Was the Bucks-Sixers 2001 ECF series also rigged?

[Walt Cronkite]

So the spots Stern has fixed to rig in the NBA's favor are:

-Having Philly advance over Milwaukee in '02 because no one wants to see Bucks/Lakers

-In that same season, making sure Sacramento and LA go to 7 games (and possibly making sure the Lakers ultimately advance).

-First round series between Dallas and Houston, where Dallas must prevail because...

If the NBA strives for parity (the salary cap and draft lottery being the most obvious examples), wouldn't it be in the leagues interest to have a Kings/Bucks series in 02? Doesn't that create more buzz than having only the Lakers, Pistons, Bulls, Rockets, Spurs and Heat win the title over the past 20 years?

[IggyTheBEaST]

btw, if anything was rigged thatr year it was the lakers winning the finals. There were some damn aweful officiating in that series

[th87]

btw, if anything was rigged thatr year it was the lakers winning the finals. There were some damn aweful officiating in that series

I saw those games. The Lakers outplayed you guys. End of story.

[BobbyLight]

So the spots Stern has fixed to rig in the NBA's favor are:

-Having Philly advance over Milwaukee in '02 because no one wants to see Bucks/Lakers

-In that same season, making sure Sacramento and LA go to 7 games (and possibly making sure the Lakers ultimately advance).

-First round series between Dallas and Houston, where Dallas must prevail because...

If the NBA strives for parity (the salary cap and draft lottery being the most obvious examples), wouldn't it be in the leagues interest to have a Kings/Bucks series in 02? Doesn't that create more buzz than having only the Lakers, Pistons, Bulls, Rockets, Spurs and Heat win the title over the past 20 years?

The Kings/LA series was 02, the year after Bucks/Sixers.

Also, the leauge isn't interested in "buzz" about the finals. They want big TV markets. LA, Chicago, Boston, Philly, etc.

[Bucs80]

What a nonsense this thread is. It's really funny.

Ray Ray should be called the Truth,
he was right about Kobe, and right about this.

I have absouletly no idea what that has to do with "fixing of the games". What Ray said is just common sense. Yes, AI vs Kobe & Shaq = more $$ then Bucks vs Lakers. How the hell that could be consider as a proof? Ok, if it is, are we gonna forbid any possible finals matchups that would lead into higher % of the ratings?

What Ray Allen said has absoultely no weight and it can't be use as a evidence in any strech of imagination.

Oh, i get it. Celtics and Lakers is also rigged cause the legaue wanted this finals. Nevermind both teams were clearly the best teams through out of this year's playoffs.

Also during that game Scott Williams has a foul that was called a normal foul during the game. Then after the game the foul gets upgraded to a flagrant which ment Williams was suspended for game 7.

Really? Intentional elbow in the throat of a player while in full speed is not a flagrant foul?

http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=kayoLtEzf4o (it's right at the begining)

If you dont' consider this a flagrant foul i suggest you switch to hockey.

The foul differential in the Bucks/Sixers series was pretty mindblowing,

Not so mindblowing considering the fact that the Bucks were one of the best jump shooting teams that year (if not the best) and majority of their offense went that way.

On the other hand, Sixers were a complete opposite with 2 of their main guys (Iverson and Mutombo) doing the damage inside the paint.

It's pretty simple, Sixers were attacking the paint, Bucks did not.

Allen Iverson was treated like a GOD in that series.

Please name one other superstar that is not?

Are you sayin MJ push on Russel was not a offensive foul?

There's no question the Bucks would have and should have won that series against Philly. If the NBA truly does rig games, then it better be ready because what goes around (usually) comes around....

If you were such better team than the Sixers how come you barely beat them in game 3, WITHOUT Iverson?



People like to belive to anything but bottom line is: Sixers beat them fair and square. They were a better defensive team, had better coach (Larry Brown) and 2 players Bucks had no idea how to stop (AI and Mutombo). This thread is a joke.

Shot out to Pennyccw for the vid.... Awesome with AI vid.

anyways I feel we won't get a straight answer unless we ask an average NBA Fan. Milwaukee feels they got robbed and the Sixers feel like they won far and square.

[Walt Cronkite]

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The Kings/LA series was 02, the year after Bucks/Sixers.

