Was the Bucks-Sixers 2001 ECF series also rigged?

[JustOneFix]

What a nonsense this thread is. It's really funny.

Ray Ray should be called the Truth,
he was right about Kobe, and right about this.

I have absouletly no idea what that has to do with "fixing of the games". What Ray said is just common sense. Yes, AI vs Kobe & Shaq = more $$ then Bucks vs Lakers. How the hell that could be consider as a proof? Ok, if it is, are we gonna forbid any possible finals matchups that would lead into higher % of the ratings?

What Ray Allen said has absoultely no weight and it can't be use as a evidence in any strech of imagination.

Oh, i get it. Celtics and Lakers is also rigged cause the legaue wanted this finals. Nevermind both teams were clearly the best teams through out of this year's playoffs.

Also during that game Scott Williams has a foul that was called a normal foul during the game. Then after the game the foul gets upgraded to a flagrant which ment Williams was suspended for game 7.

Really? Intentional elbow in the throat of a player while in full speed is not a flagrant foul?

http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=kayoLtEzf4o (it's right at the begining)

If you dont' consider this a flagrant foul i suggest you switch to hockey.

The foul differential in the Bucks/Sixers series was pretty mindblowing,

Not so mindblowing considering the fact that the Bucks were one of the best jump shooting teams that year (if not the best) and majority of their offense went that way.

On the other hand, Sixers were a complete opposite with 2 of their main guys (Iverson and Mutombo) doing the damage inside the paint.

It's pretty simple, Sixers were attacking the paint, Bucks did not.

Allen Iverson was treated like a GOD in that series.

Please name one other superstar that is not?

Are you sayin MJ push on Russel was not a offensive foul?

There's no question the Bucks would have and should have won that series against Philly. If the NBA truly does rig games, then it better be ready because what goes around (usually) comes around....

If you were such better team than the Sixers how come you barely beat them in game 3, WITHOUT Iverson?



People like to belive to anything but bottom line is: Sixers beat them fair and square. They were a better defensive team, had better coach (Larry Brown) and 2 players Bucks had no idea how to stop (AI and Mutombo). This thread is a joke.

[Walt Cronkite]

But didn't you see the video?

STERN TOUCHED MOTOMBO'S HAND!!

[crkone]

@ people saying that was an intentional elbow to the throat. He as sliding over and Iverson ran into him. Why don't you girls grab your purses before you leave this thread?

[BobbyLight]

Now that I watch this again I don't know how any reasonable NBA fan could call that a flagrant. Iverson threw himself into Williams. Also, you always gotta use the line "This is playoff basketball". The definition of flagrant is intentional, to cause harm. Williams slid over while Iverson ran into him like a kamakazi pilot. It was not intentional on Williams, and he didn't cause harm. Iverson got up right away.

[BobbyLight]

From the Bucks board:

Did't want to put this in the 2002 playoffs are fixed thread as it deserves it's own thread.

Steve Czaban (I belive he's known in Milw for being on the bob and bryan show), lead Host of the First Team on Fox's national daily radio show in the morning claiimed there was a bigger fix than the Kings/Lakers fix. In my head I'm thinking, 2001 ECF, but there's no way that's what he's talking about.

He goes on to say, the Bucks/Sixers 2001 ECF was a huge fix. Goes on to point to all the stats.

48 more personal fouls called on Bucks during the series

11 technicals for Bucks, 2 technicals for Sixers

5 flagrant fouls on Bucks, none on Sixers

Scott Williams getting removed from game 7 for questionable flagrant fould call

Bucks shot only 3 free throws in one of the games

Dikembe Mutombo, who avearaged something like 6 free throws/game through six games got 19 free throws in game 7

Philly 6th biggest tv market, bucks 30th (or 39th)

And for those saying the Bucks were jumshooters only, obviously have forgotten a lot of 7 years. Glenn Robinson was primarly a mid-range post player, he always had a lot of contact drawn. And have you seen Ray Allen play? The man is (still) on of the best at mixing up jumpshooting and going to the hoop.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

It was also the way the NBA handled it. I got this from a Milwaukee reporter who was close to Grunfeld.
The NBA called Ernie Grunfeld to tell him that he was suspended and Ernie asked if they could talk about it or an explanation for the upgrade of the foul. I cant remember who was incharge of discipline at the time, but he responded by saying there will be no further discussion about this.

I was also in the locker room with Jason Hart this year and even he still was adamant that the Bucks were screwed.

[WEFFPIM]

What I love in this thread is the people so adamantly dismissing this. Now, I'm not saying I think the series was rigged at all. But what has the NBA proven to you nay-sayers so far that makes you think that this isn't even legitimately possible?

