2003 Tim Duncan is transported to 2024 NBA

[dj20001]

Crazy how fortunate he was in the quality of his team mates for most of his career.

So quality you won’t do us the favor of listing the names - I was hoping get in a laugh or two.

Be kinder!

Names? Of who?

“Names? Of who?” Actually that’s the perfect response.

[One_and_Done]

98 and 99 are interesting to list bc Duncan came into the league after a full career in college - he was ready to go. Kobe was what? 20 at the time, on a stacked roster? Why would he be ranked in the MVP convo coming off of the bench?

Pretty sure forwards and centers typically win the award over guards and wings in part bc of counting stats. I know for a fact more post players have won MVP historically as well. Mainly points, shooting percentage and rebounds. Then you have the sharing with Shaq aspect. Had a positive impact on winning, probably a negative impact on Kobe statistically.

Who were the wing type players ranked ahead of Kobe during the seasons you listed? Where did Duncan and Kobe rank in MVP voting post 2007? Why stop before Kobe won the award? Since you’re attributing the end of Duncan’s career to having better teammates and taking a backseat, isn’t that exactly what Kobe was doing to start his career?

The argument for Kobe has always been longevity. He was involved in the MVP convo for a longer stretch than Duncan, which is why you cherry picked years and tried to create an iron clad explanation using “teammates”.

This is bad work man.

Which of the 10 errors do you want to be corrected on first? The part about there not being wings as good as Kobe during his career (though why would that matter?), or the part about Tim Duncan having the advantage due to his gaudy stats on slow paced teams?

You complain about Kobe being too young in 98 & 99. That's true in a sense, he wasn't in his prime no more than Duncan was in 08 onwards. On the other hand, Duncan was top 5 in MVP voting as a 21 year old rookie, and best player in the league at 22. Where was Kobe then? 12th and 9th in MVP and not even the best player on his own team. Duncan was also still all-nba 1st team and the best player on a title team at 36 and 37. At the same age Kobe was one of the most negative players in the league and shooting his team out of every game. It also strikes me Lakers fans are very quick to mention post-prime Duncan and injured Manu going down to the stacked Pau-Kobe Lakers, but silent on 99 when a much closer to his prime Kobe and prime Shaq got bushwacked by Duncan.

I asked you to list the wings ranked higher than Kobe in MVP voting during those years - you didn’t. We know LBJ was probably there (again an inherent advantage in counting stats).

Kobe wasn’t winning MVP with that version of Shaq on his team, Duncan wouldn’t have either. Robinson afforded Duncan with a good amount of opportunity starting out - you mention none of it.

Kobe is one of four players ever to score 20k points in a decade. Somehow he did this with Shaq as a teammate for almost half the 2000s and has 5 rings to show for it. How many rings does Duncan have from 2000-2010?

Pretty sure Kobe is also the only player ever with 20k points, ten all star appearances, ten all NBA teams and ten all defense selections for any given ten year stretch in league history.

You COULD say Duncan was able to win all defense awards later into his career bc the center position was declining. I won’t go there, but that’s something you definitely would point to if we were on different sides of the line.

You need more ammo dude, I’m just getting started.

Who scored the most points in games on a Sunday? Pretty arbitrary points of reference.

[dj20001]

Which of the 10 errors do you want to be corrected on first? The part about there not being wings as good as Kobe during his career (though why would that matter?), or the part about Tim Duncan having the advantage due to his gaudy stats on slow paced teams?

You complain about Kobe being too young in 98 & 99. That's true in a sense, he wasn't in his prime no more than Duncan was in 08 onwards. On the other hand, Duncan was top 5 in MVP voting as a 21 year old rookie, and best player in the league at 22. Where was Kobe then? 12th and 9th in MVP and not even the best player on his own team. Duncan was also still all-nba 1st team and the best player on a title team at 36 and 37. At the same age Kobe was one of the most negative players in the league and shooting his team out of every game. It also strikes me Lakers fans are very quick to mention post-prime Duncan and injured Manu going down to the stacked Pau-Kobe Lakers, but silent on 99 when a much closer to his prime Kobe and prime Shaq got bushwacked by Duncan.