Also, the leauge isn't interested in "buzz" about the finals. They want big TV markets. LA, Chicago, Boston, Philly, etc.

You're right, I messed up the years, sorry.

Why would the league take so many precautions to promote parity? It's obvious that the league would prefer to have the best teams in the best cities in the best games, but then why have a salary cap?

[rilamann]

LMAO@The Sixer fan.(Iggythe beast)

Please tell me you are being sarcastic and are just trying to make everyone laugh.

Another thing that was kind of odd in the Bucks Sixers series in 2001 was the NBC announcers (Breen,Jones & Walton) called the games (3,4,5,6,7) in such way that made the Bucks out to be the bad guys and the Sixers the good guys.

It was kind of done in subliminal way but I recorded all 7 games and have watched all of them numorous times.

For example.

When the Sixers where playing well it was because the Sixers where a great team and the announcers took turns tossing the Sixers salad.

When the Bucks where playing well it was because of what the Sixers wernt doing and the announcers began talking about what the Sixers had to do to stop these horrible Milwaukee Bucks from beating them.

I dont know if the league had the announcers call the games that way but I found the whole thing very odd.

Also,anyone who says the Bucks should have taken it to the hole more didnt watch the series.Sure the Bucks did take a lot of jumpers as they where a jumpshooting team.

But the Bucks did take it to the hole but they couldnt get a call to save their life.If you take the ball to the hole and get hammered time and time agian and never get a call eventually your gonna shoot more jumpers.

Hell look at the Jim Rome video at the end when Glenn Robinson got raked on the arm (with no call) when he drove to the basket.That went on all series.

How do the refs miss that call BTW? Robinon has the ball in his hands,hes driving to the hoop and not one of the 3 refs see that obvious foul?

Those videos are mine and the Jim Rome one was from Rome's show the day after game 1 BTW.So its not liike it was after all 7 games and Rome found a few clips where the Bucks got screwed over 7 games.

That was all just from game 1.

[BobbyLight]

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You're right, I messed up the years, sorry.

Why would the league take so many precautions to promote parity? It's obvious that the league would prefer to have the best teams in the best cities in the best games, but then why have a salary cap?

To give the apperance of a fair system where all teams can win. Anything is possible at this point and I don't know who's right or wrong. I just want more info.

[Walt Cronkite]

48 more personal fouls called on Bucks during the series

11 technicals for Bucks, 2 technicals for Sixers

5 flagrant fouls on Bucks, none on Sixers

Scott Williams getting removed from game 7 for questionable flagrant fould call

Bucks shot only 3 free throws in one of the games

Dikembe Mutombo, who avearaged something like 6 free throws/game through six games got 19 free throws in game 7

Philly 6th biggest tv market, bucks 30th (or 39th)

[/quote]

The PF differential was actual 43, not 48. Maybe he was counting the 5 flagrant fouls, but do they not could as PFs?

PFs for the season
Philly: 20.4 PF/g (1673 total)
Philly opponent: 23.6 PF/g (1938 total)

Milwaukee: 23.5 PF/g (1928 total)
Milwaukee opponent: 21.7 PF/g (1778 total)

*Milwaukee committed the 6th most fouls in the league while Philly ranked 26th out of 29 teams

FT for the season
Philly:27.77 FT/g (2277 total)
Philly opponent: 20.24 FT/g (1660 total)

Milwaukee: 22.85 FT/g (1874 total)
Milwaukee opponent: 26.66 FT/g (2186 total)

*Philadelphia was 4th in the league at FTA, Milwaukee was 26th out of 29 teams

Over the course of 82 games the 76ers committed 3.2 LESS fouls per game than their opponent.
Over the course of 82 games this meant that Philly shot 7.53 MORE FT/g than their opponent.
Over the course of 82 games the Bucks committed 1.8 MORE fouls per game than their opponent.
Over the course of 82 games this meant that Milwaukee shot 3.81 LESS FT/g than their opponent.

