Time to put some RESPECK on Kobe's name...(Going back to back ain't so easy is it?)

[Doranku]

Kobe has too many haters on this board for people to give him serious credit

Your favorite player needed a superteam to go back to back. Duncan and his stacked spurs with the supposed greatest coach of all time couldn’t even do it. Kobe & Pau were definitely a problem

Someone deadass posted "Kobe got lucky in the 2010 finals that Kendrick Perkins didn't play in game 7" lmaooooooo Kendrick Perkins!!!!!

[Handlez]

After seeing the Nuggets struggle, that back to back looking mighty hard, eh?

Kobe went to back to back to back finals and won back to back titles with a good roster, but certainly not an otherworldly roster.

First finals team...

Kobe
Pau
Lamar
Sasha
Vladimir
Fisher

Those players played the most minutes and were the biggest contributors. How the hell do you beat that Boston team with THAT? Kobe's second option averaged 14.7.

Second finals team that beat Magic...

Kobe
Pau
Lamar
Arizona
Fisher

Those players played the most minutes and were the biggest contributors. Kobe's second option averaged 18.6.

Third finals team that won back to back titles...

Kobe
Pau
Lamar
Artest
Fisher
Bynum

Those players averaged the most minutes and were the biggest contributors. Kobe's second option averaged 18.6.

People will talk advanced stats or percentages or whatever, but Kobe was beyond that. The man was a stone cold killer and did anything he could to win. A lot of what he did won't show up in any stat. He did a great job of breaking down defenses with his elite post play that collapsed the defense, but wouldn't necessarily lead to any stat we can zero in on. He swung the ball out of countless double teams and eventually it'd lead to good shots that would also tire the defense as they were scrambling. And Kobe was an elite defender when it mattered. If Kobe knew he had a chance to win a title, he locked in defensively in the playoffs.

And of course, I'm not even talking about anything he did with Shaq.

Kobe most underrated of all time.

Once KG got hurt I'm 09, ending his prime, the Lakers had the best team in the league and were considered favourites both at the time and in hindsight.

You are focussed on ppg, not understanding that a) the pace was slower then, b) players don't only bring value by scoring, and c) there's only 1 ball. When you put a bunch of talented guys all on one team, some players have to sacrifice their stats, especially when playing with infamous ball hogging and shot jacker Kobe.

Pau was an an all-nba big, who had led his own team to three 50-ish win seasons in the brutal West at the same time that Kobe was struggling to lead his own team to the playoffs. The only reason the Grizzlies didn't do better was because the seeding system was broken at the time and they played in the toughest division.

Odom was an all-star calibre player, if he'd stayed on Miami he'd likely have 5 or more all-star appearances. Instead he went to a crowded LA roster and had to take a lesser role.

Artest was widely considered the best player on a contending Pacers team, or at worst the co-star. He was also a fearsome defensive player. He had to take a lesser role on the Lakers, but at 30 he was still in his prime. He was averaging 17-24 ppg for six seasons in a row before he came to LA, mostly on playoff teams or contenders, while being one of the best defenders in the league.

Bynum was seen as an up and coming all-star big, there was a reason he ended up getting a max contract. Dude was a good player.

Ariza was a top notch 3@D guy. Fisher was a solid point guard. They had other good role players too. Those were incredible teams relative to the league they were in. They could have likely won a title or two with Dominique Wilkins or Ray Allen in Kobe's place.

Pau was 0-12 in the playoffs before Kobe. Couldn't get a single win as the main guy.

Saying Odom would've been an all-star 5+ times in Miami is wild, but not worth any real discussion.

Saying they'd win titles with Wilkins or Ray Allen is also wild, but once again, not worth a real discussion.

Sounds like a lot of cope, bud.

[NCHeels2008]

He had a stacked team that no team could matchup with size wise. He lucked out with the Perkins injury in the '10 Finals. When he finally ran into a team that had size to matchup with his team's twin towers in the '11 Mavs he got swept out of the playoffs.

Those Lakers team strategy was Kobe shoots a bunch of bricks, but they have Gasol, Odom, Bynum to clean up his bricks with countless offensive rebounds. Eventually after shooting a bunch of bricks Kobe then gets hot and the Lakers win the game. Rinse and repeat from '08-'10.

Kobe's killer instinct was pretty much useless unless he had a dominate big in Shaq to cover up his bricks or a trio of all-star caliber bigs in Gasol, Bynum, Odom to clean up his bricks. I still remember Kobe shooting 8-24 in game 7 of the 2010 finals only to be bailed out by Gasol.