I asked you to list the wings ranked higher than Kobe in MVP voting during those years - you didn’t. We know LBJ was probably there (again an inherent advantage in counting stats).

Kobe wasn’t winning MVP with that version of Shaq on his team, Duncan wouldn’t have either. Robinson afforded Duncan with a good amount of opportunity starting out - you mention none of it.

Kobe is one of four players ever to score 20k points in a decade. Somehow he did this with Shaq as a teammate for almost half the 2000s and has 5 rings to show for it. How many rings does Duncan have from 2000-2010?

Pretty sure Kobe is also the only player ever with 20k points, ten all star appearances, ten all NBA teams and ten all defense selections for any given ten year stretch in league history.

You COULD say Duncan was able to win all defense awards later into his career bc the center position was declining. I won’t go there, but that’s something you definitely would point to if we were on different sides of the line.

You need more ammo dude, I’m just getting started.

Who scored the most points in games on a Sunday? Pretty arbitrary points of reference.

Most everything could be seen as arbitrary to someone that already doesn’t agree

[Rust_Cohle]

Was David Robinson still elite when the Spurs drafted Duncan?

Feels like that duo gets overlooked.

Not really, he was on a slow decline

[One_and_Done]

Was David Robinson still elite when the Spurs drafted Duncan?

Feels like that duo gets overlooked.

Not really, he was on a slow decline

Watching the 99 finals it's astonishing how much better Duncan is. I'll have to break down the plays for one game at some point, or at least a stretch. Duncan is carrying the whole team basically.

[Rust_Cohle]

Was David Robinson still elite when the Spurs drafted Duncan?

Feels like that duo gets overlooked.

Not really, he was on a slow decline

Watching the 99 finals it's astonishing how much better Duncan is. I'll have to break down the plays for one game at some point, or at least a stretch. Duncan is carrying the whole team basically.

I’ve been a die hard Spurs fan since 1995 and Robinson is the biggest reason. He was still very good defensively but lost a lot of explosiveness after being so injured the year they drafted TD.

Robinson deserves a lot of credit for being the main man for so long for SA and yet after one practice with TD he told Pop Tim needs to be the #1 option. As good as SA were in ‘95 I wish Spurs had gotten Robinson more help. I love Elliott but him being their second best player was never going to result in a title.


Was thrilled Robinson was able to go out with a ring in 2003.

For TD, I wonder when the next time is we will see a second year player win Finals MVP. I know Duncan was drafted into a situation better than most rookies but I wouldn’t even call the ‘99 team stacked per say. Especially compared to almost any other title winning team of the last 30 years. I believe Magic was the last player to win a finals mvp in just his second year in the league.

[brutalitops]

Top 3 big man without thinking too hard about it.

[dj20001]

Not really, he was on a slow decline

Watching the 99 finals it's astonishing how much better Duncan is. I'll have to break down the plays for one game at some point, or at least a stretch. Duncan is carrying the whole team basically.

I’ve been a die hard Spurs fan since 1995 and Robinson is the biggest reason. He was still very good defensively but lost a lot of explosiveness after being so injured the year they drafted TD.

Robinson deserves a lot of credit for being the main man for so long for SA and yet after one practice with TD he told Pop Tim needs to be the #1 option. As good as SA were in ‘95 I wish Spurs had gotten Robinson more help. I love Elliott but him being their second best player was never going to result in a title.


Was thrilled Robinson was able to go out with a ring in 2003.

For TD, I wonder when the next time is we will see a second year player win Finals MVP. I know Duncan was drafted into a situation better than most rookies but I wouldn’t even call the ‘99 team stacked per say. Especially compared to almost any other title winning team of the last 30 years. I believe Magic was the last player to win a finals mvp in just his second year in the league.

