Lebron and 1999/2000 Shaq? How dominant would they be

[Cevap]

Lebron with 99-00 Shaq would win the championship, just like Kobe with 99-00 shaq did.

Perhaps the more relevant question would be whether or not Lebron would have created petty differences that required splitting the two up so they couldnt win more championships?

an even better question would be could lebron with a 2004 shaq defeat the pistons in the finals?

[Seattlesun]

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Kobe didn't create the differences all on his own, non-Laker fan. Shaq started ostracizing him from the rest of the vets from Kobe's rookie season. Slapped him during practice once, derided him at team table meetings. Research before making claims like that.

As to the claim that Player B would've won a title w/ Shaq in the same circumstances (2000-2002): I've been reading and posting at this site since 2002. I've seen that same argument made about Paul Pierce, TMac, VC (haha), and Wade. Not saying Bron necessarily wouldn't have, but it's interesting to note how the purveyors of "Player B" arguments seem to quiet down after their boy has been exposed as inferior to Kobe.

I cant think of any bigger waste of my time than to "research" why Kobe and Shaq couldnt get along. They couldn't coexist, Kobe is a punk, assumptions will be drawn.

You make a good point about those other guys being compared to Kobe though. But Lebron has proven he is head and shoulders above all of them so this argument is much more relevant with him.

[Milan24]

They couldn't coexist

They coexisted for 8 seasons and 3 championships.

Kobe is a punk

So is Shaq.

[Seattlesun]

^^^ touche

[GIVE_WADE_THE_MAX]

3 points...

1. It might be the exception rather than the rule.

2. Wade had a perimeter-oriented power forward in Haslem.

3. Shaq played 34 minutes per game (not the 40 he would have played had it been 1999-2000).

I'm not saying LeBron would go from scoring a majority of his points from the inside to coming up empty. I'm just saying his interior presence would be reduced unless he at least had a perimeter oriented power forward (ala Haslem).

It's very rare that team has 2 dominant low post options on the floor at the same time. Usually its one big down low and the other out or around the high post.

When you have a dominant Shaq as a teammate it really opens up the floor. One thing you are certain of is that it is very unlikely the opposing Center will leave Shaq on any of your drives to the rim. Remember that Shaq, during his prime, was routinely doubled team and oppossing coaches would auto foul Shaq anywhere close to the basket.

I cant stress how important that is to a wing player. Look at the success TP enjoys driving the lanes knowing that whoever is guarding Duncan likely wont help out.

Having a dominant big man in the post guarantess two things.

1) Constant double teams opening shots for his teamates
2) One less opposing defender to be concerned about for the star wing player.

One reason Wade's numbers may be slightly down this year is due to to defenders willing to step off of Shaq as they expect Wade to drive. At times Wade appears to be forcing shots and action. Its a huge adjustment.


edit-------
Basically this thread is joke since we all seem to state Lebrons supporting cast isnt that strong. I mean he made the finals for christ's sake as a one man show. I cant even imagine how strong a Bron/dominant Shaq could be. That would be f'n scary

[Biff]

Lebron is better than Kobe IMO. The east might be a weaker division, but I don't see Kobe leading the Cavs past the Pistons. Compare their teams last year and I'd say each other's supporting cast was pretty close. No way in hell Kobe would have made it out of the east, regardless of how weak it currently is.

Also, regardless of how dominant in the paint Shaq was, isn't going to force Lebron to become a jumpshooter. Not that Kobe was a much better shooter at that time anyways. Lebron is a much better passer and facilitator and I can only imagine how good he'd be in the triangle. Shaq probably would have averaged 35 that year.

You can break down their games all you want and try to say Lebron is inferior, but Lebron has at least made it past the first round being the man. Kobe has only done something when he was playing second fiddle.

I think Bynum is going to be a beast, and already is pretty damn good, so I expect to see Kobe leading his team to the finals within the next couple years. If he does that, then I might consider him better than Lebron. He might be more talented, but Lebron is better within the team. Only time will tell I suppose.

Of course my opinion doesn't mean much to anyone other than myself. Just my .02

[B-Scott]

Kobe's jumper was not consistent in 1999/2000

And Lebron's is?

He was actually injured to start the season and the Lakers started off 12-3 without him.

Big **** deal.

Shaq was ridiculous that season.

No doubt. MVP of the league.

The Lakers with Van Exel and Eddie Jones got to the WCF in 1998

And Shaq and I forgot, how many championships did they win again?. While Shaq and Kobe won 3 championships.

Lebron not getting his props.

For what, a hypothetical situation that no one really knows what might happen. (picture)

B-Scott on Lebron.(picture)

My point about Van Exel and Eddie Jones is if they can get to the WCF with Shaq then most likely Lebron and Shaq go get to the next level.

Did you honestly think Scotti Pippen, Bonzi Wells, Steve Smith of 2000 would have been able to stay in front of Lebron. Portland would have been the only team Shaq and Lebron would have had to beat.

I think Lebron dominates that Portland team more then Kobe. Remember that wasnt prime Kobe.

[Harry Heinous]

I hate the player A for player B swap on championship teams. So many factors play into championship runs that's it's just dumb.

And if you're gonna do it, at least make it between 2 players who have actually won championships before.

The Tmac on the 99-02 Lakers or 06 Heat cracks me up. He's not a proven winner. Lebron has had a decent amount of playoff success, and he lead his team to the Finals. Yet, he still failed to take his game to the next level when it mattered the most. The Spurs were way superior to the Cavs, so I'm not holding it against him, but still you can't say he would of for sure come up huge like Kobe did during the 3peat.