As far as I'm concerned now, any game, any series, any team can come under question and I wouldn't be surprised in the least. Amongst all the playoff series that have been played in the last decade, this one is one of those that stands out in terms of the officiating. With the Lakers-Kings stuff coming out now, I don't see how anyone can say that another playoff series being rigged just isn't possible.

We can discuss the Mavericks-Heat series if you'd like as well.

[Walt Cronkite]

Then you've been watching too much Lost.

[Don Draper]

What a nonsense this thread is. It's really funny.

Ray Ray should be called the Truth,
he was right about Kobe, and right about this.

I have absouletly no idea what that has to do with "fixing of the games". What Ray said is just common sense. Yes, AI vs Kobe & Shaq = more $$ then Bucks vs Lakers. How the hell that could be consider as a proof? Ok, if it is, are we gonna forbid any possible finals matchups that would lead into higher % of the ratings?

What Ray Allen said has absoultely no weight and it can't be use as a evidence in any strech of imagination.

Oh, i get it. Celtics and Lakers is also rigged cause the legaue wanted this finals. Nevermind both teams were clearly the best teams through out of this year's playoffs.

Also during that game Scott Williams has a foul that was called a normal foul during the game. Then after the game the foul gets upgraded to a flagrant which ment Williams was suspended for game 7.

Really? Intentional elbow in the throat of a player while in full speed is not a flagrant foul?

http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=kayoLtEzf4o (it's right at the begining)

If you dont' consider this a flagrant foul i suggest you switch to hockey.

The foul differential in the Bucks/Sixers series was pretty mindblowing,

Not so mindblowing considering the fact that the Bucks were one of the best jump shooting teams that year (if not the best) and majority of their offense went that way.

On the other hand, Sixers were a complete opposite with 2 of their main guys (Iverson and Mutombo) doing the damage inside the paint.

It's pretty simple, Sixers were attacking the paint, Bucks did not.

Allen Iverson was treated like a GOD in that series.

Please name one other superstar that is not?

Are you sayin MJ push on Russel was not a offensive foul?

There's no question the Bucks would have and should have won that series against Philly. If the NBA truly does rig games, then it better be ready because what goes around (usually) comes around....

If you were such better team than the Sixers how come you barely beat them in game 3, WITHOUT Iverson?



People like to belive to anything but bottom line is: Sixers beat them fair and square. They were a better defensive team, had better coach (Larry Brown) and 2 players Bucks had no idea how to stop (AI and Mutombo). This thread is a joke.

You a) didn't watch the series or b) are a Sixers fan. That series was more BS than the Rockets series. You have to blind to realize the refs at the very least called a horrible series.

[VinnyTheMick]

Stern probably is waiting for the Knicks to get a decent management back, before handing them benefits... so it doesnt look too obvious.

I mean An Isaiah ran and coached team dominating, especially with that lineup he created... well its too obvious..

maybe next year... or maybe when the "next" LeBron or MJ or Kobe is projected.. Knicks will suddenly win No.1 or Philly... wouldnt be surprised.

Um, could have sworn Isiah was removed from the President of Basketball Operations position & replaced by Donnie Walsh. Then Isiah was removed from the head coaching position & replaced by Mike D'Antoni. He now is a scout.

Is this not "decent" management?

[drew881]

If Stern is cheating, what makes it work is the fans who dismiss it so easily, like so many are doing in this thread, because A)They never watched the series, B) don't care because its happening to a small market team, or C) dont care because its not happening to their team.

Btw, the Glenn Robinson youtube video is classic when he starts breaking out the math and going through the percentages in the press conferences to explain how he should get his avg.

I like the idea that PTI had on how to prevent bad/rogue officiating. Put them in the spotlight for interviews after the games. It would be very interesting to watch on TV, and if refs are getting paid healthily, they are public figures just like the players and should be accountable on TV.

Also, do what Bud Selig did. Have an outside investigation. I think the joke they made was that Arlem Specter would be all over this if the sixers lost. Too bad Herb Kohl owns the Bucks, and therefore can't say anything or move towards congressional hearings on betting, fixing (because this is just as important as steroids, even moreso than the lame spygate flop)

Or I also like Phil Jackson's recent comments. Make the officiating a separate entity from the NBA.

[InsideOut]

I don't know what if anything is fixed in the NBA. However, I do notice when you look back at these questionable games or trades it looks as if the big market team or the team with the superstar are the ones that always benefit. None of these game conspiracy theories have a Milwaukee, Indiana...be gifted a player or getting away with murder against an LA, Boston or Philly? Seriously, find me a big series where all the calls seemed to go against LA, Boston, NY...

