Sick of hearing people denigrate Gobert..(He's been great defensively)

[Optms]

Disagree.

The Wolves outside of ANT are cupcakes. Nothing to do with Jokic either.

Gobert routinely becomes inept in the playoffs. Stop acting like we don't have a sample size to look back on, OP. He's basically the modern day Marcus Camby only there aren't any defensive juggernauts like 20 years ago that keep him from being awarded these DPOY. He's a joke and we all know it. Kat as well. Frauds. They better hope ANT signs that max.

[Bergmaniac]

LOL, these two cherrypicked 1:30 minute long clips definitely proved who the better defender is, I am convinced now. Let's just forget that Jokic averaged 30 PPG on 67.2 TS% in the Finals last season.

Ignoring context to protect preconceived biases and notions is fun!

Read on Twitter

So you are saying that only one on one defence matters? Jokic scored very efficiently in this series, that's the fact. There is a lot more to defence, especially for a centre, than just one on one defence. Bam is a better one on one defender than Gobert on Jokic, I am not denying this, but this doesn't prove that he is the better defender overall or that Jokic couldn't dominate against him too.

[greg4012]

One’s opinion of Gobert’s D is a great indicator of true basketball IQ.

If you don’t think Gobert’s D is among the all-time greats, you’re just not a great basketball mind.

It really is that simple and I don’t care who you are.

The fact that Jokic is the reason people are hating on Gobert right now is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW.

You can either hate on Gobert or celebrate Jokic.

To not celebrate what Jokic is doing on Gobert is immensely disrespectful to Jokic.

Jokic deserves ALL the credit.

Spoken like someone who thinks regular season and playoff basketball are the same thing

Greg, anyone who thinks in absolutes like this is not a great basketball mind:

Gobert is not going to beat any allegations in the 1st round of the playoffs. Get past the 2nd round for the first time in his career and the discussion can begin

And you’re speaking like someone who doesn’t understand that correlation is not causation.

Gobert had essentially zero defensive help in Utah. Are littles playing Gobert off the floor in Minnesota? Nope. Not during the season and not during the playoffs.

Now he’s running into all-time great big Jokic. That’s not a ding on Gobert.

You fell for the easy trap of ignoring context.

And I think you’re proving my point, so thank you.

EDIT: I see you're a Heat fan. You must be elated that Gobert isn't stopping Joker either. No homer bias there, I'm sure.

You are trying so hard to create false equivalencies and parallels while labeling everything as a logical fallacy. All the while your entire commenting style is basically just a collection of logical fallacies aimed at attacking and denigrating anything but the substantive matter. I think you've spent too much time on the internet.

When Gobert has an advanced playoff series that he's not being targeted for his weaknesses and signifciantly less impactful than his regular season defense then I will be convinced. Until then, all I'm seeing is the most consistent track record of Gobert losing efficacy in playoff ball over an 11 season career. You can explain away anecdotes all you want. But, the basketball on the floor is revealing what's happening. HAve you seen Gobert when he's pulled into pick and roll actions run by Gordon? Minced meat.

[thinktank]

LOL, these two cherrypicked 1:30 minute long clips definitely proved who the better defender is, I am convinced now. Let's just forget that Jokic averaged 30 PPG on 67.2 TS% in the Finals last season.

Ignoring context to protect preconceived biases and notions is fun!

Read on Twitter

So you are saying that only one on one defence matters? Jokic scored very efficiently in this series, that's the fact. There is a lot more to defence, especially for a centre, than just one on one defence. Bam is a better one on one defender than Gobert on Jokic, I am not denying this, but this doesn't prove that he is the better defender overall or that Jokic couldn't dominate against him too.

That's a really small sample size.

If Adebayo was that good on Jokic, why isn't the sample size larger? Why not have Adebayo shut down Jokic and win the chip? Hmmmm? Spo knows.

Context is everything with statistics.

[greg4012]

LOL, these two cherrypicked 1:30 minute long clips definitely proved who the better defender is, I am convinced now. Let's just forget that Jokic averaged 30 PPG on 67.2 TS% in the Finals last season.

Ignoring context to protect preconceived biases and notions is fun!

Read on Twitter

So you are saying that only one on one defence matters? Jokic scored very efficiently in this series, that's the fact. There is a lot more to defence, especially for a centre, than just one on one defence. Bam is a better one on one defender than Gobert on Jokic, I am not denying this, but this doesn't prove that he is the better defender overall or that Jokic couldn't dominate against him too.

