theFireBlanket]

Giannis has had 6 coaches starting from the 14-15 season but I guess you're not counting Prunty's 3 games.

Westbrook has had a lot of coaches but he didn't kill any of them he just got traded around the league like a hot potato.

Booker managing to have 8 different coaches while staying on the same team is a big red flag for any team looking at trading for him.

Giannis didn't want Larry Drew or Jason Kidd fired. He claimed he had no role in firing Budenholzer.

Drew (rookie)
Kidd (J called him at firing & he was ready to tell Horst not to fire him if Kidd wanted.)
Bud (5 years, claimed no idea it was coming)
Griff
Rivers are the list of true HC.

Although Prunty (interim twice) & Sweeney ran Kidd's team on the court.

[Scalabrine]

yeah I mean it looks like a high number but more context is needed. KD had 3 new coaches not due to the guy getting fired but just due to changing teams.

He is the reason he changed teams though. He left twice in free agency and he demanded a trade the other time. That still speaks on him and his lack of happiness in any situation. Also, he did demand that Nash get fired, pretty much saying it was him or me.

There were also substantiated rumors and reports that came out saying that he didn't like Vogels offense and it's hard for me to believe that he had nothing to do with the firing. Afterall, he had been through 8 coaches now, he MUST know who is good and who is bad.

Honestly, KD leaving the Warriors just kind of proved the type of character he is. It was a perfect situation for him, with an organization that supported him and was willing to pay him and a culture that was based around winning. He left and it's been disaster after disaster ever since.

[tamaraw08]

I was listening to the latest Bill Simmons podcast and he was listing out stars who have had the most coaches in the past 10 years:

KD - 8 (about to be 9)
Kyrie Irving - 8
Devin Booker - 7 (about to be 8)
James Harden - 7
Russell Westbrook -7
Lebron 6 - (about to be at 7)
Giannis - 5
Butler - 5
Dame - 4
AD - 4
Kawhi - 4
Embiid - 3
Curry - 2
Tatum - 2
Jokic - 1

My take away from this is that when you look at the players with the most coaches, I think there is some correlation to those players being malcontents and not necessarily the best leaders. I think Booker is the surprise as stated in the Bill Simmons podcast because he wasn't a player who was asking to be traded to multiple teams but it also shows that he was not great enough (no fault of his own) to push a team to new heights earlier in his career until he started playing under Monty Williams, if my memory serves correct.

Wait, I thought Lebron was the ultimate Coach killer.

[bledredwine]

Why do we care? Because we dont like KD and Bron?

They have moved 3+ times and their teams are title or bust. Makes perfect sense

I'll say it. The players at the top of this list are the players who cause more drama on their squads.
And prime Lebron/Durant are no exception.
During their prime, they were the clear 1 and 2 in the league and Lebron is generational.
But I don't think that it's a good thing to have your top two players cycle through 7+ coaches and three or more teams.
It just hasn't been enjoyable watching the two best players in the league team hop and treat
players and coaches like they're disposable.

Say what you want about Kobe and Jordan in terms of how they treated teammates... they were respectful to
coaches and did their best to establish a culture with their leadership, as did Russell, Wilt and Kareem.
They primarily had winning games as their focus, not their legacy and championship chasing. You've got to
maintain respect of a coach to get the team to buy in. See Dwight.

I do have high hopes and look forward to the upcoming players being a better influence on the league- Wembanyama, Jokic, Luka, Giannis and potentially ANT are all encouraging.

I do think that there is a correlation here with the number of coaches and how compatible a player is with the league as a whole, that or the player on the list has a terrible play style for those around them (Westbrook comes to mind).

Don't get me wrong- prime KD or Lebron could have gone anywhere and made a team into a contender, but they
could have done a much better job getting their teams to buy in on both ends (especially defensive) and establishing a more competitive mindset.

[og15]

Part of it is being on different teams, so we have to add that reality. It's more critical if the player is asking for coaching changes though vs if the org/management are the ones using the coaches as their scapegoat to appease the fans.

Giannis has had 6 coaches starting from the 14-15 season but I guess you're not counting Prunty's 3 games.

Westbrook has had a lot of coaches but he didn't kill any of them he just got traded around the league like a hot potato.

Booker managing to have 8 different coaches while staying on the same team is a big red flag for any team looking at trading for him.

Is it though? Has there been anything about Booker not wanting a coach to stay or asking for a new coach?

I don't think I've even heard that's, so if his team has has the kind of management that just keeps shuffling things, is that his fault?

yes. it's the obvious question to ask,,,however if it has happened 9x then assumptions, right or wrong, tend to become reenforced. but certainly it can be stated that his presence planted the kernel.

now, if there's the one scenario that can build around him(let me revise - "assimilate him into the team"), are you going to go searching around the league to find it? we already know he split from the one situation that was good for his legacy.

at the very least we can say this...his presence brings expectations and so far all but one has failed. we also know that ego and love of talent overrides all common sense in sports. look at THE ONE situation that was good for him..........THE GROUNDWORK WAS ALREADY IN PLACE. in other words, the only destination that's good for kd is denver. milwaukee is off the table because they have already shown a propensity to break down.

kd has to go to a place that is breakdown proof. i'll take the least expected destination and say it's not denver, but the hornets. kd is not so bad that the hornets could get worse

I don't understand, you quoted the part with me talking about Booker, but you are talking about KD in your post.