[Wilford Brimley]

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=798319

smooth 'lil balla

Steve Czaban (I belive he's known in Milw for being on the bob and bryan show), lead Host of the First Team on Fox's national daily radio show in the morning claiimed there was a bigger fix than the Kings/Lakers fix. In my head I'm thinking, 2001 ECF, but there's no way that's what he's talking about.

He goes on to say, the Bucks/Sixers 2001 ECF was a huge fix. Goes on to point to all the stats.

48 more personal fouls called on Bucks during the series

11 technicals for Bucks, 2 technicals for Sixers

5 flagrant fouls on Bucks, none on Sixers

Scott Williams getting removed from game 7 for questionable flagrant fould call

Bucks shot only 3 free throws in one of the games

Dikembe Mutombo, who avearaged something like 6 free throws/game through six games got 19 free throws in game 7

Philly 6th biggest tv market, bucks 30th (or 39th)

[Don Draper]

If Stern is cheating, what makes it work is the fans who dismiss it so easily, like so many are doing in this thread, because A)They never watched the series, B) don't care because its happening to a small market team, or C) dont care because its not happening to their team.

Btw, the Glenn Robinson youtube video is classic when he starts breaking out the math and going through the percentages in the press conferences to explain how he should get his avg.

I like the idea that PTI had on how to prevent bad/rogue officiating. Put them in the spotlight for interviews after the games. It would be very interesting to watch on TV, and if refs are getting paid healthily, they are public figures just like the players and should be accountable on TV.

Also, do what Bud Selig did. Have an outside investigation. I think the joke they made was that Arlem Specter would be all over this if the sixers lost. Too bad Herb Kohl owns the Bucks, and therefore can't say anything or move towards congressional hearings on betting, fixing (because this is just as important as steroids, even moreso than the lame spygate flop)

Or I also like Phil Jackson's recent comments. Make the officiating a separate entity from the NBA.

It's called denial. There is a chance (although slim) that Stern doesn't know this is going on, but someone has to admit something is wrong. That is what I call a "preponderance of coincidence".

[Walt Cronkite]

If there are more rogue referees like Donaghy, then I think it's worth discussing each suspect series. At this point, only Donaghy has stated such and he's not very credible. An independent firm called the FBI has been on the case, so that's leading me to believe this isn't a Stern coverup.

Obviously the league benefits from high television ratings because it generates ad revenue, but then why would the NBA want SAS to advance over Dallas and Phoenix, the 5th and 12th largest media markets (San Antonio has a huge population but is the 37th largest market.)

Why hasn't Washington been able to get past Cleveland? Are the Wizards inept or less injury prone where the 02 76ers were not?

[Don Draper]

If there are more rogue referees like Donaghy, then I think it's worth discussing each suspect series. At this point, only Donaghy has stated such and he's not very credible. An independent firm called the FBI has been on the case, so that's leading me to believe this isn't a Stern coverup.

Obviously the league benefits from high television ratings because it generates ad revenue, but then why would the NBA want SAS to advance over Dallas and Phoenix, the 5th and 12th largest media markets (San Antonio has a huge population but is the 37th largest market.)

Why hasn't Washington been able to get past Cleveland? Are the Wizards inept or less injury prone where the 02 76ers were not?

If the NBA rigged every game don't you think it would be easier to find out? He never said EVERY series was rigged. He never insinuated that it was systematic. I think you guys who are automatically dismissing it as false are just in denial that something like this could happen in the NBA. You are right, it may not be true. But with all the fishy outcomes, and they way Stern has fought tooth and nail to protect the refs, I think it is very suspicious. The Mark Cuban story is especially disturbing because if an owner can make a call to sway the refs one way, then think what the commissioner can do...

[th87]

Um, because of that one superstar guy that plays for the Cavs?

Wiz fans would love to tell you about certain missed calls in that series too.

Just because some series' may have been fixed doesn't mean they ALL are fixed. Stern may just pick his battles.

[BobbyLight]

If Stern did fix anything, he would be an absolute moron to fix everything. One thing Stern is not is stupid. We are talking about an intelligent person here. If this was all true, Sten would have to pick his spots and then in the other cases let the chips fall where the may. That way when stuff like this comes up he can say "The Spurs won 4 titles, why would I fix that?".

[WEFFPIM]

Then you've been watching too much Lost.

Right, that's it.

[IggyTheBEaST]

HaHa NO!


I was AT these games. I saw the games first hand. The Sixers outplayed the Bucks. End of story.