Jokic is not the best in the world, and has been heavily overrated (NOW YOU CAN CHANGE VOTES)

[Impuniti]

Read on Twitter

And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

This is such a dumb, ignorant post. Just as bad as the one who created this topic. His "non all star" teammate averaged 33PPG on 65% TS in a conference finals. You want take a gander and guess how many 2nd choice all stars have achieved that in NBA history?

[Billy Goat]

Jokic is underrated if anything.

[AleksandarN]

Read on Twitter

And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

This is such a dumb, ignorant post. Just as bad as the one who created this topic. His "non all star" teammate averaged 33PPG on 65% TS in a conference finals. You want take a gander and guess how many 2nd choice all stars have achieved that in NBA history?

One series. The problem is Murray is not consistent enough. The amount of energy it takes for Jokic to carry through the regular season is a lot. People forget how much of a burden that takes on you. I just wish Murray was better during the regular season so Jokic can expend less and be fresher. Jokic can do only so much. On top of that Jokic doesn’t have anyone else who is an all team defensive player either. It takes more than one player to win championships but don’t act like Jokic has as much help as all other top 20 players in NBA history.

[jigga_man]

Read on Twitter

And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

Meaningless, Murray put up superstar numbers last year in the playoffs. As soon as Jokic doesn't have a Robin, he get wiped out. We've seen it before when he was the 6th seed when Murray went down, and now when he's getting exposed with Murray playing poorly. Great system player, but that's it.

This is such a dumb, ignorant post. Just as bad as the one who created this topic. His "non all star" teammate averaged 33PPG on 65% TS in a conference finals. You want take a gander and guess how many 2nd choice all stars have achieved that in NBA history?

So what. Donte Divicenzo has averaged 27/4/3 dating back to the Philly series. And you're going on about a four game stretch?

Perhaps elite players bring out the best out of decent starters/role players?

[danvato]

Yep, it's almost always about Murray. One playoff game in 10, at most, Jokic will not be good enough -- as with Game 2 this series. The rest of the time, he's the best player on the court and his team will probably win, if Murray shows.

If Murray doesn't show ... shrug. Shaq couldn't win without Penny, Kobe, or DWade, and nobody expected him to do so.

At least you admit Jokic can't win without help. Nobody said he's not a good player, but unlike other ATG's he needs help to win at the highest levels.

i don't know, i think if the NBA allowed teams to play 1 on 5 and put up a few brick walls on the court so Jokic can use them for pick and rolls, he'd probably still have the Denver Jokics in the play-offs as a top seed. He doesn't need teammates at all.

[shi-woo]

Read on Twitter

And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

This is such a dumb, ignorant post. Just as bad as the one who created this topic. His "non all star" teammate averaged 33PPG on 65% TS in a conference finals. You want take a gander and guess how many 2nd choice all stars have achieved that in NBA history?

And this post is even worse than the other 2.

Caleb Martin last year averaged 19/6 on 60/50/90 shooting in the Conference finals, you ready to hand him a Max contract?



Just because one guy plays above his level for a fewgames doesn't change the fact that Nikola has done the most with least in the modern NBA.

The point of bringing up his team mates is because yall are clowning him when they don't show up, when he doesn't get the consistent help that other players get. It's all about consistency, no one cares if you had a Linsanity moment, everyone would much rather have Chris Paul year round.

And as the past couple threads have beaten to death, Jokic isn't playing with this all time great cast, and people need to stop acting like he does. "The Nuggets are a great team!" narrative is just trash, a way of discrediting an ATG compared to his peers who when they win it's "look at that carry job, Shaq in 01 LeBron in CLE!" and when they lose it's "LeBron needs more help! Kobe needs more help!"

Jokic and Steph seem to be held to a different, and in my opinion, higher standard than other stars. So yes, what Jokic is doing playing with a bunch of unaccomplished, non alltar/All NBA/MVP players, needs to be pointed out and heralded

[AleksandarN]

Read on Twitter

And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

This is such a dumb, ignorant post. Just as bad as the one who created this topic. His "non all star" teammate averaged 33PPG on 65% TS in a conference finals. You want take a gander and guess how many 2nd choice all stars have achieved that in NBA history?

The irony lol

[danvato]

And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

Meaningless, Murray put up superstar numbers last year in the playoffs. As soon as Jokic doesn't have a Robin, he get wiped out. We've seen it before when he was the 6th seed when Murray went down, and now when he's getting exposed with Murray playing poorly. Great system player, but that's it.

I will bring this up again

Read on Twitter

**** this guy for blanking out the names and putting it behind a paywall.

[bisme37]

3 time MVP Nicola Jokic hit a big milestone last night as he passed all time greats Moses Malone, Steve Nash and Jaylen Brown in career playoff scoring.

https://hoopshype.com/2024/05/11/playoff-scoring-nikola-jokic-moves-past-moses-malone-jaylen-brown-and-steve-nash/

[NZB2323]

Read on Twitter

And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

Meaningless, Murray put up superstar numbers last year in the playoffs. As soon as Jokic doesn't have a Robin, he get wiped out. We've seen it before when he was the 6th seed when Murray went down, and now when he's getting exposed with Murray playing poorly. Great system player, but that's it.

