What Does Curry have to Do to Pass LeBron All-Time?

[Iwasawitness]

MVPs, FMVPs and All-NBAs? All opinions. But let's convert the opinion to actual results shall we?

By my count Curry beat a player selected to the First Team All-NBA in a playoffs series 13 times.

LeBron? 5 times.

Ya nobody is going to respond to someone who cant accept facts

Facts are Lebron has those awards, even if you dislike the "opinions" (which are based off of numbers, team perfromance, and some eye test)

The reason why Curry doesnt have more than 1 fmvp is because he and Draymond cried like **** bitches to go get a top 3 player, arguably the #2 guy in the league, after already going 73-9 the year before

Also he was getting outplayed by Delly in 2 games and didn't play up to his own standards overall

And yet here you are responding.

The fact of the matter is that the awards that the NBA churns out are superfluous to the game itself. They are mainly there for marketing purposes. If all the NBA awards were ended, the game would still remain and one could still determine who the best player is because it is the game that is essential. Curry has 4 championships same as LeBron. Then there are the wins records. How the awards can come to a lopsided verdict based on that and expect to be taken seriously I don't know but if you wish to take them seriously that's your prerogative. But to my eye based on the essentials Curry has a superior case and I have explained why. You are free to explain why you think LeBron has a better case but if all you can do is cite other people's opinions then forgive me for thinking you really don't know why aside from your impression "Delly outplayed Curry for two games".

Hey buddy, don't think I've forgotten about you.

I'm still waiting for you to answer this question. Please respond.

Lets keep it simple

Mvps: 4 to 2
Fmvps: 4 to 1
All NBA: 19 to 9

Let alone the eye test

Curry is great when his team is great and loaded and there isn't a real challenge

They won in 2015 due to playing a depleted Cavs team out 2 all stars

They blew it in 2016

They then won 2 rings with KD. No adversity, nothing to overcome. 4 all stars, 2 with mvps in their primes, great spacing and solid role guys

They lost in 2019 in a moment where he could have done something great and overcome the odds. Also had a shot in game 6 to win it

The 2022 ring is finally a good accomplishment. Nothing crazy to get there as they beat an injured Denver and Memphis team and the Suns choked to the Mavs. Curry was very impressive in the finals, probably his best accomplishment. But a young boston team isn't a world beater either. Tatum was horrible and Brown turned it over any time he dribbled to his left

MVPs, FMVPs and All-NBAs? All opinions. But let's convert the opinion to actual results shall we?

By my count Curry beat a player selected to the First Team All-NBA in a playoffs series 13 times.

LeBron? 5 times.

When did Curry beat a first team All-NBA player in the playoffs 13 times? Was there a one on one playoff tournament that I wasn’t made aware of?

[Rainwater]

Yeah, while I am pretty certain that Cleveland would have loved to keep Wiggins, Lebron did not want to play with a rookie. And they weren’t going to compete with Wiggins in his first year.

I agree 100%

Unfortunately for the both of you, facts do not care about your feelings.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2133479-how-can-cleveland-cavaliers-survive-trading-andrew-wiggins.amp.html

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/11203427/kevin-love-intrigued-commit-cleveland-cavaliers

Again, at the time, the cavaliers did not want to trade Wiggins. This is a well known fact by people who were following the cavaliers closely at the time.

It is also a well known fact that LeBron did not contact Love until AFTER he returned to Cleveland.

MAVSDirk41, the only liar here is you. You said LeBron returned to Cleveland partially because of the Kevin Love situation. I have facts on my side that demonstrate that Love wasn’t even part of the equation at that point. It’s exactly like the time you claimed LeBron recruited Bosh to Miami, even though Bosh joined Miami first and LeBron was the one who tried to get Bosh to come to Cleveland, NOT Miami (and then you still pushed that narrative even after I and another poster gave you proof that was false). Or that time you tried to claim Drew Gooden averaged 14 PPG for five straight seasons and even had the audacity to tell me to “look it up”.

At this point it’s become pathetic. At least be willing to admit you’re full of **** so I don’t have to keep proving it myself. You’re only making it worse for yourself, I would hope you’d at least be smart enough to realize that. I mean hell, I even had enough decency to admit to being wrong about who called who… have enough character to do that yourself.

I am not playing sides here.

Who said that Cleveland wanted to trade Wiggins? Like I said pretty certain Cleveland at the time would have loved to keep Wiggins but to get Love you had to give him up especially with Lebron now there.

And you are correct Lebron’s arrival came prior to Love’s arrival. The two aren’t connected. However, when there was an opportunity to get Love pretty certain, regardless of how much they love Wiggins, there was pressure from Lebron to trade Wiggins for Loce to compete.