Where did I say that?

I will say that Gobert isn't as good of a 1-on-1 defender as his reputation would have you believe. I will say that in playoff basketball against top contenders, Gobert ALWAYS seems to end up being targeted in on-ball action and pulled out into space where he often gives up advantage. I will say that I see a clear trend as to how high level playoff bball (real contenders) and Gobert don't seem to get along too well.

[greg4012]

Ignoring context to protect preconceived biases and notions is fun!

Read on Twitter

So you are saying that only one on one defence matters? Jokic scored very efficiently in this series, that's the fact. There is a lot more to defence, especially for a centre, than just one on one defence. Bam is a better one on one defender than Gobert on Jokic, I am not denying this, but this doesn't prove that he is the better defender overall or that Jokic couldn't dominate against him too.

That's a really small sample size.

If Adebayo was that good on Jokic, why isn't the sample size larger? Why not have Adebayo shut down Jokic and win the chip? Hmmmm? Spo knows.

Context is everything with statistics.

And context pretty clearly reveals that (1) not every time Bam is covering Jokic will qualify as an "isolation" or "post-up" according to tracking data--have you seen Jokic play? have you seen how team defense functions in the NBA?
(2) Miami had size disadvantage across the board with 6'5 205 pound Caleb Martin as Bam's frontcourt mate. Bam simply needed to be covering for others, as well. That's not really the case with Gobert being flanked by Jaden McDaniels, Naz Reid, Towns, and a defensive back court. If Bam had that, the playoff defense would go to another stratosphere

[thinktank]

Ignoring context to protect preconceived biases and notions is fun!

Read on Twitter

So you are saying that only one on one defence matters? Jokic scored very efficiently in this series, that's the fact. There is a lot more to defence, especially for a centre, than just one on one defence. Bam is a better one on one defender than Gobert on Jokic, I am not denying this, but this doesn't prove that he is the better defender overall or that Jokic couldn't dominate against him too.

Where did I say that?

I will say that Gobert isn't as good of a 1-on-1 defender as his reputation would have you believe. I will say that in playoff basketball against top contenders, Gobert ALWAYS seems to end up being targeted in on-ball action and pulled out into space where he often gives up advantage. I will say that I see a clear trend as to how high level playoff bball (real contenders) and Gobert don't seem to get along too well.

You're so right. When Rudy gets pulled into space backed by Mitchell, Clarkson, Bogdanovic, Conley, Ingles, Favors, and O'Neale, he gets fried. I just don't understand why Gobert is bad in space.

Similarly, when all-time great and unstoppable Jokic pulls Rudy into space, it also doesn't work well. I just don't get it and I'm a great basketball mind!!!

Even Phoenix killed Rudy in space!

Rudy so bad in space!

SPAAAAAACCCEEEE!!!!

[thinktank]

So you are saying that only one on one defence matters? Jokic scored very efficiently in this series, that's the fact. There is a lot more to defence, especially for a centre, than just one on one defence. Bam is a better one on one defender than Gobert on Jokic, I am not denying this, but this doesn't prove that he is the better defender overall or that Jokic couldn't dominate against him too.

That's a really small sample size.

If Adebayo was that good on Jokic, why isn't the sample size larger? Why not have Adebayo shut down Jokic and win the chip? Hmmmm? Spo knows.

Context is everything with statistics.

And context pretty clearly reveals that (1) not every time Bam is covering Jokic will qualify as an "isolation" or "post-up" according to tracking data--have you seen Jokic play? have you seen how team defense functions in the NBA?
(2) Miami had size disadvantage across the board with 6'5 205 pound Caleb Martin as Bam's frontcourt mate. Bam simply needed to be covering for others, as well. That's not really the case with Gobert being flanked by Jaden McDaniels, Naz Reid, Towns, and a defensive back court. If Bam had that, the playoff defense would go to another stratosphere

This guy thinks Bam is a better defender than Gobert. I knew it.



It's funny how you think defensive backcourt mates matter to Adebayo but not to Rudy when on the Jazz. Can't have it both ways.

[Letsgokings]

The nba is such trash. Superstars like jokic are so unlikable and unsatisfying to watch. I'd rather watch paint dry

[greg4012]

So you are saying that only one on one defence matters? Jokic scored very efficiently in this series, that's the fact. There is a lot more to defence, especially for a centre, than just one on one defence. Bam is a better one on one defender than Gobert on Jokic, I am not denying this, but this doesn't prove that he is the better defender overall or that Jokic couldn't dominate against him too.