The two players you listed, were probably drafted into the best situations for players that everyone knew would be slam dunk contributors in the league.

Duncan would have struggled a bit more versus Shaq, on his own for example. As you mentioned, Robinson took some of the brunt in those matchups leaving Duncan to feast on undersized Laker 4s like Robert Horry and roam a bit on defense. Magic had Kareem of course.

Tim Duncan though, ready made for the league from day one.

[dhsilv2]

Probably second behind Jokic

Tim Duncan was on the all defensive team 15 tines and on the first team 8 times. Jokic has never had the honor.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

And? Jokic is having a 4 year run better than anything guys not named Lebron, Kareem, or Jordan have done.

[dhsilv2]

Number 1

If 2003 TD play in today’s game. He is still the best player in the league.

Probably the best player on earth and pushing the hell
Out of jokic cause he was better defensively -

Damn and if Jokic, Duncan, Kawhi and SGA the faces of one league we would officially have no drama, no bs and the basketball league that KD and Kyrie always whining about - a league where basketball rules and no one talked about anything but on the court basketball- no politics no crazy club crap no fights no conditioning issues - just ball-

No commercials either lol

Tim Duncan might be the single greatest NBA commercial guy ever! I better hope we still get Duncan commercials if he plays today!

[dhsilv2]

100%.

What puts Duncan so high on the all-time-rankings is that he was constantly a top-5 player every year. As someone who essentially watched his entire career, I am pretty sure that he almost never was considered to be the best player in any year he played.

Top-5 most of the time, but never No. 1. Kobe, Shaq, LeBron stole No. 1 a lot of the times.
I get why in hindsight a lot of people want to put Duncan at No 1. if he played today. I mean, how can a Borderline Top-7 player of all time not be No 1. now? Well, he just never had these absurd peaks. Was always great, but never the best in any season.

This is completely ahistorical. Duncan was praised as the best player in the whole league as early as his 2nd year. He won 2 MVPs, and when you look at his prime from 98 to 07 he was consistently rated higher than Kobe over that period. Your confusing water cooler talking head chatter with what actually happened.

98- 5th (Kobe didn't even place)
99- 3rd (Kobe didn't even place)
00 - 5th (Kobe 12th)
01- 2nd (Kobe 9th)
02- 1st (Kobe 5th)
03- 1st (Kobe 3rd)
04- 2nd (Kobe 5th)
05- 4th (Kobe didn't even place)
06- 8th (Kobe 4th)
07- 4th (Kobe 3rd)

So you can see Duncan was generally kicking Kobe's ass in the minds of MVP voters over their primes, and Kobe's only 2 finishes over Duncan come right at the tail end of his prime when Duncan was chilling a little mord in the regular season and letting Manu & Parker carry more of the load. MVP voting isn't everything, but it conveys popular sentiment outside LA nicely here.

98 and 99 are interesting to list bc Duncan came into the league after a full career in college - he was ready to go. Kobe was what? 20 at the time, on a stacked roster? Why would he be ranked in the MVP convo coming off of the bench?

Pretty sure forwards and centers typically win the award over guards and wings in part bc of counting stats. I know for a fact more post players have won MVP historically as well. Mainly points, shooting percentage and rebounds. Then you have the sharing with Shaq aspect. Had a positive impact on winning, probably a negative impact on Kobe statistically.

Who were the wing type players ranked ahead of Kobe during the seasons you listed? Where did Duncan and Kobe rank in MVP voting post 2007? Why stop before Kobe won the award? Since you’re attributing the end of Duncan’s career to having better teammates and taking a backseat, isn’t that exactly what Kobe was doing to start his career?

The argument for Kobe has always been longevity. He was involved in the MVP convo for a longer stretch than Duncan, which is why you cherry picked years and tried to create an iron clad explanation using “teammates”.

This is bad work man.

How do you define in the MVP talks? Duncan first got votes in 98 and last got votes in 2015. Kobe first got votes in 2000 and last got them in 2013.