[Iwasawitness]

I agree 100%

Unfortunately for the both of you, facts do not care about your feelings.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2133479-how-can-cleveland-cavaliers-survive-trading-andrew-wiggins.amp.html

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/11203427/kevin-love-intrigued-commit-cleveland-cavaliers

Again, at the time, the cavaliers did not want to trade Wiggins. This is a well known fact by people who were following the cavaliers closely at the time.

It is also a well known fact that LeBron did not contact Love until AFTER he returned to Cleveland.

MAVSDirk41, the only liar here is you. You said LeBron returned to Cleveland partially because of the Kevin Love situation. I have facts on my side that demonstrate that Love wasn’t even part of the equation at that point. It’s exactly like the time you claimed LeBron recruited Bosh to Miami, even though Bosh joined Miami first and LeBron was the one who tried to get Bosh to come to Cleveland, NOT Miami (and then you still pushed that narrative even after I and another poster gave you proof that was false). Or that time you tried to claim Drew Gooden averaged 14 PPG for five straight seasons and even had the audacity to tell me to “look it up”.

At this point it’s become pathetic. At least be willing to admit you’re full of **** so I don’t have to keep proving it myself. You’re only making it worse for yourself, I would hope you’d at least be smart enough to realize that. I mean hell, I even had enough decency to admit to being wrong about who called who… have enough character to do that yourself.

I am not playing sides here.

Who said that Cleveland wanted to trade Wiggins? Like I said pretty certain Cleveland at the time would have loved to keep Wiggins but to get Love you had to give him up especially with Lebron now there.

And you are correct Lebron’s arrival came prior to Love’s arrival. The two aren’t connected. However, when there was an opportunity to get Love pretty certain, regardless of how much they love Wiggins, there was pressure from Lebron to trade Wiggins for Loce to compete.

The way you phrased your post made it sound like you were being sarcastic.

[Rainwater]

We are talking about NBA basketball are we not? The major team sport where stars probably have the most influence on the results? While strictly speaking winning a ring doesn't necessarily mean the star on the winning team was a better player, it most certainly is an indication of it. Now let's take into account further that the player involved is not only winning championships with his team, he is also setting records with it. This is an indication of an extreme outlier at work.

When you say that LeBron was clearly the best player on the court you are making an assumption. When you say that Curry had better teammates you are making another assumption. What is the evidence that LeBron was the best player on the court? The box scores? The losses he had suggest otherwise. That's because of Curry's teammates you say? How do we know it's not really Curry?

LeBron had his superteams with players who were more established but even Curry's 2015 team was by many metrics more notable (67-wins, top ten all-time elo rating) than any of LeBron's much less the teams with KD. It is easy to come up with reasonable explanations why that was the case. Curry is a more efficient scorer and doesn't dominate the ball. That allows his teammates to get better opportunities. Why should such a team empowering effect be overlooked? It shouldn't and that's why many people will say giving an FMVP to a player on the losing team no matter how impressive his boxscore numbers are is dumb.

Curry being as successful as he is on a team known for its beautiful and distinctive play undercuts your statement. If you don't think Curry is the most vital initiator of plays on the Warriors then maybe we should question your ability to understand what you are watching.

Honestly, i stopped reading your stuff awhile because it’s not logical. Sorry.

Then stop responding. This thread is unlikely to miss your input if you're the type of person who knows what is stated is logical or not despite not having read it.

All your prior post are not logical what’s the point of reading another one? Multiple people have complained about you and your posts already not just me. And you already had a post stating you were smarter than most. There is no point in wasting my time since you know everything.

When you said Curry is the best playmaker of all time when he may not even be the best playmaker on his team, I had to stop talking to you. You are just a troll.

[Rainwater]

Unfortunately for the both of you, facts do not care about your feelings.

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2133479-how-can-cleveland-cavaliers-survive-trading-andrew-wiggins.amp.html

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/11203427/kevin-love-intrigued-commit-cleveland-cavaliers

Again, at the time, the cavaliers did not want to trade Wiggins. This is a well known fact by people who were following the cavaliers closely at the time.

It is also a well known fact that LeBron did not contact Love until AFTER he returned to Cleveland.

MAVSDirk41, the only liar here is you. You said LeBron returned to Cleveland partially because of the Kevin Love situation. I have facts on my side that demonstrate that Love wasn’t even part of the equation at that point. It’s exactly like the time you claimed LeBron recruited Bosh to Miami, even though Bosh joined Miami first and LeBron was the one who tried to get Bosh to come to Cleveland, NOT Miami (and then you still pushed that narrative even after I and another poster gave you proof that was false). Or that time you tried to claim Drew Gooden averaged 14 PPG for five straight seasons and even had the audacity to tell me to “look it up”.