Mil/Phi in season Splits:
Phi: 17.5 pf | 25.8 fta
Mil: 24.5 pf | 14.3 fta

Game by Game
Feb. 13 in Mil (no Mutombo)
*Phi: 24 pf 36 fta
Mil: 29 pf 25 fta

Feb. 26 in Philly (w/ Mutombo)
Phi 14 pf 28 fta
*Mil 27 pf 7 fta

March 17 in Mil (Mutombo but no Iverson)
Phi: 15 pf 13 ft
*Mil: 17 pf 8 fta

March 26 in Philly
*Phil: 17 pf 26 fta
Mil: 25 pf 17 fta

PF for the series
Philly: 17.43 PF/g (122 total)
Milwaukee: 23.57 PF/g (165 total)

FT for the series
Philly: 26.57 FT/g (186 total)
Milwaukee: 17.14 FT/g (120 total)

Over the course of the series the 76ers committed 6.14 LESS fouls than Milwaukee
Over the course of the series this meant that Philly shot 9.43 more FT/g than the Bucks[/i]

This is Iverson's MVP year, so perhaps he was given preferential treatment all season, but to suggest that the series deviated from the mean is incorrect.

[Stanford]

Great post Walt.

God I hate Tim Donaghy. Every series that has a PF differential more than 1 is going to be seen as a fix now.

[Don Draper]

Walt Cronkite if you didn't watch the series all those stats you are pointing gout are useless. I have strong reasons to believe you didn't watch the series. Anyone (and I mean ANYONE) who watched that series knows the ref were horrible at best. I know you think there is nothing going in the NBA but if you didn't watch the series you cannot comment.

[Farm Raid]

If the NBA strives for parity (the salary cap and draft lottery being the most obvious examples), wouldn't it be in the leagues interest to have a Kings/Bucks series in 02? Doesn't that create more buzz than having only the Lakers, Pistons, Bulls, Rockets, Spurs and Heat win the title over the past 20 years?

Although, as mentioned, the years are wrong, your post is sound in theory. Why wouldn't they hype young teams up and create new dynasties and rivalries and stars? There's no reason at all why they wouldn't.

But that's how conspiracies and conspiracy-theorists work. If you do something, that's proof of the conspiracy. If you don't do that something, that's proof the conspriacy is being covered up. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I mean, look at obinna. The guy basically thinks every series for the last ten years was rigged. It's ridiculous.

If things were rigged why wouldn't players like Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter get farther in the playoffs more often? Why wouldn't Kobe get past the first round for three years? They can't answer these questions.

[BobbyLight]

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Although, as mentioned, the years are wrong, your post is sound in theory. Why wouldn't they hype young teams up and create new dynasties and rivalries and stars? There's no reason at all why they wouldn't.

But that's how conspiracies and conspiracy-theorists work. If you do something, that's proof of the conspiracy. If you don't do that something, that's proof the conspriacy is being covered up. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I mean, look at obinna. The guy basically thinks every series for the last ten years was rigged. It's ridiculous.

That street goes both ways. People who believe the conspiracy see it one way, the people who think everything is fine just see it the other way. So both sides justify to no end who is wrong or right. I want more info. I'm on the fence now. But it always felt like something was wrong with this series and the 2002 WCF's that had to be more than incompetent refereeing.

Also, looking purely at numbers is not a good way to judge a series. Also, flagrants do count as personal fouls so the 48 FT's more over the series is HUGE. Seriously, 48 free points (assuming they are made) over a series is a lot to overcome.

[Don Draper]

[quote="Farm Raid"]-= original quote snipped =-



Although, as mentioned, the years are wrong, your post is sound in theory. Why wouldn't they hype young teams up and create new dynasties and rivalries and stars? There's no reason at all why they wouldn't.

But that's how conspiracies and conspiracy-theorists work. If you do something, that's proof of the conspiracy. If you don't do that something, that's proof the conspriacy is being covered up. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I mean, look at obinna. The guy basically thinks every series for the last ten years was rigged. It's ridiculous.

If things were rigged why wouldn't players like Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter get farther in the playoffs more often? Why wouldn't Kobe get past the first round for three years? They can't answer these questions.[/quote

When did I say that? You just proved yourself to be the biggest moron on this board. I haven't said anything is rigged. Don't misquote me.

I believe the Kings-Lakers in 02 was rigged. But the rest of the stuff I have said can be no better than atrocious officiating.

