RealGM

Mr Puddles wrote:

Marvin Martian wrote:

Mr Puddles wrote:
Citizens or RealGM, I've seen this written about 10 times now.

The Suns have a first round pick in 2024, 2026,2028,2030.

They don't have a first round pick in 2025, 2027, 2029.

Do they own them or are they pick swaps?

2024 is their own, 2026, 2028, 2030 picks are potential pick swaps as part of the Beal trade with Washington. In other words means the suns still have a first rounder in those years regardless.

There's a BIG difference between having to give up an four unprotected first rounders and maybe having a lower first rounder in three out of four years.

Still pretty brutal they traded for worst contract in the league arguably, and had to do 3 swaps to boot.

I mean yes, easy for me to say after it failed, Suns had somewhat opened window and at least they tried, but doubt many are shocked this deal in particular was a disaster, Beal was making worst contracts list the moment it was signed, and he is getting older while the salary is getting bigger, plus no trade clause.

Lillard and Kawhi I think have very high potential to be almost as bad the assets as this, we could argue Lillard is already there... So, at least Suns arent the only dummies with such problem.

Damn Beal’s contract almost feels Ben Simmons bad lol

His contract pretty much dooms the Suns until an inevitable rebuild. Suddenly the Nets must not feel that bad.

Nets fan here. Feel like we should send you guys a care package.

It's hard to have expectations and then not even really be in the game post season.

KD is a monster but his late career arc is...not good to say the least.

UcanUwill wrote:

Mr Puddles wrote:

Marvin Martian wrote:Do they own them or are they pick swaps?

2024 is their own, 2026, 2028, 2030 picks are potential pick swaps as part of the Beal trade with Washington. In other words means the suns still have a first rounder in those years regardless.

There's a BIG difference between having to give up an four unprotected first rounders and maybe having a lower first rounder in three out of four years.

Still pretty brutal they traded for worst contract in the league arguably, and had to do 3 swaps to boot.

I mean yes, easy for me to say after it failed, Suns had somewhat opened window and at least they tried, but doubt many are shocked this deal in particular was a disaster, Beal was making worst contracts list the moment it was signed, and he is getting older while the salary is getting bigger, plus no trade clause.

Lillard and Kawhi I think have very high potential to be almost as bad the assets as this, we could argue Lillard is already there... So, at least Suns arent the only dummies with such problem.

The suns are definitely in a tough situation.

I will say that that this time last year, people were saying the same things about the Mavericks and Wolves. Specifically about Kyrie and Gobert, and the teams' lack of assets (although those are a lot more dire in the Suns' situation).

Not saying the suns will magically turn things around, but both the aformented teams improved a lot by making minor moves and having additional time to gel.

PhilBlackson wrote:Damn Beal’s contract almost feels Ben Simmons bad lol

His contract pretty much dooms the Suns until an inevitable rebuild. Suddenly the Nets must not feel that bad.

Simmons was bad, but the fact he rarely played meant that he couldn't take mins away from the youngsters who could be long term players on the team.

Can't say that about Beal

3 years ago, they had the most balanced starting 5. That superstar trio is gross.

Mr Puddles wrote:

UcanUwill wrote:

Mr Puddles wrote:
2024 is their own, 2026, 2028, 2030 picks are potential pick swaps as part of the Beal trade with Washington. In other words means the suns still have a first rounder in those years regardless.

There's a BIG difference between having to give up an four unprotected first rounders and maybe having a lower first rounder in three out of four years.

Still pretty brutal they traded for worst contract in the league arguably, and had to do 3 swaps to boot.

I mean yes, easy for me to say after it failed, Suns had somewhat opened window and at least they tried, but doubt many are shocked this deal in particular was a disaster, Beal was making worst contracts list the moment it was signed, and he is getting older while the salary is getting bigger, plus no trade clause.

Lillard and Kawhi I think have very high potential to be almost as bad the assets as this, we could argue Lillard is already there... So, at least Suns arent the only dummies with such problem.

The suns are definitely in a tough situation.

I will say that that this time last year, people were saying the same things about the Mavericks and Wolves. Specifically about Kyrie and Gobert, and the teams' lack of assets (although those are a lot more dire in the Suns' situation).

Not saying the suns will magically turn things around, but both the aformented teams improved a lot by making minor moves and having additional time to gel.

I would not say Wolves ever lacked assets, Gobert fit was dumb, but turned out not to be dumb. Dallas do lack assets and they have traded for Kyrie. Kyrie miraculously did not sabotage the team, but I think asset ptoblem is still present, they can still lose in round one just like Suns did.

But no one really compares to Suns roster. They pay 3 guys more than half the teams have on entire payroll, they could only afford min contracts. One really paid off - Grayson Allen. Others did as much as they cost, and two of their big 3 are old and reaching washed territory. Suns are trapped right now, even blowing it up is hard, they traded away and swapped picks, their worst contract can veto any trade, it is brutal. We can look at Wolves turn around and wonder, but big difference is none of Wolves were old, Suns barely played together, but even if they find something, is there really upside left with ancient Beal and Durant there?