At this point it’s become pathetic. At least be willing to admit you’re full of **** so I don’t have to keep proving it myself. You’re only making it worse for yourself, I would hope you’d at least be smart enough to realize that. I mean hell, I even had enough decency to admit to being wrong about who called who… have enough character to do that yourself.

I am not playing sides here.

Who said that Cleveland wanted to trade Wiggins? Like I said pretty certain Cleveland at the time would have loved to keep Wiggins but to get Love you had to give him up especially with Lebron now there.

And you are correct Lebron’s arrival came prior to Love’s arrival. The two aren’t connected. However, when there was an opportunity to get Love pretty certain, regardless of how much they love Wiggins, there was pressure from Lebron to trade Wiggins for Loce to compete.

The way you phrased your post made it sound like you were being sarcastic.

I wasn’t but it’s fine.

[JordansBulls]

If Lebron achieved what Curry has done he'd be considered the undisputed GOAT.

If Curry did what Lebron did, he’d be better than Jordan undisputedly.


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4 titles in 20 years switching teams 4 times and losing to a guy who came in after you more times head to head in the playoffs with as many titles as you?

[Lockdown504090]

If Lebron achieved what Curry has done he'd be considered the undisputed GOAT.

if curry was as good as lebron hed be the undisputed GOAT

[LakersLegacy]

Neither are closers

CURRY DOESNT CARE ABOUT DEFENSE
LEBRON DOES

So LeBron is better period.
Ranking is broken
DRAY GREEN has made more play-off 3s than DIRK
Curry had 42 double teams to just 2 double teams for Durant when Durant won those Finals MVPs

To each their own
People don’t use ratios or facts when ranking basketball
The NON-DETAIL STATS are not the story. It’s the DETAIL-STATS that are JUST BURYING any logical ranking

[thebigbird]

He’s well on his way after tonight’s performance. Curry masterclass in the clutch.

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[LBJKB24MJ23]

If Lebron achieved what Curry has done he'd be considered the undisputed GOAT.

If Curry did what Lebron did, he’d be better than Jordan undisputedly.


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4 titles in 20 years switching teams 4 times and losing to a guy who came in after you more times head to head in the playoffs with as many titles as you?

i mean the Curry fan boys going hard like lebron fan boys, ya, undoubtedly.

[MavsDirk41]

As soon as he signed with Cleveland there was speculation about Cleveland trading that pick for a win now player who would be a better fit with James and Irving. I never said a deal was completed before he signed, i simply said he recruited Love and imo the pick was shopped to see what they could get for a trade. Do i think he wanted Cleveland to trade that pick? Yea, absolutely. Is there proof that he did or didnt? I never said he wasnt going to sign unless Wiggins was traded. I said imo he wanted Cleveland to trade the pick for a proven player .its all speculation but he called Love and a trade eventually made. What are we arguing about?

Jesus dude. Now you're going to try to backtrack?

It didnt have anything to do with Wade only playing 53 regular season games that last year James spent in Miami and Wade struggling in the finals? Or Cleveland having a 22 year old all star guard and having a draft pick that they were willing to trade for a 26 year old all star power forward?

This is what you said. You are very clearly stating that LeBron would not have gone to Cleveland had it not been for Cleveland being willing to depart with said draft pick. And thanks to the sequence of events that occurred as well as sources stating that Cleveland originally had 0 intention of trading Wiggins, this is clearly false.

Again, be willing to at least own up to what you say.

If i said James recruited Bosh to Miami ok i was wrong, but they all talked about teaming up and they did. Who was the mastermind? Who knows! But they all ended up playing together to form a big 3….spin it how you want, say it was Wades idea, or Bosh, who cares? They teamed up to form a superteam.

THERE YOU GO. Finally. You actually admit to being wrong about something. Now imagine if you did that more often.

(well, you'd be doing it all the time).

Hell, I'll even be nice to you and give you something. You are in fact right that they did talk about teaming up at one point... in 2008... in a casual conversation when they were playing for team USA. So in other words, nah, not really. I mean yeah, they absolutely did, but they most certainly did not determine right there and then that they were going to do it.

I can just imagine you in your parents basement getting all butt hurt when someone calls out your little hero for teaming up with a bunch of other star players. Hate boner lol? Coming from a guy who has to make excuses for another grown man? Pretty sad man

Well I'm thankful that I'm not a basement dwelling hermit (and btw, very original retort, I totally haven't heard that one before). But let me be clear: I would rather be a basement dwelling hermit living with his parents well into his 40s, than be so bad at reading numbers that I can't even tell the difference between averaging 14 PPG for one season and averaging 14 PPG for five.