Do me a favor? How about you go back and watch those series and tell me what you see b/c you obviously didn't watch any of the series in question. Go read your boxscores and your game logs instead posting with people who actually watch the games.

[Farm Raid]

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Although, as mentioned, the years are wrong, your post is sound in theory. Why wouldn't they hype young teams up and create new dynasties and rivalries and stars? There's no reason at all why they wouldn't.

But that's how conspiracies and conspiracy-theorists work. If you do something, that's proof of the conspiracy. If you don't do that something, that's proof the conspriacy is being covered up. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. I mean, look at obinna. The guy basically thinks every series for the last ten years was rigged. It's ridiculous.

If things were rigged why wouldn't players like Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter get farther in the playoffs more often? Why wouldn't Kobe get past the first round for three years? They can't answer these questions.

When did I say that? You just proved yourself to be the biggest moron on this board. I haven't said anything is rigged. Don't misquote me.

I believe the Kings-Lakers in 02 was rigged. But the rest of the stuff I have said can be no better than atrocious officiating.

Also, don't flame me. Are you 13 or something?

Do me a favor? How about you go back and watch those series and tell me what you see b/c you obviously didn't watch any of the series in question. Go read your boxscores and your game logs instead posting with people who actually watch the games.

Do me a favor and understand the first three times I told you I saw the series and stop assuming anyone who doesn't agree with your asinine assumptions just didn't watch the games. Now get out of here.

[bullzman23]

I don't really recall the series too well, and am leaning towards the belief that NBA rigged games (well I definitely believe that game six against the Kings was fixed by someone), but to be honest I thought that Williams foul was pretty bad.

Even Walton and Snapper said that. In the Kings game you could hear them question the calls.

[Walt Cronkite]

Walt Cronkite if you didn't watch the series all those stats you are pointing gout are useless. I have strong reasons to believe you didn't watch the series. Anyone (and I mean ANYONE) who watched that series knows the ref were horrible at best. I know you think there is nothing going in the NBA but if you didn't watch the series you cannot comment.

Yes dude, 7 years ago, when I was a 15 year old HS Sophomore, I watched the Bucks/76ers series. I liked the Bucks. I found the 76ers boring. Larry Brown is boring. He also knows how to maximize his roster. They played solid defense without fouling, rebounded and got to the line A LOT.

In comparison, the Bucks fouled a TREMENDOUS amount and hardly ever got to the line. Over the course of 7 games, something has to give.

[Don Draper]

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Do me a favor and understand the first three times I told you I saw the series and stop assuming anyone who doesn't agree with your asinine assumptions just didn't watch the games. Now get out of here.

I'm conviced you never saw the series. If you can't even admit that it was horrible officiating then you didn't watch. Even my sister (who doesn't even care about basketball) knew something wasn't right. But I digress.

You didn't watch the series. Don't lie to make yourself look cool.

[Walt Cronkite]

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That street goes both ways. People who believe the conspiracy see it one way, the people who think everything is fine just see it the other way. So both sides justify to no end who is wrong or right. I want more info. I'm on the fence now. But it always felt like something was wrong with this series and the 2002 WCF's that had to be more than incompetent refereeing.

Also, looking purely at numbers is not a good way to judge a series. Also, flagrants do count as personal fouls so the 48 FT's more over the series is HUGE. Seriously, 48 free points (assuming they are made) over a series is a lot to overcome.

There as a 66 shot ft disparity. I brought up the 48 pf discrepancy b/c the Milwaukee poster or radio guy or whatever did a count and came up with 48 when the actual number was 43.

[Don Draper]

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Yes dude, 7 years ago, when I was a 15 year old HS Sophomore, I watched the Bucks/76ers series. I liked the Bucks. I found the 76ers boring. Larry Brown is boring. He also knows how to maximize his roster. They played solid defense without fouling, rebounded and got to the line A LOT.

In comparison, the Bucks fouled a TREMENDOUS amount and hardly ever got to the line. Over the course of 7 games, something has to give.

Glen Robinson never tried to get to the line? Sam Cassell wasn't trying to post them up. That series was so poorly officiated anyone could have seen it.

Also to Farm Boy or whatever your name is. I saw saying I never said every playoff series for the last 10 years was rigged show me where I said that?

Exactly.