I changed my mind, the Gobert trade was a win-win for both teams

[Baseline81]

Utah also had two bigs with Gobert and Favors,then had Bojan,Ingles,Korver and Clarkson as scoring options next to Mitchel,Gobert and Conley in next iterations.

You're putting Favors in the same boat as Towns. Okay then...

Is this supposed to be one of those memes of Tobey Maguire with his glasses on vs. off?

[Showdown]

Utah also had two bigs with Gobert and Favors,then had Bojan,Ingles,Korver and Clarkson as scoring options next to Mitchel,Gobert and Conley in next iterations.

You're putting Favors in the same boat as Towns. Okay then...

Is this supposed to be one of those memes of Tobey Maguire with his glasses on vs. off?

No I'm saying that they had same amount of scoring,playmaking,team defense, size and wings as Minnesota now.Utah also had great runs in RS but were below contender level in PO and had to go into rebuild.

[phanman]

I think the people classifying as it a win-win are putting too much stock into the current teams success. It is okay to admit that the
Gobert fit was what Tim Connelly envisioned and also see how much of a massive overpay it was for Rudy Gobert.

2020 #23 - Leandro Bolmaro
2022 #22 - Walker Kessler
4 picks + 1 swap

I thought they definitely jumped the gun on the heels of a successful 2020 season where they made it back to the post season. Especially given how Walker played in his rookie season and how much Reid has improved since then. Walker is just a good as a rim deterrent and given all those assets back, they wouldn't be in this financial crunch they are in now with options to improve as Ant continues to develop.

I think they could have mimic'd a similar level of performance with Walker in place of Gobert currently but then again that completely discounts how much of an impact Rudy has had on both Jaden, Ant and KAT on the defensive end.

[shrink]

Add in the fact that they are going to have cap difficulties. Tax difficulties. Add in the likelyhood that Ant starts thinking about being a Laker or Heat before long. And you have a situation that is likely to yield high picks in the future.

Throw in top of all that, the issue with Gobert isn't regular season play. It's playoff play. He plays like a top 20 guy in the regular season, but when teams have time to game plan against him his impact drops precipitously down to a top100 or lower player.

MIN will definitely be expensive next year, but the owners will likely use the Wolves success to ask for some public funding on a much-needed new arena. Spending tens of millions now in payroll can save hundreds of millions with a new arena, and boost the value of the franchise.

And we don’t know if any player is going to demand a trade, but it’s hard to find a player in the NBA that seems happier than Anthony Edwards. And I think the chance of him wanting to walk increases dramatically if the team wasn’t winning.

Finally, I understand when some other fans mistakenly scapegoat Gobert for Utah’s lack of success in the playoffs, but I’m surprised to hear it from a Jazz fan. The Wolves defense is not a fluke, and they have been doing all this mostly without Jaden McDaniels. Jazz opponents would continually beat Gobert’s teammates at the perimeter - but with the Wolves, Rudy has better defenders all over the line up. If a simple plan to defeat Gobert was exposed in he playoffs, you’d see current coaches using it now.

I have been a longtime fan of both MIN and UTA, and I think this trade has turned out to be a win for both teams.

[shrink]

It hurts my eyes when I see people say, “Kessler is basically Gobert” or “Favors is basically Towns.”

Come on guys, what are we doing here?

[Rauxcee]

Utah also had two bigs with Gobert and Favors,then had Bojan,Ingles,Korver and Clarkson as scoring options next to Mitchel,Gobert and Conley in next iterations.

You're putting Favors in the same boat as Towns. Okay then...

Is this supposed to be one of those memes of Tobey Maguire with his glasses on vs. off?

No I'm saying that they had same amount of scoring,playmaking,team defense, size and wings as Minnesota now.Utah also had great runs in RS but were below contender level in PO and had to go into rebuild.

No we did not. We had a good defensive team with no ability to score for a couple years, then we traded defense for offense and did not have the ability to defend. We never had anything comparable to KAT, and nothing comparable to ANT (in terms of length and defense) or Jaden. This current wolves team is better than any of the Jazz playoff teams in the Rudy/Mitchell era.

Anyone saying otherwise either didn't watch the Jazz or isn't currently watching the Wolves.

[AbeVigodaLive]

Both may have gotten (substantially) better, but the haul Minny gave up for Gobert is only going to look rosy or worth it unless they win the chip or at least get to the conference finals. Then, and only then, will it get close to being a "win-win." And even then, gonna be a lotta fools who bring up the fact that their luxury tax/ cap limits are going to force their hands anyway.

