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BTW, Is there no illegal PED guy in southern Cali that can get Bron one of those miracle drinks to get him through the 4th quarter?

If Lebron was in his prime and losing, I would agree with you.
That's like saying Jordan's last two seasons with the Wizards which he was 38/38 BTW meant that he didn't get free passes for his play and he's a loser.

LeBron not even top 20 all time judging from this thread?

EmpireFalls wrote:LeBron not even top 20 all time judging from this thread?

No, he is GOOOOAT.... ring-chaser

Gregoire wrote:

EmpireFalls wrote:LeBron not even top 20 all time judging from this thread?

No, he is GOOOOAT.... ring-chaser

I was about to go a different direction but let me ask, what professional athlete isnt a ring chaser? What is a ring chaser since yall said he went to LA to do movies. Im confused.

EArl wrote:If Lebron was in his prime and losing, I would agree with you.
That's like saying Jordan's last two seasons with the Wizards which he was 38/38 BTW meant that he didn't get free passes for his play and he's a loser.

Yeah, it really is one of those things where nothing he does is really gonna detract from his legacy, he can only add to it. Like Kareem once Magic took over

Like, look at the people who are the most vocal about it in this thread, they're all people who made up their minds about LeBron 13 years ago and have been trying to find any angle to prove themselves right since

I don't think I've seen a single person whose ranking of LeBron has actually dropped the past few years, it's all the same people trying to convince everyone else they were right all along.

Marrrcuss wrote:

Gregoire wrote:

EmpireFalls wrote:LeBron not even top 20 all time judging from this thread?

No, he is GOOOOAT.... ring-chaser

I was about to go a different direction but let me ask, what professional athlete isnt a ring chaser? What is a ring chaser since yall said he went to LA to do movies. Im confused.

Jordan (stayed in Bulls then went to Wizards without minimal odds to win the ring), Russell, Curry, Bird, Magic, Kobe... I need to continue? All great players (its majority) who didnt changed teams every 3-4 years and/or retired early. Yes, there are Durant, Wilt, Shaq.. but even here LeBron is standing out.

Listen I don't fault him for not making the finals at this age but I will place fault if they get SWEPT by the Nuggets again. If Jokic does this he would have beaten Lebron a 12th time in a row which is absolutely not acceptable 39 or not.

How is an obvious bait thread this long lol. You guys fall for it every time. This isn’t even lebrons team anymore it’s ADs.

It's so funny that people complain about the major media sites and networks spending too much time on Bron and the Lakers, and yet I see 4-5 threads about Bron and even more about the Lakers on this very forum, on the front page. I promise you, it's okay to divert your attention to the other playoff series.

Lebron's legacy as a Top 10 player is set. Does this hurt it, I guess. But people who have him high mostly value his stats anyway

Gregoire wrote:

Marrrcuss wrote:

Gregoire wrote:
No, he is GOOOOAT.... ring-chaser

I was about to go a different direction but let me ask, what professional athlete isnt a ring chaser? What is a ring chaser since yall said he went to LA to do movies. Im confused.

Jordan (stayed in Bulls then went to Wizards without minimal odds to win the ring), Russell, Curry, Bird, Magic, Kobe... I need to continue? All great players (its majority) who didnt changed teams every 3-4 years and/or retired early. Yes, there are Durant, Wilt, Shaq.. but even here LeBron is standing out.

So you value a player staying with one team. Kobe actually tried to get traded but we can act as though you didnt know that.

As a minority, i give no fux about a player being loyal to a franchise or business. In fact, after seeing the crap they did to I.Thomas and others, i think its stupid. We can differ on that because i am guessing we are from different perspectives.

You ignored Brons move to LA because it didnt fit your narrative. I caught that.

An Unbiased Fan wrote:Lebron's legacy as a Top 10 player is set. Does this hurt it, I guess. But people who have him high mostly value his stats anyway

Or we watched him play.

Drakeem wrote:It's so funny that people complain about the major media sites and networks spending too much time on Bron and the Lakers, and yet I see 4-5 threads about Bron and even more about the Lakers on this very forum, on the front page. I promise you, it's okay to divert your attention to the other playoff series.

And its not from Bron stans or fans, its his haters having a field day.

prophet_of_rage wrote:And you see the fatal glow in your approach. The fact that Lebron plays in a tougher league doesn't mean that MJ wouldn't be the same player in the league. It means that team success is likely to be worse the tougher the league you are in.