About three weeks after James signed with Cleveland Woj reported that Cleveland traded for Love. During his press conference he said that he was looking forward to mentoring Varejao and Waiters. No mention of Bennet or Wiggins. Why is that? Because he knew that trade would happen. Management wanted to keep Wiggins but James wanted Love. He got his other all star teammate.

“What Kevin Love trade says about Lebron James clout in Cleveland” Josh Martin 8/7/2014

You like articles then read it.

James was part of putting together two big 3s. That is a fact. Was it illegal or against the rules? No. Was it very weak? Imo yes. You get butthurt about it and throw a little tantrum like a baby if someone calls him out for it. I have never seen anybody on here act like you do after someone calls out a player. Its pretty hilarious and sad. I dont like James and i never have. I got no problem admittimg it. You have probably heard the sitting in your parents basement before because you are a little tough guy on the internet. But no worries little guy you are still ole chosens number one fan on here

[JN61]

I don't get why this thread is 15 pages long. Curry can't even hold lebrons jockstrap and Curry is so over the hill already there is just no chance he is leading team to the finals let alone winning anything. Combine this all with him not winning any more MVPs and he is basically set. Outside of top 15 all time.

[Iwasawitness]

If Lebron achieved what Curry has done he'd be considered the undisputed GOAT.

If Curry did what Lebron did, he’d be better than Jordan undisputedly.


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4 titles in 20 years switching teams 4 times and losing to a guy who came in after you more times head to head in the playoffs with as many titles as you?

This is the second time I’m seeing this. Where was this one on one tournament that supposedly happened and where can I watch it?

[Cavsfansince84]

4 titles in 20 years switching teams 4 times and losing to a guy who came in after you more times head to head in the playoffs with as many titles as you?

Switching teams in and of itself is not some kind of legit criticism of any player. If anything, its probably harder to win changing rosters all the time compared to having the same coach, system and teammates year after year if they are good if not superior to the rest of the league. I mean MJ basically retired rather than risk going somewhere else imo. It's much better for an atg player to walk into a situation like with what Magic had, Duncan had, Russell had(atg coach/gm who knew how to construct teams) etc than what LeBron walked into for his first 7 years.

[Marrrcuss]

He’s well on his way after tonight’s performance. Curry masterclass in the clutch.

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This post will be ignored like a mofo, lol.

[RoyalWun]

He doesn't have to do anything at all.

Because it will never happen.

[MacGill]

Can't be bothered to drop to your 'almighty' level here so again, I'll just ask the same question and please read it slower this time and take as much time as you need.

I don't care for your blatant and unnecessary disrespect so our discourse will end here, as it’s no longer going to result in a productive conversation.

To confirm, you're the one who took my original message to you as an attack and told me to 'grow up'. You don't have to answer the question or respond back to me but let's at least be honest in your passive/aggressive comments here. All of this over a dude who you don't even know and only watch on tv. I would have at least expected better from a forum mod versus a random poster. You can check my post history, I always look for and provide mostly productive conversation and debate. There is nothing wrong with challenging a narrative regardless if it rattles emotions from supporters. I accept your message above. All the best.

[Rainwater]

If Curry did what Lebron did, he’d be better than Jordan undisputedly.


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4 titles in 20 years switching teams 4 times and losing to a guy who came in after you more times head to head in the playoffs with as many titles as you?

i mean the Curry fan boys going hard like lebron fan boys, ya, undoubtedly.

I know they are Curry Fan boys but it's just a ridiculous claim. Other than shooting and the gravity argument what actually makes Steph a better player than Lebron? There is nothing that indicates that Steph is better; stats and accolades. And in their primes, when you watch the two play against one another, Lebron out plays him. I just don't see an argument for Steph.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

4 titles in 20 years switching teams 4 times and losing to a guy who came in after you more times head to head in the playoffs with as many titles as you?

i mean the Curry fan boys going hard like lebron fan boys, ya, undoubtedly.

I know they are Curry Fan boys but it's just a ridiculous claim. Other than shooting and the gravity argument what actually makes Steph a better player than Lebron? There is nothing that indicates that Steph is better; stats and accolades. And in their primes, when you watch the two play against one another, Lebron out plays him. I just don't see an argument for Steph.

we're talking about the two players switching places and having each other's records/stats/championships.

[Rainwater]

i mean the Curry fan boys going hard like lebron fan boys, ya, undoubtedly.

I know they are Curry Fan boys but it's just a ridiculous claim. Other than shooting and the gravity argument what actually makes Steph a better player than Lebron? There is nothing that indicates that Steph is better; stats and accolades. And in their primes, when you watch the two play against one another, Lebron out plays him. I just don't see an argument for Steph.

we're talking about the two players switching places and having each other's records/stats/championships.

I am a little confused by what you mean.