[Ssj16]

For the record, I definitely think in some cases, ownership is to blame for the high coach turnover but as some posters have mentioned, both Lebron and KD were in stable front offices in both Miami and GS and they both chose to leave which speaks to more about players being more disgruntled in today's game than before, imo

[Doctor MJ]

yeah I mean it looks like a high number but more context is needed. KD had 3 new coaches not due to the guy getting fired but just due to changing teams.

Also this shouldn’t need to be said but coaches get fired for a lot of reasons and the star player wanting them gone could have absolutely nothing to do with it. Like I don’t believe Devin Booker has advocated for many of his coaches to get fired he’s just spent his entire career playing for an organization that was really incompetent for most of it.

Totally with you that we can't take the number at face value as meaningful, and a guy like Booker what you're definitely primarily talking about is organizational floundering rather than any kind of coach-killing thing from Booker.

However, changing teams because you're dissatisfied with a team that wants you and wants to pay you max money absolutely counts in the same category of player empowerment casualties.

So with Durant, while I don't think it's appropriate to talk about going from Brooks to Donovan as something about his empowerment, from then on out it is.

Putting it on a timeline:

2016 - Durant leaves OKC (and Donovan)
2019 - Durant leaves GS (and Kerr)
2020 - kills Atkinson, goes to Nash
2022 - kills Nash, goes to Vaughn
2023 - Durant leaves Brooklyn (and Vaughn)
2023 - allows Monty to be killed, goes to Vogel
2024 - kills Vogel, goes to Bud

Particularly amazing here is that from 2019 to 2014 I had to write 6 lines there. You might say that Durant's been in his coach-killing prime for the past half decade, which makes sense because often an athletic prime precedes blame-everyone-but-me-for-things-getting-worse prime.

[Chanel Bomber]

Teams always acquire KD with the expectation that he's a franchise-carrying talent when he's not.

So his teams (post-GS) inexorably fail to meet expectations.

Someone then has to pay the price, and it always starts with the coach.

I think this disconnect between unrealistic organizational expectations and reality are the primary cause of this coaching carousel, beyond his lack of leadership.

[Marrrcuss]

[quote="Chanel Bomber"]Teams always acquire KD with the expectation that he's a franchise-carrying talent [i]when he's not[/i].

So his teams (post-GS) inexorably fail to meet expectations.

Someone then has to pay the price, and it always starts with the coach.

I think this disconnect between unrealistic organizational expectations and reality are the primary cause of this coaching carousel, beyond his lack of leadership.[/quote]

No one is. No one can do it even remotely alone.

Looking at Phoenix's team, it just seem idiotic that he is getting ANY blame.

[Chanel Bomber]

[quote="Chanel Bomber"]Teams always acquire KD with the expectation that he's a franchise-carrying talent [i]when he's not[/i].

So his teams (post-GS) inexorably fail to meet expectations.

Someone then has to pay the price, and it always starts with the coach.

I think this disconnect between unrealistic organizational expectations and reality are the primary cause of this coaching carousel, beyond his lack of leadership.

No one is. No one can do it even remotely alone.

Looking at Phoenix's team, it just seem idiotic that he is getting ANY blame.[/quote]

You know what I meant.

Of course, nobody does it alone.

But KD is a finisher, not a player who elevates their team to the same extent as a LeBron, Curry or Jokic. There's a clear separation between that class of players and him. Most advanced impact metrics would corroborate this.

His inability to have an offense run through him and elevate his teammates is highlighted in Phoenix. It's been pretty much a constant in his career. Which explains why his deepest runs came with two future MVPs and of course after joining the 73-9 Warriors. It was apparent in the Brooklyn-Celtics series too, among others.

KD has had help throughout his career. He just doesn't elevate it.

[Marrrcuss]

You know what I meant.

Of course, nobody does it alone.

But KD is a finisher, not a player who elevates their team to the same extent as a LeBron, Curry or Jokic. There's a clear separation between that class of players and him. Most advanced impact metrics would corroborate this.

His inability to have an offense run through him and elevate his teammates is highlighted in Phoenix. It's been pretty much a constant in his career. Which explains why his deepest runs came with two future MVPs and of course after joining the 73-9 Warriors. It was apparent in the Brooklyn-Celtics series too, among others.

KD has had help throughout his career. He just doesn't elevate it.

How many times does curry have to even miss the play in until we realize this isnt true?

As far as KD, he just wasnt going to be able to do anything with this top heavy, thin squad.

[Chanel Bomber]

You know what I meant.

Of course, nobody does it alone.

But KD is a finisher, not a player who elevates their team to the same extent as a LeBron, Curry or Jokic. There's a clear separation between that class of players and him. Most advanced impact metrics would corroborate this.