For a stacked team Odom, Bynum and Pau sure had a lot of success without Kobe

[NCHeels2008]

Ah yes we’ve now hit that point in time where we now pretend Kobe’s teams weren’t any good.

We're not pretending anything.

Kobe had a solid supporting cast, but it was not great for a back to back to back finals team.

Good solid roster that exceeded their talent due to Kobe's DAWG mentality.

To put it into perspective, only Hakeem had less help for a back to back championship team.

Which 2nd star would you rather have KD, Wade or Pau?

[Handlez]

Ah yes we’ve now hit that point in time where we now pretend Kobe’s teams weren’t any good.

We're not pretending anything.

Kobe had a solid supporting cast, but it was not great for a back to back to back finals team.

Good solid roster that exceeded their talent due to Kobe's DAWG mentality.

To put it into perspective, only Hakeem had less help for a back to back championship team.

Which 2nd star would you rather have KD, Wade or Pau?

KD and Wade are better than Pau, but maybe Pau fit in better with Kobe?

Obviously you take prime KD and Wade over Pau if you need a franchise level star.

Pau was a great second option, but the Lakers may beat Boston in 08 with KD or Wade.

Tough call!

[Handlez]

Keep in mind Kobe did it well past his physical prime and playing on one knee in 2010.

He was in so much pain in 2010 finals.

That knee was done.

He left everything he had on the court.

Most players wouldn't.

[Effigy]

I RESPECK him.

But obviously you know these are different circumstances lol.

I really don't. How are they different? They both won back to back titles. And both only did it once their teams got stacked and struggled before. They're different because Kobe forced his way to the Lakers on draft night, and KD signed with the Warriors?

Cool story.

Thanks. I'm always happy when I can educate young posters. Keep learning and growing, son.

[One_and_Done]

After seeing the Nuggets struggle, that back to back looking mighty hard, eh?

Kobe went to back to back to back finals and won back to back titles with a good roster, but certainly not an otherworldly roster.

First finals team...

Kobe
Pau
Lamar
Sasha
Vladimir
Fisher

Those players played the most minutes and were the biggest contributors. How the hell do you beat that Boston team with THAT? Kobe's second option averaged 14.7.

Second finals team that beat Magic...

Kobe
Pau
Lamar
Arizona
Fisher

Those players played the most minutes and were the biggest contributors. Kobe's second option averaged 18.6.

Third finals team that won back to back titles...

Kobe
Pau
Lamar
Artest
Fisher
Bynum

Those players averaged the most minutes and were the biggest contributors. Kobe's second option averaged 18.6.

People will talk advanced stats or percentages or whatever, but Kobe was beyond that. The man was a stone cold killer and did anything he could to win. A lot of what he did won't show up in any stat. He did a great job of breaking down defenses with his elite post play that collapsed the defense, but wouldn't necessarily lead to any stat we can zero in on. He swung the ball out of countless double teams and eventually it'd lead to good shots that would also tire the defense as they were scrambling. And Kobe was an elite defender when it mattered. If Kobe knew he had a chance to win a title, he locked in defensively in the playoffs.

And of course, I'm not even talking about anything he did with Shaq.

Kobe most underrated of all time.

Once KG got hurt I'm 09, ending his prime, the Lakers had the best team in the league and were considered favourites both at the time and in hindsight.

You are focussed on ppg, not understanding that a) the pace was slower then, b) players don't only bring value by scoring, and c) there's only 1 ball. When you put a bunch of talented guys all on one team, some players have to sacrifice their stats, especially when playing with infamous ball hogging and shot jacker Kobe.

Pau was an an all-nba big, who had led his own team to three 50-ish win seasons in the brutal West at the same time that Kobe was struggling to lead his own team to the playoffs. The only reason the Grizzlies didn't do better was because the seeding system was broken at the time and they played in the toughest division.

Odom was an all-star calibre player, if he'd stayed on Miami he'd likely have 5 or more all-star appearances. Instead he went to a crowded LA roster and had to take a lesser role.

Artest was widely considered the best player on a contending Pacers team, or at worst the co-star. He was also a fearsome defensive player. He had to take a lesser role on the Lakers, but at 30 he was still in his prime. He was averaging 17-24 ppg for six seasons in a row before he came to LA, mostly on playoff teams or contenders, while being one of the best defenders in the league.

Bynum was seen as an up and coming all-star big, there was a reason he ended up getting a max contract. Dude was a good player.

Ariza was a top notch 3@D guy. Fisher was a solid point guard. They had other good role players too. Those were incredible teams relative to the league they were in. They could have likely won a title or two with Dominique Wilkins or Ray Allen in Kobe's place.