In Kevin O'Connors fashion, Bleak future Suns.

Mr Puddles wrote:
If the Suns wanted to, they could trade two first rounders this off-season, which again is a far cry from them not having any picks to trade.

They can't trade a first until 2031. The NBA has a safety clause to prevent terrible management from trading all first rounders they have. If you trade a pick in one year you cannot the next year.

UcanUwill wrote:

Mr Puddles wrote:

UcanUwill wrote:
Still pretty brutal they traded for worst contract in the league arguably, and had to do 3 swaps to boot.

I mean yes, easy for me to say after it failed, Suns had somewhat opened window and at least they tried, but doubt many are shocked this deal in particular was a disaster, Beal was making worst contracts list the moment it was signed, and he is getting older while the salary is getting bigger, plus no trade clause.

Lillard and Kawhi I think have very high potential to be almost as bad the assets as this, we could argue Lillard is already there... So, at least Suns arent the only dummies with such problem.

The suns are definitely in a tough situation.

I will say that that this time last year, people were saying the same things about the Mavericks and Wolves. Specifically about Kyrie and Gobert, and the teams' lack of assets (although those are a lot more dire in the Suns' situation).

Not saying the suns will magically turn things around, but both the aformented teams improved a lot by making minor moves and having additional time to gel.

I would not say Wolves ever lacked assets, Gobert fit was dumb, but turned out not to be dumb. Dallas do lack assets and they have traded for Kyrie. Kyrie miraculously did not sabotage the team, but I think asset ptoblem is still present, they can still lose in round one just like Suns did.

But no one really compares to Suns roster. They pay 3 guys more than half the teams have on entire payroll, they could only afford min contracts. One really paid off - Grayson Allen. Others did as much as they cost, and two of their big 3 are old and reaching washed territory. Suns are trapped right now, even blowing it up is hard, they traded away and swapped picks, their worst contract can veto any trade, it is brutal. We can look at Wolves turn around and wonder, but big difference is none of Wolves were old, Suns barely played together, but even if they find something, is there really upside left with ancient Beal and Durant there?

In Kevin O'Connors fashion, Bleak future Suns.

That was definitely not the narrative last off-season. The Wolves has messed up trading for a bad fit, and owed one more first rounder than the Suns at the time (23, 25, 27, 29), they just didn't have the same pick swaps as the Suns.

Ostensibly, they were in an unsalvageble situation and had messed up Ant's future. Gobert was past his prime, clogged up the lane for Edward's, gets exposed in the playoffs....People tend to have short memories when it comes to this stuff.

Now people are lauding the same team.

basketballto wrote:

Mr Puddles wrote:
If the Suns wanted to, they could trade two first rounders this off-season, which again is a far cry from them not having any picks to trade.

They can't trade a first until 2031. The NBA has a safety clause to prevent terrible management from trading all first rounders they have. If you trade a pick in one year you cannot the next year.

They can trade pick 2024 and 2031 starting two months from now.

Run it back one more year with a REAL point guard. They won 50 games with Beal barely playing half the season. It ain't like they fell off the map. I 'm not giving up on a KD/Booker/Beal trio off of one year.

tundraknight wrote:

Read on Twitter

Ishiba

Panic Sell!!!


No.. just use the offseason to bring in more reliable pieces around your star core.

Mr Puddles wrote:

UcanUwill wrote:

Mr Puddles wrote:
The suns are definitely in a tough situation.

I will say that that this time last year, people were saying the same things about the Mavericks and Wolves. Specifically about Kyrie and Gobert, and the teams' lack of assets (although those are a lot more dire in the Suns' situation).

Not saying the suns will magically turn things around, but both the aformented teams improved a lot by making minor moves and having additional time to gel.

I would not say Wolves ever lacked assets, Gobert fit was dumb, but turned out not to be dumb. Dallas do lack assets and they have traded for Kyrie. Kyrie miraculously did not sabotage the team, but I think asset ptoblem is still present, they can still lose in round one just like Suns did.

But no one really compares to Suns roster. They pay 3 guys more than half the teams have on entire payroll, they could only afford min contracts. One really paid off - Grayson Allen. Others did as much as they cost, and two of their big 3 are old and reaching washed territory. Suns are trapped right now, even blowing it up is hard, they traded away and swapped picks, their worst contract can veto any trade, it is brutal. We can look at Wolves turn around and wonder, but big difference is none of Wolves were old, Suns barely played together, but even if they find something, is there really upside left with ancient Beal and Durant there?

In Kevin O'Connors fashion, Bleak future Suns.