[og15]

With how sweet of a mid range game Duncan had, there is absolutely no reason that would not have extended to the three point line. Factor in his passing and defense, he would be amazing in any era.

Would Duncan need to extend to three? Maybe just a little, take like two a game. His mid-range shooting, or 15+ feet shooting was in the lower rank around the league during his peak, and of course he was an up and down FT shooter.

Watch on YouTube

;pp=ygUaZ3JlYXRlc3QgcGVha3MgdGltIGR1bmNhbiA%3D

[70sFan]

Probably second behind Jokic

Tim Duncan was on the all defensive team 15 tines and on the first team 8 times. Jokic has never had the honor.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

And? Jokic is having a 4 year run better than anything guys not named Lebron, Kareem, or Jordan have done.

That's quite a statement presented like a fact. Quite a few more players have reasonable cases ahead of 2021-24 Jokic.

[dhsilv2]

there's ZERO chance Duncan passes Jokic. From there Giannis, Luka, Embiid (healthy) and maybe SGA would be fighting for 2nd with Duncan. So for sure a top 6 player and I'm biased and a huge Duncan fan. So I'd rank him higher.

[dhsilv2]

Tim Duncan was on the all defensive team 15 tines and on the first team 8 times. Jokic has never had the honor.

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app

And? Jokic is having a 4 year run better than anything guys not named Lebron, Kareem, or Jordan have done.

That's quite a statement presented like a fact. Quite a few more players have reasonable cases ahead of 2021-24 Jokic.

I suppose we could discuss Russell. Beyond that I can't imagine a case for the likes of Magic, Bird, or even Shaq.

[ballzboyee]

I think he's exactly where he was during his playing days. Top 5

100%.

What puts Duncan so high on the all-time-rankings is that he was constantly a top-5 player every year. As someone who essentially watched his entire career, I am pretty sure that he almost never was considered to be the best player in any year he played.

Top-5 most of the time, but never No. 1. Kobe, Shaq, LeBron stole No. 1 a lot of the times.
I get why in hindsight a lot of people want to put Duncan at No 1. if he played today. I mean, how can a Borderline Top-7 player of all time not be No 1. now? Well, he just never had these absurd peaks. Was always great, but never the best in any season.

This is completely ahistorical. Duncan was praised as the best player in the whole league as early as his 2nd year. He won 2 MVPs, and when you look at his prime from 98 to 07 he was consistently rated higher than Kobe over that period. Your confusing water cooler talking head chatter with what actually happened.

98- 5th (Kobe didn't even place)
99- 3rd (Kobe didn't even place)
00 - 5th (Kobe 12th)
01- 2nd (Kobe 9th)
02- 1st (Kobe 5th)
03- 1st (Kobe 3rd)
04- 2nd (Kobe 5th)
05- 4th (Kobe didn't even place)
06- 8th (Kobe 4th)
07- 4th (Kobe 3rd)

So you can see Duncan was generally kicking Kobe's ass in the minds of MVP voters over their primes, and Kobe's only 2 finishes over Duncan come right at the tail end of his prime when Duncan was chilling a little mord in the regular season and letting Manu & Parker carry more of the load. MVP voting isn't everything, but it conveys popular sentiment outside LA nicely here.

Those are just popularity awards, and Duncan being Mr. Clean Cut light skinned guy was destined to be a media darling. Kobe completely destroyed Duncan head-to-head in the playoffs.

Duncan is just overrated on RealGM, especially for a big. People have Duncan in the top 5 when he had a season when he should have been still in or close to his prime, and he averaged 13ppg/9reb/2ast, and people think he would be Jokic or Embiid in today's era? As a supposed "superstar," Duncan literally averaged 13ppg for an entire season on a championship-level roster, and people have him in top five all-time?