Pau was 0-12 in the playoffs before Kobe. Couldn't get a single win as the main guy.

Saying Odom would've been an all-star 5+ times in Miami is wild, but not worth any real discussion.

Saying they'd win titles with Wilkins or Ray Allen is also wild, but once again, not worth a real discussion.

Sounds like a lot of cope, bud.

If Kobe was playing the teams Pau did he would have been swept too. In 05 Kobe didn't even MAKE the playoffs. But all this would prove is that Pau was worse than Kobe, not that he wasn't amazing.

Take a look at Odom's Miami stats, and then look at the all-stars in the East from 05 to 11. He'd have made plenty of teams. Miami would have been a 50 win team with him and Wade.

You grossly underrate those teams.

[Doranku]

Durant went back to back too. Does he get RESPECK?

I RESPECK him.

But obviously you know these are different circumstances lol.

I really don't. How are they different? They both won back to back titles. And both only did it once their teams got stacked and struggled before. They're different because Kobe forced his way to the Lakers on draft night, and KD signed with the Warriors?

How are they different, you ask?

KD's top 3 teammates:

2x MVP
1x DPOY
9x All-Defensive
13x All-NBA
19x All-Star

Kobe's top 3 teammates:

0x MVP
0x DPOY
0x All-Defensive
5x All-NBA
7x All-Star

Does that help illustrate the difference for you?

[Mazter]

Just two names...Phil and Derek. Kobe never made the Finals in 9 seasons without the first. And he barely made it past the first round once in 8 seasons without the second.

[Edrees]

Phil Jackson has been the coach of all the repeats and threepeats going back to 1991 except the Warriors and Rockets. (both repeated, not threepeated)

Spo repeated with the Heat as well

Kobe has too many haters on this board for people to give him serious credit

Your favorite player needed a superteam to go back to back. Duncan and his stacked spurs with the supposed greatest coach of all time couldn’t even do it. Kobe & Pau were definitely a problem

Someone deadass posted "Kobe got lucky in the 2010 finals that Kendrick Perkins didn't play in game 7" lmaooooooo Kendrick Perkins!!!!!

Anyone who actually watched that game saw that Rasheed starting gave the celtics a much better chance to win, he matched up better with Pau and Bynum and was essentially the stretch 4 that the NBA didn't quite know how to defend properly yet.

[FarBeyondDriven]

the third leg of that three-peat was rigged af. The 2010 Finals were just as bad. But yeah, it's very difficult to repeat. There's a lot of parity and it's a rigged league on top of it so to repeat you've pretty much gotta be a super team AND get help from officiating or injuries

[Sofia]

the third leg of that three-peat was rigged af. The 2010 Finals were just as bad. But yeah, it's very difficult to repeat. There's a lot of parity and it's a rigged league on top of it so to repeat you've pretty much gotta be a super team AND get help from officiating or injuries

You talking about how the Lakers took 21 FTA in the 4th quarter of game 7 2010?

[Calvin Klein]

Nobody has repeated since 2018. NOW you realize it's hard?

[ChipotleWest]

Phil Jackson has been the coach of all the repeats and threepeats going back to 1991 except the Warriors and Rockets. (both repeated, not threepeated)

Spo repeated with the Heat as well

Not sure why I blanked on that one.

[Handlez]

Just two names...Phil and Derek. Kobe never made the Finals in 9 seasons without the first. And he barely made it past the first round once in 8 seasons without the second.

Who would've known that it was Derek Fisher all along that was the wind beneath Kobe's wings.

[jokeboy86]

Kobe’s #2 was a HOFer. Again no one wins 2 or more rings w/o the #2 being a HOFer. Even Hakeem, who people like to cite as having a weak cast doesnt win that 2nd title if the Rockets dont trade to get Drexler at the break.

[bledredwine]

Kobe was a beast.

No one here wants to admit it, but he was.

[og15]

No disrespect to Kobe but i think it is harder to go back to back in this era. There is a reason nobody has gone back to back since '18 Warriors because there is more parity today. There is more parity because 3 point variance is a bigger factor in winning and who can stay the healthiest will determine who wins and not necessarily who is the best.

Health has always been a factor, that's not a new thing, even the Lakers had KG's health as a factor where we don't know what might have happened in 08-09 if KG is in the playoffs, which probably means a rematch as the Celtic would be finals favorites.

2PT jumpshot variance combined with 3PT variance would also have affected past teams.

It's hard, that's just the reality, and yes, things have to fall into place for it to happen.

[One_and_Done]

Kobe was a beast.

No one here wants to admit it, but he was.

Agreed. Definitely a top 25 all-time player.