So a trade is only deemed a success if they do something done only once in 34 previous seasons?

As a counter to that are we supposed to be grading the trade on a Minnesota curve because the Timberwolves have been terrible for 34 years? Would T-wolves fans really be satisfied with the trade and the era if this team topped out at a conference finals appearance?

Just asking, don't let low expectations prevent you from having high standards.

IMO Minny still gave up way too much for Gobert(why? who were they bidding against?)but it wasn't a catastrophic trade and the team's future is quite bright if they can sort out the upcoming cap issues.

Yes.

I see you're a Warriors fan. And that fanbase also went through some tough times for quite a spell. But no NBA franchise has ever been as bad as the Minnesota Timberwolves. They are the worst regular season team... and worst postseason team... in history.

So while it's convenient to chant "championship or bust," especially when your favorite team has won several of them, it's important to reiterate that the Timberwolves were deemed the best team in its conference for all of 10 days in 34 seasons. Conversely, the team was the worst team in the entire NBA for hundreds of days.

For right now... yes... the expectations are lower than other franchises. Simply put, not all franchises are created equal. I've been around since the day Rick Mahorn refused to play for the Timberwolves (before they even played a game). And the current run is pretty damn cool.




[Note: Do I wish Connelly sent Utah less in a non-bidding war situation? Yep. Do I wish the future of the salary cap and arena situation looked better? Yep. But for right now... I'm enjoying the ride. It's a different sort of a feeling as a Wolves fan.]

[shrink]

If you’re a fan of a team, your goal is “championship.” And while that’s also a goal of an owner, they have other goals, like profitability and the value of their asset.

We don’t know how the Gobert trade will impact a championship yet. But one thing we have seen was a massive spike in the valuation of the franchise. While the average NBA franchise also took a 35% leap in value last season, the Timberwolves jumped 73%, second only to the Thunder! And remember, the new owners ARod and Lore bought their first chunk based on the lower number. Finally, Wolves attendance has been 100%.

The Gobert trade isn’t responsible for all of this of course, but he certainly has played a part in the Wolves winning, the change in culture, and the different perception that people in Minnesota and all of you have on the Timberwolves franchise. That has value.

[Capn'O]

Minny has built a nice team. Gobert trade could have easily been a disaster if they didn't make excellent follow ups. So far, the Conley/NAW for Russell trade looks like such a follow up. They now have a defensive identity that defines them.

[Klomp]

Minny has built a nice team. Gobert trade could have easily been a disaster if they didn't make excellent follow ups. So far, the Conley/NAW for Russell trade looks like such a follow up. They now have a defensive identity that defines them.

Don't forget about the three 2nds they got in that Conley/DLo trade too (one of which was used to trade up to get rookie Leonard Miller).

[Warriorfan]

Gobert 8 yrs older then Kessler and makes 38 million more for an additional 4pts 4rb

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kesslwa01.html

You cannot be taken seriously by comparing box scores when it comes to Gobert

Teams will actively avoid going anywhere near him which, obviously, cuts down on his box score stats.

I'm sure that warrior fan would accept that Lebron is far superior to Curry based on thr massive gap in box score stats

It's not just Kessler vs Gobert it's Gobert vs the picks and other players.

[nikster]

You cannot be taken seriously by comparing box scores when it comes to Gobert

Teams will actively avoid going anywhere near him which, obviously, cuts down on his box score stats.

I'm sure that warrior fan would accept that Lebron is far superior to Curry based on thr massive gap in box score stats

It's not just Kessler vs Gobert it's Gobert vs the picks and other players.

Okay so you admitted your 4pts/4rebounds comment was meaningless?

[Warriorfan]

I'm sure that warrior fan would accept that Lebron is far superior to Curry based on thr massive gap in box score stats

It's not just Kessler vs Gobert it's Gobert vs the picks and other players.

Okay so you admitted your 4pts/4rebounds comment was meaningless?

No not on a cost analysis basis

I'll add
Couple more losses by Min last year they could have given up the lottery pick that ended up to be Wemby.

Feel free to post a prediction where Min is leading conference

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10072462-re-grading-rudy-gobert-trade-ahead-of-minnesota-timberwolves-2023-nba-playoffs.amp.html

[nikster]

It's not just Kessler vs Gobert it's Gobert vs the picks and other players.

Okay so you admitted your 4pts/4rebounds comment was meaningless?

No not on a cost analysis basis

I'll add
Couple more losses by Min last year they could have given up the lottery pick that ended up to be Wemby.