To be honest, I don't even think Duncan would have the versatility to play on the level of a guy like Karl-Anthony Towns. Duncan was very slow, methodical player on offense and a system guy under Popovich. Where is the idea coming from that he's going able to run and space the floor or attack every level of defense like Embiid with his shooting touch or be quick enough to front the basket like a lot of bigs today with their offensive versatility off the dribble? Or consistently hit a 3-point shot like Jokic or Towns? If you look at guy Towns and Jokic, they shoot like 85% from the line. Duncan had seasons where he was not much better than Shaq from the FT line. He once shot below 60% one season from the line. He was not a great shooter for much his career.

Based upon what would make even him a top three big in today's league, much less a top three player overall? People just have a huge recency bias because of the Spurs win over Lebron's Heat team in the Finals in 2014, and now they ridiculously overrate Duncan. Of course, Lebron wouild have to lose to another top five player and not a guy who got that carried by three other hall of famers and an all-time great coach.

Just looking at his skill sets that he showed while playing, if Duncan had to play like a modern big he would be roughly equivalent or slightly better than Brook Lopez. That's just being honest. The stats that we saw from Duncan when the Spurs went to more of spread 4-out of 1-in system are pretty much what he would have in today's NBA. He would be roughly somewhere between a 15-20ppg scorer and give you maybe 8 to 10 rebounds per game. His assist numbers would go up obviously. His impact defensively would we greatly watered down due to the fact he would no longer be a paint protector because he would pulled out to guard an opposing big on the perimeter. On offense he would be setting high ball screens and rolling off pics shooting 3's (assuming he would be an efficient shooter) or rolling to the basket, which was very similar to what the Spurs were doing when they won their last championship. That year Duncan averaged 15ppg/9reb/3ast.

This idea that Duncan's going to come into this era with these spread systems that are guard oriented and score 30ppg and be top 3 player is just not supported by any facts. There is only one true big in top 20 in scoring and that's Jokic. Giannis and Davis do not count because they both possess guard skill-sets with the ability to put the ball on the floor and dribble-drive to the basket from multiple levels (full court bringing the ball up, iso in half court, and from the post). Duncan was fairly good off the dribble and attacking the basket in a more limited way out of the post, but is Duncan going to be even a top 20 scorer in the league today? No, he's probably not. You can look at guy like Towns who has shot 40% from three for his career, much better free throw shooter than Duncan (Towns has even had a season where he almost shot 90% from the line), and a versatile and all-around skilled offensive player, and Towns is barely in the top 30 in scoring off 16 fga. Sixteen shots per game was roughly Duncan's career volume.

So, no, Duncan definitely not a top three player in this league. He's a good version Brook Lopez. Best case scenario that he would be as Towns on offense (unlikely), and he would still find some way to impact the game defensively like he did when he played. He's not going to be Embiid, Jokic, or even Giannis. All three of those guys are better offensively than Duncan by a pretty big margin.

[Rust_Cohle]

Watching the 99 finals it's astonishing how much better Duncan is. I'll have to break down the plays for one game at some point, or at least a stretch. Duncan is carrying the whole team basically.

I’ve been a die hard Spurs fan since 1995 and Robinson is the biggest reason. He was still very good defensively but lost a lot of explosiveness after being so injured the year they drafted TD.

Robinson deserves a lot of credit for being the main man for so long for SA and yet after one practice with TD he told Pop Tim needs to be the #1 option. As good as SA were in ‘95 I wish Spurs had gotten Robinson more help. I love Elliott but him being their second best player was never going to result in a title.


Was thrilled Robinson was able to go out with a ring in 2003.

For TD, I wonder when the next time is we will see a second year player win Finals MVP. I know Duncan was drafted into a situation better than most rookies but I wouldn’t even call the ‘99 team stacked per say. Especially compared to almost any other title winning team of the last 30 years. I believe Magic was the last player to win a finals mvp in just his second year in the league.

The two players you listed, were probably drafted into the best situations for players that everyone knew would be slam dunk contributors in the league.