That was definitely not the narrative last off-season. The Wolves has messed up trading for a bad fit, and owed one more first rounder than the Suns at the time (23, 25, 27, 29), they just didn't have the same pick swaps as the Suns.

Ostensibly, they were in an unsalvageble situation and had messed up Ant's future. Gobert was past his prime, clogged up the lane for Edward's, gets exposed in the playoffs....People tend to have short memories when it comes to this stuff.

Now people are lauding the same team.

Ok, that is true. They gave way too much for Rudy even looking at it now. I just looked more at roster construction. Minny had decent roster even last year, but we didnt know Rudy and KAT could work, it wasnt working, but they turned it around. Maybe Suns can pull off the fit suddenly working but I think their construct is put together in a worse way still.

Trade Booker to the Lakers

Beethoven wrote:Trade Booker to the Lakers

Your franchise has garbage trade assets (bums like Rui, DLo, Reaves) plus your very few first round picks available won't come close to cutting it. Keep dreaming lol

doogie_hauser wrote:

Beethoven wrote:Trade Booker to the Lakers

Your franchise has garbage trade assets (bums like Rui, DLo, Reaves) plus your very few first round picks available won't come close to cutting it. Keep dreaming lol

I dont think we have the assets for Booker since hes on a long deal and I doubt he wants out, but dont act like we have nothing

We have 3 1sts, 3 swaps, this years rookie, Reaves on a very good deal, Rui is fine (bad in this series, very good in the reg season and last playoffs though), and Christie.

Didnt you guys get Jrue for like almost nothing

I think we have the assets for Mitchell if he wants out, Trae, or KD

UcanUwill wrote:

Mr Puddles wrote:

UcanUwill wrote:

I would not say Wolves ever lacked assets, Gobert fit was dumb, but turned out not to be dumb. Dallas do lack assets and they have traded for Kyrie. Kyrie miraculously did not sabotage the team, but I think asset ptoblem is still present, they can still lose in round one just like Suns did.

But no one really compares to Suns roster. They pay 3 guys more than half the teams have on entire payroll, they could only afford min contracts. One really paid off - Grayson Allen. Others did as much as they cost, and two of their big 3 are old and reaching washed territory. Suns are trapped right now, even blowing it up is hard, they traded away and swapped picks, their worst contract can veto any trade, it is brutal. We can look at Wolves turn around and wonder, but big difference is none of Wolves were old, Suns barely played together, but even if they find something, is there really upside left with ancient Beal and Durant there?

In Kevin O'Connors fashion, Bleak future Suns.

That was definitely not the narrative last off-season. The Wolves has messed up trading for a bad fit, and owed one more first rounder than the Suns at the time (23, 25, 27, 29), they just didn't have the same pick swaps as the Suns.

Ostensibly, they were in an unsalvageble situation and had messed up Ant's future. Gobert was past his prime, clogged up the lane for Edward's, gets exposed in the playoffs....People tend to have short memories when it comes to this stuff.

Now people are lauding the same team.

Ok, that is true. They gave way too much for Rudy even looking at it now. I just looked more at roster construction. Minny had decent roster even last year, but we didnt know Rudy and KAT could work, it wasnt working, but they turned it around. Maybe Suns can pull off the fit suddenly working but I think their construct is put together in a worse way still.

I agree with that, and I'm not trying to be that "this is fine" dog in the burning apartment - but I do think this board tends to hit the panic button irrationally quickly. I only used those two examples to showcase that a lot can happen in a few months.

The Detriot Pistons should ask a serious question about Booker and his potential availability in a trade.

Their first pick this season obviously, plus a combination of Sasser/Wiseman/Thompson and or other various picks or young playes/assets.

Detriot become an instant playoff team in the East, and Phoenix get younger and also some much needed assets going forwards and don't have to totally bottom out for a rebuild.

Booker being from Michigan and familiar with Monty Williams is also a bonus.

nzahir wrote:

doogie_hauser wrote:

Beethoven wrote:Trade Booker to the Lakers

Your franchise has garbage trade assets (bums like Rui, DLo, Reaves) plus your very few first round picks available won't come close to cutting it. Keep dreaming lol

I dont think we have the assets for Booker since hes on a long deal and I doubt he wants out, but dont act like we have nothing

We have 3 1sts, 3 swaps, this years rookie, Reaves on a very good deal, Rui is fine (bad in this series, very good in the reg season and last playoffs though), and Christie.

Didnt you guys get Jrue for like almost nothing

I think we have the assets for Mitchell if he wants out, Trae, or KD

Honesty I don't think Booker will get moved unless it's for an irrationally lobsided offer that the Suns can't say no to (or if Booker asks out). Like if the 76ers contacted the Suns offering Embiid for Booker straight up, ofcourse the Suns wouldn't be dumb enough to say no. The Suns have invested too much in making him the face of the franchise to trade him without getting a superstar in return.