That's still a hypothetical. You're assuming a prime MJ with a legit supporting cast wouldn't win as much in today's era. You don't know that. Nobody does. Would he win 6? More than 6? Less than 6? More than Lebron? Who knows, there's too many variables. In his prime would he have beaten Pop/Duncan Spurs? Shaq/Kobe? Is Phil with MJ or Shaq/Kobe? Are Shaq/Kobe even as good without Phil? I doubt it. Would the Bulls have adapted to today's play style? This is all speculative, which is fun to entertain, but can't be seriously used as evidence for arguing a player being better than another because it's not really provable. Would MJ be threatened by 21 year old Paul George, DeFrozan, baby version Isiah Thomas, under drinking age Tatum and and Brown? I doubt that...

prophet_of_rage wrote:You can pretend the Bulls weren't the 2017 Warriors but they were for their era. The 80s trams had broken up and the salary cap rules meant every team had two stars and a bunch of role players. Thanks to MJ and Pippen signing bad deals they were able to add at various times Rodman, Grant, Kukoc and Harper.

If the Bulls were like 17 GS, it's because MJ made them that monster team. It wasn't because they had such a flooded unfair advantage of talent. You just said it, every team had two stars like the Bulls so what exactly made the Bulls so demonstratively overloaded outside of MJ's greatness? Rodman was a cast off after his prime who was almost blackballed out the league. Even if he was this "unfair advantage" MJ had a dynasty without him and started by beating the team Rodman was on while he was in his actual prime, so it wasn't like MJ "needed him". Harper was a defense only guard averaging 7PPG. Kerr was a sharpshooter. Kurkoc was a good bench player. Were the Bulls the only team in the league with the "luxury" of a shooter and a good bench player? No, they weren't. Smartly constructed? Yes. Overly stacked ala 17 GS? Lol, no.

prophet_of_rage wrote:The Bulls won 55 games with Pippen and Grant. Two All-Stars. You couldn't keep a team like that together today.

And what was that team doing after Pippen quit on them? 26-29 at the AS break, struggling to stay .500 just to go 13-4 after MJ came back to close out the season after they got the leadership and spark that they definitely needed. Grant was an All Star one time his whole life and it wasn't with MJ. MJ only had 1 All Star his whole career for only 6 seasons. That's a fact.But despite that, since when could you not keep a team with 2-3 All Stars today? Have you been living under a rock? They've been around almost every corner for the last 15 years.

Realgm is just like ESPN. Nuggets beat the Lakers in an astounding 11th in a row (could end up being a back-to-back sweep) yet all of the talks/thread here is about the Lebron and the Lakers or a Lebron VS MJ takes, and basicically nothing else. I would feel disrespected if I were the Nuggets and other team fans.

One thing I’ve noticed people do without fail is lionize the guys Lebron loses to.

Everyone knows Duncan was an ATG, but he also had a lot of help. Parker, Ginobli, Kawhi, great role players, the greatest coach of all time… You look at PC board top 100 list and Duncan is now all the way up to 5th all time. Sorry, TD isn’t the 5th greatest player ever.

Lebron loses to Warriors and now people think 6’6 Draymond is the greatest defender ever. Yeah, he’s really good. Is he the GOAT defender? NO!! He’s not even on the top 10 list! Also, small ball Warriors are the GOAT team because Lebron lost to them.

Lebron can’t beat Jokic and so now Jokic is the best player since Jordan and people are arguing about whether his peak is the GOAT peak. Jokic is amazing. Is he the greatest player of all time? NO!!

I’m surprised Lebron fans aren’t claiming Tyson Chandler is the greatest defensive big just because Lebron lost to him.

This is one of the ways we do give Lebron a free pass. Not everyone needs to be the greatest just because Lebron lost to them.

VanWest82 wrote:One thing I’ve noticed people do without fail is lionize the guys Lebron loses to.

Everyone knows Duncan was an ATG, but he also had a lot of help. Parker, Ginobli, Kawhi, great role players, the greatest coach of all time… You look at PC board top 100 list and Duncan is now all the way up to 5th all time. Sorry, TD isn’t the 5th greatest player ever.

Lebron loses to Warriors and now people think 6’6 Draymond is the greatest defender ever. Yeah, he’s really good. Is he the GOAT defender? NO!! He’s not even on the top 10 list! Also, small ball Warriors are the GOAT team because Lebron lost to them.

Lebron can’t beat Jokic and so now Jokic is the best player since Jordan and people are arguing about whether his peak is the GOAT peak. Jokic is amazing. Is he the greatest player of all time? NO!!