His inability to have an offense run through him and elevate his teammates is highlighted in Phoenix. It's been pretty much a constant in his career. Which explains why his deepest runs came with two future MVPs and of course after joining the 73-9 Warriors. It was apparent in the Brooklyn-Celtics series too, among others.

KD has had help throughout his career. He just doesn't elevate it.

How many times does curry have to even miss the play in until we realize this isnt true?

As far as KD, he just wasnt going to be able to do anything with this top heavy, thin squad.

Curry's past his prime. As is KD, to an extent.

The difference is Curry in his prime was much more impactful than KD ever was.

KD never reached the levels of impact that has enabled players such as Curry, Bron or Jokic (or even peak Giannis) to properly lead teams far in the playoffs in spite of the rosters' weaknesses, which they helped hide.

KD's a great player and I don't hold the Suns' failure against him, specifically because I don't view him as that kind of player. But his inability to elevate his teams beyond his own individual output partly explains his teams' repeated failures sans Steph.

The Suns went all in on KD because they assumed they were getting a transformational talent who could carry a top-heavy roster. They were wrong.

[Marrrcuss]

You know what I meant.

Of course, nobody does it alone.

But KD is a finisher, not a player who elevates their team to the same extent as a LeBron, Curry or Jokic. There's a clear separation between that class of players and him. Most advanced impact metrics would corroborate this.

His inability to have an offense run through him and elevate his teammates is highlighted in Phoenix. It's been pretty much a constant in his career. Which explains why his deepest runs came with two future MVPs and of course after joining the 73-9 Warriors. It was apparent in the Brooklyn-Celtics series too, among others.

KD has had help throughout his career. He just doesn't elevate it.

How many times does curry have to even miss the play in until we realize this isnt true?

As far as KD, he just wasnt going to be able to do anything with this top heavy, thin squad.

Curry's past his prime. As is KD, to an extent.

The difference is Curry in his prime was much more impactful than KD ever was.

KD never reached the levels of impact that has enabled players such as Curry, Bron or Jokic (or even peak Giannis) to properly lead teams far in the playoffs in spite of the rosters' weaknesses, which they helped hide.

KD's a great player and I don't hold the Suns' failure against him, specifically because I don't view him as that kind of player. But his inability to elevate his teams beyond his own individual output partly explains his teams' repeated failures sans Steph.

The Suns went all in on KD because they assumed they were getting a transformational talent who could carry a top-heavy roster. They were wrong.

No matter how yall spin it after the fact, i watched KD lead GSW to the title twice. I saw him hit the big shots and not get hidden on defense.

[Chanel Bomber]

How many times does curry have to even miss the play in until we realize this isnt true?

As far as KD, he just wasnt going to be able to do anything with this top heavy, thin squad.

Curry's past his prime. As is KD, to an extent.

The difference is Curry in his prime was much more impactful than KD ever was.

KD never reached the levels of impact that has enabled players such as Curry, Bron or Jokic (or even peak Giannis) to properly lead teams far in the playoffs in spite of the rosters' weaknesses, which they helped hide.

KD's a great player and I don't hold the Suns' failure against him, specifically because I don't view him as that kind of player. But his inability to elevate his teams beyond his own individual output partly explains his teams' repeated failures sans Steph.

The Suns went all in on KD because they assumed they were getting a transformational talent who could carry a top-heavy roster. They were wrong.

No matter how yall spin it after the fact, i watched KD lead GSW to the title twice. I saw him hit the big shots and not get hidden on defense.

KD balled out in the Finals, against single coverage - the type of defense no other franchise player of his stature has had the luxury of facing in the Finals. Every credible impact metric shows that Steph was the most impactful player on those Warriors teams overall.

And we know who won before and after, and who didn't. But I digress.

The point was the Suns traded everything for KD knowing that they would have a top-heavy roster because they assumed KD was the kind of talent who could carry it to contention. They were wrong. He doesn't enhance anyone around him, so all the roster flaws are exposed.

He's a second-tier superstar by historical standards and always has been. I don't mean that as a diss, just as basic reality.

[scrabbarista]

I was listening to the latest Bill Simmons podcast and he was listing out stars who have had the most coaches in the past 10 years:

KD - 8 (about to be 9)
Kyrie Irving - 8
Devin Booker - 7 (about to be 8)
James Harden - 7
Russell Westbrook -7
Lebron 6 - (about to be at 7)
Giannis - 5
Butler - 5
Dame - 4
AD - 4
Kawhi - 4
Embiid - 3
Tatum - 3
Curry - 2
Jokic - 1

My take away from this is that when you look at the players with the most coaches, I think there is some correlation to those players being malcontents and not necessarily the best leaders. I think Booker is the surprise as stated in the Bill Simmons podcast because he wasn't a player who was asking to be traded to multiple teams but it also shows that he was not great enough (no fault of his own) to push a team to new heights earlier in his career until he started playing under Monty Williams, if my memory serves correct.

100%.

[HMFFL]

I have majority of the players listed as lead by example guys and not actual leaders.

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