Where did I say that?

I will say that Gobert isn't as good of a 1-on-1 defender as his reputation would have you believe. I will say that in playoff basketball against top contenders, Gobert ALWAYS seems to end up being targeted in on-ball action and pulled out into space where he often gives up advantage. I will say that I see a clear trend as to how high level playoff bball (real contenders) and Gobert don't seem to get along too well.

You're so right. When Rudy gets pulled into space backed by Mitchell, Clarkson, Bogdanovic, Conley, Ingles, Favors, and O'Neale, he gets fried. I just don't understand why Gobert is bad in space.

Similarly, when all-time great and unstoppable Jokic pulls Rudy into space, it also doesn't work well. I just don't get it and I'm a great basketball mind!!!

Even Phoenix killed Rudy in space!

Rudy so bad in space!

SPAAAAAACCCEEEE!!!!

Here we are again--with anything BUT a response to actual basketball analysis.

[thinktank]

Where did I say that?

I will say that Gobert isn't as good of a 1-on-1 defender as his reputation would have you believe. I will say that in playoff basketball against top contenders, Gobert ALWAYS seems to end up being targeted in on-ball action and pulled out into space where he often gives up advantage. I will say that I see a clear trend as to how high level playoff bball (real contenders) and Gobert don't seem to get along too well.

You're so right. When Rudy gets pulled into space backed by Mitchell, Clarkson, Bogdanovic, Conley, Ingles, Favors, and O'Neale, he gets fried. I just don't understand why Gobert is bad in space.

Similarly, when all-time great and unstoppable Jokic pulls Rudy into space, it also doesn't work well. I just don't get it and I'm a great basketball mind!!!

Even Phoenix killed Rudy in space!

Rudy so bad in space!

SPAAAAAACCCEEEE!!!!

Here we are again--with anything BUT a response to actual basketball analysis.

Thus proving again that you complete ignore the importance of context in your analysis.

[greg4012]

That's a really small sample size.

If Adebayo was that good on Jokic, why isn't the sample size larger? Why not have Adebayo shut down Jokic and win the chip? Hmmmm? Spo knows.

Context is everything with statistics.

And context pretty clearly reveals that (1) not every time Bam is covering Jokic will qualify as an "isolation" or "post-up" according to tracking data--have you seen Jokic play? have you seen how team defense functions in the NBA?
(2) Miami had size disadvantage across the board with 6'5 205 pound Caleb Martin as Bam's frontcourt mate. Bam simply needed to be covering for others, as well. That's not really the case with Gobert being flanked by Jaden McDaniels, Naz Reid, Towns, and a defensive back court. If Bam had that, the playoff defense would go to another stratosphere

This guy thinks Bam is a better defender than Gobert. I knew it.



It's funny how you think defensive backcourt mates matter to Adebayo but not to Rudy when on the Jazz. Can't have it both ways.

Royce O'Neale would've been a blessing on the Heat last year. to give Bam some defensive help. And where did I ever indicate that teammates don't matter? I don't know if you noticed, but we're talking about Bam in the FINALS still holding Denver to their lowest ORTG of that playoff run with a deficient roster. He's been there a couple times (and to 4 ECFs).

I know Bam is a better defender than Gobert for playoff basketball. I also know he was more impactful overall this season:

Read on Twitter

[greg4012]

You're so right. When Rudy gets pulled into space backed by Mitchell, Clarkson, Bogdanovic, Conley, Ingles, Favors, and O'Neale, he gets fried. I just don't understand why Gobert is bad in space.

Similarly, when all-time great and unstoppable Jokic pulls Rudy into space, it also doesn't work well. I just don't get it and I'm a great basketball mind!!!

Even Phoenix killed Rudy in space!

Rudy so bad in space!

SPAAAAAACCCEEEE!!!!

Here we are again--with anything BUT a response to actual basketball analysis.

Thus proving again that you complete ignore the importance of context in your analysis.

You're embarrassing yourself

[DimesandKnicks]

One’s opinion of Gobert’s D is a great indicator of true basketball IQ.

If you don’t think Gobert’s D is among the all-time greats, you’re just not a great basketball mind.

It really is that simple and I don’t care who you are.

The fact that Jokic is the reason people are hating on Gobert right now is ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW.