I’m surprised Lebron fans aren’t claiming Tyson Chandler is the greatest defensive big just because Lebron lost to him.

This is one of the ways we do give Lebron a free pass. Not everyone needs to be the greatest just because Lebron lost to them.

Jokic greatness has very little to do with the sweeping the first round a couple times

VanWest82 wrote:One thing I’ve noticed people do without fail is lionize the guys Lebron loses to.

Everyone knows Duncan was an ATG, but he also had a lot of help. Parker, Ginobli, Kawhi, great role players, the greatest coach of all time… You look at PC board top 100 list and Duncan is now all the way up to 5th all time. Sorry, TD isn’t the 5th greatest player ever.

Lebron loses to Warriors and now people think 6’6 Draymond is the greatest defender ever. Yeah, he’s really good. Is he the GOAT defender? NO!! He’s not even on the top 10 list! Also, small ball Warriors are the GOAT team because Lebron lost to them.

Lebron can’t beat Jokic and so now Jokic is the best player since Jordan and people are arguing about whether his peak is the GOAT peak. Jokic is amazing. Is he the greatest player of all time? NO!!

I’m surprised Lebron fans aren’t claiming Tyson Chandler is the greatest defensive big just because Lebron lost to him.

This is one of the ways we do give Lebron a free pass. Not everyone needs to be the greatest just because Lebron lost to them.

Ahh, your strategy is not to exaggerate but just to straight on lie? Most folks don't even like Draymond but said Golden State had an unbeatable team with KD.

Now LeBron/Laker fans are out of line for praising Jokic? How dare we???!?!?!?

AlexanderRight wrote:

prophet_of_rage wrote:And you see the fatal glow in your approach. The fact that Lebron plays in a tougher league doesn't mean that MJ wouldn't be the same player in the league. It means that team success is likely to be worse the tougher the league you are in.

That's still a hypothetical. You're assuming a prime MJ with a legit supporting cast wouldn't win as much in today's era. You don't know that. Nobody does. Would he win 6? More than 6? Less than 6? More than Lebron? Who knows, there's too many variables. In his prime would he have beaten Pop/Duncan Spurs? Shaq/Kobe? Is Phil with MJ or Shaq/Kobe? Are Shaq/Kobe even as good without Phil? I doubt it. Would the Bulls have adapted to today's play style? This is all speculative, which is fun to entertain, but can't be seriously used as evidence for arguing a player being better than another because it's not really provable. Would MJ be threatened by 21 year old Paul George, DeFrozan, baby version Isiah Thomas, under drinking age Tatum and and Brown? I doubt that...

prophet_of_rage wrote:You can pretend the Bulls weren't the 2017 Warriors but they were for their era. The 80s trams had broken up and the salary cap rules meant every team had two stars and a bunch of role players. Thanks to MJ and Pippen signing bad deals they were able to add at various times Rodman, Grant, Kukoc and Harper.

If the Bulls were like 17 GS, it's because MJ made them that monster team. It wasn't because they had such a flooded unfair advantage of talent. You just said it, every team had two stars like the Bulls so what exactly made the Bulls so demonstratively overloaded outside of MJ's greatness? Rodman was a cast off after his prime who was almost blackballed out the league. Even if he was this "unfair advantage" MJ had a dynasty without him and started by beating the team Rodman was on while he was in his actual prime, so it wasn't like MJ "needed him". Harper was a defense only guard averaging 7PPG. Kerr was a sharpshooter. Kurkoc was a good bench player. Were the Bulls the only team in the league with the "luxury" of a shooter and a good bench player? No, they weren't. Smartly constructed? Yes. Overly stacked ala 17 GS? Lol, no.

prophet_of_rage wrote:The Bulls won 55 games with Pippen and Grant. Two All-Stars. You couldn't keep a team like that together today.

And what was that team doing after Pippen quit on them? 26-29 at the AS break, struggling to stay .500 just to go 13-4 after MJ came back to close out the season after they got the leadership and spark that they definitely needed. Grant was an All Star one time his whole life and it wasn't with MJ. MJ only had 1 All Star his whole career for only 6 seasons. That's a fact.But despite that, since when could you not keep a team with 2-3 All Stars today? Have you been living under a rock? They've been around almost every corner for the last 15 years.

Are you pretending that the Bulls the following year didn't lose Horace Grant?

And if hypothetically MJ and Co could.have matched their performance in today's era there is no basis to discount what Russell could have done had he been transported holus bolus to the 80s. You simply cannot discount Russell and his titles.

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