[Milan24]

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My point about Van Exel and Eddie Jones is if they can get to the WCF with Shaq then most likely Lebron and Shaq go get to the next level.

Did you honestly think Scotti Pippen, Bonzi Wells, Steve Smith of 2000 would have been able to stay in front of Lebron. Portland would have been the only team Shaq and Lebron would have had to beat.

I think Lebron dominates that Portland team more then Kobe. Remember that wasnt prime Kobe.

What's the point of that post then? Shaq and Kobe won the Championship that year and I already said in my first post the Shaq and Lebron would of won it also.

[NetsForce]

I'm pretty sure Lebron would hold Shaq back.

[NOODLESTYLE]

^^^ touche

[C'mon Cavs]

Whoever says that the Cavs run the fastbreak is an idot...LeBron runs the fast break and the rest of the players just try to pass it to him correctly or get out of the way (which they usually fail at doing, as seen by Gooden "fouling" LeBron near the basket yesterday).

LeBron and Shaq (in his prime) would be unstoppable, they would have absolutely won 3 championships and probably even more.

People seem to think that LeBron would be turned into a perimeter shooter if he played with Shaq, but that would not be the case (see D-Wade). Some say that Shaq "clogs up the lane", but the way I see it, him standing near the basket makes LeBron a more dangerous driver because he has a 350 pound freak he can dish the ball to who will try to tear down the rim when he dunks (and sometimes succeeds), or if he misses on a drive, that same 350 found freak is there for the put back slam.

And another thing that Shaq would create is open shots for LeBron. All of LeBron's outside shots come off the dribble, usually against the shot clock, and usually with a guy right on him. If those perimeter shots were off of feeds from Shaq that left LBJ open, I think you'd see his 3 point % climb dramatically.

I fail to see how pairing two of the biggest physical freaks in the history of the league can lead to anything but good things. Imagine LeBron and Dwight Howard together...now imagine LeBron with a Dwight Howard who has post moves and weighs 60+ more pounds. Thats what LeBron and Shaq would be, and that would add up to many many championships.

Another thing we havent considered is how Shaq and LeBron would get along. All indications are that they would get along a lot better than Shaq and Kobe. Kobe is seen as having a "killer instinct" on the court, which is true, but it also persists off the court, where he criticizes his team, his teammates, etc.

LeBron and Shaq would probably never have the same problems that Kobe and Shaq did. LeBron wants to be your friend while Kobe just wants to be better than you all the time. LeBron seems to get along with just about everyone in the NBA...but not Kobe. What does that tell you?

Who knows though, on the flip side of this argument, LeBron has never had to coexist with another star player, so its all just speculation....but if LeBron would get along with Shaq like I think he would, it would add up to more than 3 championships...just my opinion.

[NetsForce]

Seriously, Lebron would just dribble the ball around for 20 seconds then drive and then he'd pass the ball turn his head the other way and pretend like he did some sick no-look pass at which point Shaq would catch the ball and be like "WTF? Why does he always pass the ball and turn his head to try to make himself look better?"

Shaq would then realize that he has the ball in his hand and get up a rushed shot as time expired.

[Icefire10304]

Seriously, Lebron would just dribble the ball around for 20 seconds then drive and then he'd pass the ball turn his head the other way and pretend like he did some sick no-look pass at which point Shaq would catch the ball and be like "WTF? Why does he always pass the ball and turn his head to try to make himself look better?"

Shaq would then realize that he has the ball in his hand and get up a rushed shot as time expired.

These LeBron haters are just hilarious

[INKtastic]

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Because the Cavs play fast break basketball, that Lakers team did not. You should know that, considering you call yourself a Laker fan. That in it self would reduce Lebron getting into the paint and factor in Shaq clogging the lane he would even get less looks in the paint.

Fast break basketball? You must be confusing cleveland with Phoenix. Is there somewhere that tracks team's fast break points for a season? I'd be pretty shocked if the cavs score more fast break points than the 3 peat lakers.

[Kobay]

Why is B-Scott bringing up kobe? This should be about how Shaq and Lamar Odom would have won 15 championship because Lamar can out dribble anyone that guards him.

[Milan24]

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Fast break basketball? You must be confusing cleveland with Phoenix. Is there somewhere that tracks team's fast break points for a season? I'd be pretty shocked if the cavs score more fast break points than the 3 peat lakers.

I didn't mean they are purely a fast break team like the Suns, I should of been a little more clear. But from the games I've seen of the Cavs this year, they get quite a few points on the break or in transition.

I am pretty sure they get more fast break points then the 3-peat Lakers did although I don't know where to get these stats from. 82games.com has stats from last year and I think the Cavs were 7th in the league in fast break points.

[Cavsfan4lyfe]

I don't know about this season, but last season the Cavs were statistically one of the slowest-paced teams in the league.

[B-Scott]

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I didn't mean they are purely a fast break team like the Suns, I should of been a little more clear. But from the games I've seen of the Cavs this year, they get quite a few points on the break or in transition.

I am pretty sure they get more fast break points then the 3-peat Lakers did although I don't know where to get these stats from. 82games.com has stats from last year and I think the Cavs were 7th in the league in fast break points.

Lebron would get plenty of fast break opportunities off Shaq's rebounds.

Rebound to Shaq, outlet to Harper. All Harper has to do is pass to Lebron who is streaking down the sideline for a dunk. Lebron is a one man fastbreak.

[Milan24]

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Lebron would get plenty of fast break opportunities off Shaq's rebounds.

Rebound to Shaq, outlet to Harper. All Harper has to do is pass to Lebron who is streaking down the sideline for a dunk. Lebron is a one man fastbreak.

That wouldn't happen any more then it did with Kobe.