You can either hate on Gobert or celebrate Jokic.

To not celebrate what Jokic is doing on Gobert is immensely disrespectful to Jokic.

Jokic deserves ALL the credit.

A lot of people felt this way when he was unplayable in a series in Utah, I can’t remember which one

[DimesandKnicks]

I don’t think there’s ever been another acclaimed defender who’s been unplayable in multiple playoff series. If there are any examples I’m all ears. It’s giving big fat phony

Watch on YouTube

When has Gobert been unplayable this year?

Now. I think the Wolves would be better off starting Reid or Kat at C forcing Jokic to have to defend a good offensive big or close out on a three point shooter.

[thinktank]

Here we are again--with anything BUT a response to actual basketball analysis.

Thus proving again that you complete ignore the importance of context in your analysis.

You're embarrassing yourself

A stat tells you people choose apples over oranges 99% of the time.

You conclude, people love apples!

I show you that the oranges are sitting in a tub of **** while the apples are sitting on a table.

You conclude, no, people just love apples!

That’s the type of thinking you’re doing when you ignore statistical context.


You’re a Heat fan. You think Adebayo should have the DPOYs Gobert does. Few others do. There’s some more context for you.

[G35]

I have been trying to figure what makes Jokic so unstoppable. And I think it is that Jokic does three things that I don't think I have ever seen in a player. He can finish with a baby left hook with either hand, he can shoot off either foot, and he doesn't appear to have any predictable tendencies when he goes to make his release. This last point is really important. If you watch him play, he doesn't target the basket with his eyes until very late in his move. It's almost like his shot is a kind of no-look pass that just happens to go in, and this kind of also explains why he is such great passer looking off his target. His playstyle is so unorthodox, I don't think he can be defended. Defenders cannot time his shot. He's a weird combination of Charles Barkley, Kevin McHale, and Magic Johnson. The NBA has never seen a player that really moves like Jokic. He's got the efficiency of Barkley, the length and post moves of McHale, and he has the court vision and feel of Magic. I am not sure there is anything Gobert can do in this situation.

Agreed on all points. Imo, Jokic is the prime example of why Larry Bird could dominate in this era without having god-tier physical talent. Knowing how to use angles, being able to use your left or right hand on the move, being willing and able to pass the ball in space can make up for not being able to jump out the gym. I like the McHale comparison because of the footwork Joker has and being able to finish unorthodox moves.

I like that Joker doesn't get too high or too low and he is willing to take over offensively when his team needs him to give them a shot of confidence. Very similar to Duncan who would take over offensively for the Spurs when the rest of the team was struggling. Joker is a lot more skilled imo around the rim, a better shooter than Duncan but similar mindset/approach. Joker has brought back my enjoyment of the game because he doesn't depend on one thing to make him effective and he is bringing a team approach to the game.

The Nuggets have so many weapons but that is because Joker is the anti-Lebron, he subtly lets everyone else contribute. I wouldn't say any of the other Nuggets are that much more talented than the other rosters if at all, but I don't think they would be as good if they were playing on another team. This is also a testament to Coach Malone who has the whole team buying in...this is the difference between coaching Joker and having to coach another talented big man in Demarcus Cousins. It is night and day in the results.....

[F Saunders]

I don’t think there’s ever been another acclaimed defender who’s been unplayable in multiple playoff series. If there are any examples I’m all ears. It’s giving big fat phony

Watch on YouTube

Pretty crazy how unplayable Rudy is, considering the Wolves have outscored the Nuggets this series when Rudy has been on the court.

[thinktank]

I don’t think there’s ever been another acclaimed defender who’s been unplayable in multiple playoff series. If there are any examples I’m all ears. It’s giving big fat phony

Watch on YouTube

Pretty crazy how unplayable Rudy is, considering the Wolves have outscored the Nuggets this series when Rudy has been on the court.

Wolves have done a good job forcing twos instead of threes.

The real problem is:

Wolves can’t get their offense going.

[DimesandKnicks]

I don’t think there’s ever been another acclaimed defender who’s been unplayable in multiple playoff series. If there are any examples I’m all ears. It’s giving big fat phony

Watch on YouTube

Pretty crazy how unplayable Rudy is, considering the Wolves have outscored the Nuggets this series when Rudy has been on the court.

Irregardless, he’s getting cooked on one end of the floor and allowing Jokic to hide on the other end.