How many rings does Shaq have without Kobe or Wade? How many rings does Magic have without Kareem or Worthy? How many rings does Kareem have without Oscar or Magic? How many rings does Jordan have without Pippen? How many rings does LeBron have without Wade, Kyrie, or AD?

A great player isn’t exposed if they lose without their Robin.

[danvato]

Read on Twitter

And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

This is such a dumb, ignorant post. Just as bad as the one who created this topic. His "non all star" teammate averaged 33PPG on 65% TS in a conference finals. You want take a gander and guess how many 2nd choice all stars have achieved that in NBA history?

it's not dumb at all. His teammate was terrific and a major reason for their title run. Noone ever won a championship withuot multiple player playing amazing. It changes absolutely nothing about the fact that that teamate is 7th NBA season and has never been an all-star and niether has anyone else on the team. That DOES speak to the level and quality of his teammates.

Never mind the fact that the conversation is about regular season MVP, so what Jamal Murray did in the play-offs is utterly irrelevant.

[Sgt Major]

Read on Twitter

And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

Meaningless, Murray put up superstar numbers last year in the playoffs. As soon as Jokic doesn't have a Robin, he get wiped out. We've seen it before when he was the 6th seed when Murray went down, and now when he's getting exposed with Murray playing poorly. Great system player, but that's it.

Who played with him when Murray was out and where are those players now?

I get that you're doing this on purpose and I feel sorry that you're spending your time like this.

[NZB2323]

3 time MVP Nicola Jokic hit a big milestone last night as he passed all time greats Moses Malone, Steve Nash and Jaylen Brown in career playoff scoring.

https://hoopshype.com/2024/05/11/playoff-scoring-nikola-jokic-moves-past-moses-malone-jaylen-brown-and-steve-nash/

Did you just call Jaylen Brown an all-time great?

[bisme37]

3 time MVP Nicola Jokic hit a big milestone last night as he passed all time greats Moses Malone, Steve Nash and Jaylen Brown in career playoff scoring.

https://hoopshype.com/2024/05/11/playoff-scoring-nikola-jokic-moves-past-moses-malone-jaylen-brown-and-steve-nash/

Did you just call Jaylen Brown an all-time great?

Yes.

[NZB2323]

3 time MVP Nicola Jokic hit a big milestone last night as he passed all time greats Moses Malone, Steve Nash and Jaylen Brown in career playoff scoring.

https://hoopshype.com/2024/05/11/playoff-scoring-nikola-jokic-moves-past-moses-malone-jaylen-brown-and-steve-nash/

Did you just call Jaylen Brown an all-time great?

Yes.

3x all-star
1x all-NBA

I think he needs to add to his resume before he can be called that. Yeah, he’s scored some points in the playoffs but Jeff Hornacek, Derek Fisher, and Byron Scott have all scored more and I don’t think anyone would call those guys all-time greats.

[Impuniti]

And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

Meaningless, Murray put up superstar numbers last year in the playoffs. As soon as Jokic doesn't have a Robin, he get wiped out. We've seen it before when he was the 6th seed when Murray went down, and now when he's getting exposed with Murray playing poorly. Great system player, but that's it.

This is such a dumb, ignorant post. Just as bad as the one who created this topic. His "non all star" teammate averaged 33PPG on 65% TS in a conference finals. You want take a gander and guess how many 2nd choice all stars have achieved that in NBA history?

So what. Donte Divicenzo has averaged 27/4/3 dating back to the Philly series. And you're going on about a four game stretch?

Perhaps elite players bring out the best out of decent starters/role players?

I never said otherwise? Jokic absolutely elevates his teammates games, he's the most unique center we maybe have ever seen. That doesn't change the fact that Murray has played like an all star in the playoffs for several years (bubble run was even more ridiculous).

As for Donte, he's averaging 18PPG on 56% TS this playoff run. If Done has a great run this season, he will get a lot of credit. That doesn't change Murray has had several great playoff runs. The entire premise of "Jokic hasn't played with all stars" is completely idiotic because Murray has played above what he's played during the regular season. And people are purposely ignoring to gas up an odd statistic. If Murray didn't play like an all star during the PS, Jokic would be like Embiid, a conference virgin. Which is the case for every top player.

[Impuniti]

And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

This is such a dumb, ignorant post. Just as bad as the one who created this topic. His "non all star" teammate averaged 33PPG on 65% TS in a conference finals. You want take a gander and guess how many 2nd choice all stars have achieved that in NBA history?