Feel free to post a prediction where Min is leading conference

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10072462-re-grading-rudy-gobert-trade-ahead-of-minnesota-timberwolves-2023-nba-playoffs.amp.html

Yeah the trade would have looked a lot worse if the 16th pick ended up the first overall no ****

You can't use raw box score stats for cost analysis unless you think box scores effectively capture impact...and as a Curry fan I'm guessing that's not the case

[jazzfan1971]

Add in the fact that they are going to have cap difficulties. Tax difficulties. Add in the likelyhood that Ant starts thinking about being a Laker or Heat before long. And you have a situation that is likely to yield high picks in the future.

Throw in top of all that, the issue with Gobert isn't regular season play. It's playoff play. He plays like a top 20 guy in the regular season, but when teams have time to game plan against him his impact drops precipitously down to a top100 or lower player.

MIN will definitely be expensive next year, but the owners will likely use the Wolves success to ask for some public funding on a much-needed new arena. Spending tens of millions now in payroll can save hundreds of millions with a new arena, and boost the value of the franchise.

And we don’t know if any player is going to demand a trade, but it’s hard to find a player in the NBA that seems happier than Anthony Edwards. And I think the chance of him wanting to walk increases dramatically if the team wasn’t winning.

Finally, I understand when some other fans mistakenly scapegoat Gobert for Utah’s lack of success in the playoffs, but I’m surprised to hear it from a Jazz fan. The Wolves defense is not a fluke, and they have been doing all this mostly without Jaden McDaniels. Jazz opponents would continually beat Gobert’s teammates at the perimeter - but with the Wolves, Rudy has better defenders all over the line up. If a simple plan to defeat Gobert was exposed in he playoffs, you’d see current coaches using it now.

I have been a longtime fan of both MIN and UTA, and I think this trade has turned out to be a win for both teams.

I don't think I said anything remotely similar. If i were to blame Utah's lack of success in the post season I would put it on our guards inability to defend their positions. I think that the Jazz moneyballed things, they had a generational defensive player in Gobert, so they loaded up on offensive players that didn't play defense, because they could. Gobert erased a lot of mistakes. However, in the post season teams were able to negate Gobert's defense to a large degree and the Jazz guards who benefited greatly from his defense in the regular season were suddenly exposed in the playoffs.

I wouldn't blame Gobert. I would blame the Jazz for not making Mitchell the PG and finding a good all around SG to put next to him. As important at Conley was to the Jazz, he and Mitchell were a huge hole on defense in the playoffs. And by my eye that was the reason for the Jazz struggles in the playoffs.

[MalonesElbows]

If Minny can figure out how to make Gobert work in the playoffs, its a win for them.

[AbeVigodaLive]

It's not just Kessler vs Gobert it's Gobert vs the picks and other players.

Okay so you admitted your 4pts/4rebounds comment was meaningless?

I'll add
Couple more losses by Min last year they could have given up the lottery pick that ended up to be Wemby.

And only 3 more wins and the Timberwolves are beating the Denver Nuggets and could have won a title...

This game of hypotheticals about things that never happened is fun!

[babyjax13]

Just Kessler, Vando and Keyonte George are worth more than 30+ y/o Gobert on more than max money, and they still owe 3 more 1sts and a swap.

I don't think Kessler, George, and Vando are worth more than Gobert. Kessler is good, an adequate starting center at this point. George has some promise but is a bad NBA player at the moment. Vanderbilt is a nice linking piece, but is a backup.

[firedavidkahn]

You cannot be taken seriously by comparing box scores when it comes to Gobert

Teams will actively avoid going anywhere near him which, obviously, cuts down on his box score stats.

I'm sure that warrior fan would accept that Lebron is far superior to Curry based on thr massive gap in box score stats

It's not just Kessler vs Gobert it's Gobert vs the picks and other players.

Well none of the players are even on the Jazz anymore.

Feel free to bump this thread in 8 years so we can see if the 2027 or 2029 pick was worth it!

[firedavidkahn]

It's not just Kessler vs Gobert it's Gobert vs the picks and other players.

Okay so you admitted your 4pts/4rebounds comment was meaningless?

No not on a cost analysis basis

I'll add
Couple more losses by Min last year they could have given up the lottery pick that ended up to be Wemby.

Feel free to post a prediction where Min is leading conference

https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/10072462-re-grading-rudy-gobert-trade-ahead-of-minnesota-timberwolves-2023-nba-playoffs.amp.html

This keeps getting better. The Gobert trade is now horrible because we gave up on a 0.5% chance to land Wemby