Duncan would have struggled a bit more versus Shaq, on his own for example. As you mentioned, Robinson took some of the brunt in those matchups leaving Duncan to feast on undersized Laker 4s like Robert Horry and roam a bit on defense. Magic had Kareem of course.

Tim Duncan though, ready made for the league from day one.

Very true, Duncan did very well against Shaq in 2003, but he was far more experienced by then. Robinson in 99 especially was even better against Shaq defensively. Imagine if Duncan was drafted into a team with an established Carmelo Anthony or something. Ask Jeremy Lin how that would go haha ego wise

[tsherkin]

Hmm. Top-end defender in today's game still, for sure. Rookie year and 02, 03 notwithstanding, he wasn't actually a dominant player in terms of scoring efficiency or volume. He fit into a scheme, did what he needed to and had some timely postseason performances. Crap at the foul line most of his career, but he certainly had a jumper later on in his career and it isn't hard to envision him being enough of a 3pt shooter to supplement himself well in today's league. We're talking like 2 3PA/g on 33% or something like that, but enough to help him push into that +1, +2% rTS type territory to make his offensive utility a little stronger. Peak Duncan, obviously a little bit of a different story; in his MVP years, he was killing it from the field enough that the 3 would matter less, but that's a fairly narrow slice of his career. Duncan wasn't actually a dominant scorer/offensive force over most of his career. His big claims were rebounding, defense and how adaptable he was into Pops' various schemes and the various players the Spurs fielded. A lot of the talk of his jumper was more about short shots inside 15 feet, and he took about 2/3s of his shots inside 10 feet. He was basically a 69/45/41 player in terms of 0-3, 3-10 and 10-16 foot ranges over his career. 11-14, he shot over a quarter of his shots from 16-23 feet and was hitting 43%, but of course his overall volume was down by that point as well. Basically, we talk up his jumper a little more than we should in the main because he could and did take 15-footers and everyone loved his bankers, but his jumper was more the kind you saw from Ho Grant and Kurt Thomas than, say, someone truly elite like Dirk. It helped, of course, but yeah.

Hard to imagine him not being a top 5 kind of player, but I think "best player in the league" type responses are significant hyperbole. Still, on a team with good spacing, he moved well without the ball, didn't demand too many touches but didn't shy away from scoring as needed, had a little range, wasn't a TOTAL boob at the line, and he was excellent at both rebounding and defense.

[JustBuzzin]

Was David Robinson still elite when the Spurs drafted Duncan?

Feels like that duo gets overlooked.

Not really, he was on a slow decline

Watching the 99 finals it's astonishing how much better Duncan is. I'll have to break down the plays for one game at some point, or at least a stretch. Duncan is carrying the whole team basically.

Was Robinson that washed?

Looking at the roster besides a aging Sean Elliot they didn't have much firepower. Duncan was HIM even early in his career.

[JustBuzzin]

Not really, he was on a slow decline

Watching the 99 finals it's astonishing how much better Duncan is. I'll have to break down the plays for one game at some point, or at least a stretch. Duncan is carrying the whole team basically.

I’ve been a die hard Spurs fan since 1995 and Robinson is the biggest reason. He was still very good defensively but lost a lot of explosiveness after being so injured the year they drafted TD.

Robinson deserves a lot of credit for being the main man for so long for SA and yet after one practice with TD he told Pop Tim needs to be the #1 option. As good as SA were in ‘95 I wish Spurs had gotten Robinson more help. I love Elliott but him being their second best player was never going to result in a title.


Was thrilled Robinson was able to go out with a ring in 2003.

For TD, I wonder when the next time is we will see a second year player win Finals MVP. I know Duncan was drafted into a situation better than most rookies but I wouldn’t even call the ‘99 team stacked per say. Especially compared to almost any other title winning team of the last 30 years. I believe Magic was the last player to win a finals mvp in just his second year in the league.

If Robinson was a bit younger that team probably would have a few more championships.

Both Robinson/Duncan had a post game and mid range. Literally the perfect fit giving their skillset to hit the jumpshot.