One series. The problem is Murray is not consistent enough. The amount of energy it takes for Jokic to carry through the regular season is a lot. People forget how much of a burden that takes on you. I just wish Murray was better during the regular season so Jokic can expend less and be fresher. Jokic can do only so much. On top of that Jokic doesn’t have anyone else who is an all team defensive player either. It takes more than one player to win championships but don’t act like Jokic has as much help as all other top 20 players in NBA history.

1 series? What planet are you living under? He had 26PPG on 63% TS as a #2 during the bubble run. Has won many games by himself. Which is what Murray should be doing, because that's his job as a #2. But anyone that wants to make it seem that Murray hasn't played like an all star during his playoff career with Joker is either being purposefully dense on purpose and completely empty upstairs.

Murray is injury prone and those issues have hurt the Joker during regular season. Others have had to deal with this as well.

[Impuniti]

And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

This is such a dumb, ignorant post. Just as bad as the one who created this topic. His "non all star" teammate averaged 33PPG on 65% TS in a conference finals. You want take a gander and guess how many 2nd choice all stars have achieved that in NBA history?

And this post is even worse than the other 2.

Caleb Martin last year averaged 19/6 on 60/50/90 shooting in the Conference finals, you ready to hand him a Max contract?

How are you comparing a 16/9 performance to someone who averaged 33? Or pretending as if Murray has never had a great series?

Just because one guy plays above his level for a fewgames doesn't change the fact that Nikola has done the most with least in the modern NBA.

The point of bringing up his team mates is because yall are clowning him when they don't show up, when he doesn't get the consistent help that other players get. It's all about consistency, no one cares if you had a Linsanity moment, everyone would much rather have Chris Paul year round.

And as the past couple threads have beaten to death, Jokic isn't playing with this all time great cast, and people need to stop acting like he does. "The Nuggets are a great team!" narrative is just trash, a way of discrediting an ATG compared to his peers who when they win it's "look at that carry job, Shaq in 01 LeBron in CLE!" and when they lose it's "LeBron needs more help! Kobe needs more help!"

Jokic and Steph seem to be held to a different, and in my opinion, higher standard than other stars. So yes, what Jokic is doing playing with a bunch of unaccomplished, non alltar/All NBA/MVP players, needs to be pointed out and heralded

I always appreciate strong confidence that's paired with total ignorance.

Jokic and Murray net rating on off in the 23' playoffs

+12 - Jokic on, Murray on
+3 - Jokic off, Murray on
-6 - Jokic on, Murray off
+14 - Jokic off, Murray off (38 mins, too small a sample to actually matter)

Remove Murray from the conversation
+9 - Jokic on vs off
+5.5 - Jokic off

Jokic's team last season has absolutely stepped up and been elite last postseason. Eye test and data both back this up. No Steph or Lebron team has ever had a +5.5 with either of them off the floor during a playoff run (25 season sample put together), including that 16-1 PS run with Steph & KD. Does this automatically mean that Jokic's team last PS was better than every team those 2 have been on? No, that's we use context and common sense with data. But this horrible take that Jokic played with a mediocre to crap team last season is not only factually wrong, it's a completely stupid take.

[Impuniti]

And did this without playing with an all star or all nba team mate

Almost feel sorry for the OP.

This is such a dumb, ignorant post. Just as bad as the one who created this topic. His "non all star" teammate averaged 33PPG on 65% TS in a conference finals. You want take a gander and guess how many 2nd choice all stars have achieved that in NBA history?

it's not dumb at all. His teammate was terrific and a major reason for their title run. Noone ever won a championship withuot multiple player playing amazing. It changes absolutely nothing about the fact that that teamate is 7th NBA season and has never been an all-star and niether has anyone else on the team. That DOES speak to the level and quality of his teammates.

Never mind the fact that the conversation is about regular season MVP, so what Jamal Murray did in the play-offs is utterly irrelevant.

No, it doesn't change the fact that in 7 years his teammate hasn't had an all star nomination, true. It does however matter when his teammate has played like an all star in the playoffs for multiple seasons and the way this statistic is framed as if Jokic doesn't play with a quality team.

MPJ this PS is putting up 21 on 67% TS (not sustainable for long).. as a 3rd option. I don't understand this pathetic need to dumb down his teammates to prop him up, it feels like I'm in a Lebron thread. It's not necessary. Jokic is the best player in the world and one of the best ever (definitely on that path). He's won 3 MPVs, ironically during the RS where his top teammates haven't played either enough or to the level they play in the playoffs.

[bisme37]

Did you just call Jaylen Brown an all-time great?

Yes.

3x all-star
1x all-NBA

I think he needs to add to his resume before he can be called that. Yeah, he’s scored some points in the playoffs but Jeff Hornacek, Derek Fisher, and Byron Scott have all scored more and I don’t think anyone would call those guys all-time greats.

I was just making a joke, man.