Jokic is not the best in the world, and has been heavily overrated (NOW YOU CAN CHANGE VOTES)

[eyeatoma]

Was never peak EMbiid when he faced him. Healthy, and his final form, sorry.

No need to be sorry, Horford is just plain better than him.

Everyone knows it too, he’s Embiid’s daddy and even Embiid has come out and admitted it.

What about Marc Gasol? I always thought he was Embiid’s daddy.

Was Embiid an MVP candidate at that time?

[Sweet Serenity]

Until he does it against Embiid in the playoffs, there will always be an asterisk to his dominance.

The big Serbian has broken you. But credit to you for coming back into this thread.

Are we really going to give him credit for not taking accountability & just being in total denial ?

[reload141]

Until he does it against Embiid in the playoffs, there will always be an asterisk to his dominance.

The big Serbian has broken you. But credit to you for coming back into this thread.

Are we really going to give him credit for not taking accountability & just being in total denial ?

There’s no real point.

He knows he has lost, the best thing we can all do is honestly just appreciate Jokic’s greatness and move on.

There’s no stat being shared, no accolades being compared because Jokic is far and away ahead in all of them.

It’s just turning into a war of words.

[Boardbreaker]

Lmao until jokic beats a career loser that can’t get beyond the second round then none of what he’s doing matters. Can’t make this delusional bs up.

[Jabroni Lames]

Very true, the ones at the bottom tier of this list. All in all their are probably 30 bigs that played in the 90s that would be high level C’s in the 2020s

Which means about 10 would be high level in any given season. And that...that isn't insane.

94/95

Robinson
Shaq
Ewing
Malone
Hakeem (All top five in MVP voting, at this point in this years list you’d be naming a one dimensional player like Gobert)
Rodman
Kemp
Willis
Horace Grant
Vin Baker
Dale Davis
Mourning
Mutombo
Rick Smits
Chris Webber
Anthony Mason
Cliff Robinson

That’s 17 give or take, not withstanding honorable mentions. This is one year, spanning from 1990 to 2000 and I think we can easily find another 13 that would be high level bigs

When did we change the goalposts to add PFs? That was the whole point. Centers of yesteryear had a lot of stiffs who couldn’t stay on the floor today. Centers of today have the mobility of PFs of 90s and better. They are worse, not better, than today. Why are you even debating this? Just take the L man.

[michaelm]

Do you really wanna go there having in mind who do you root for?

Sorry I forgot that Gobert was injured every single time he played in the playoffs.

Why is Embiid always so badly injured in the 4th quarters and in the most important games?

Jokic might have trouble matching up with a unicorn as well, and his likelihood of encountering a healthy Embiid in a finals series which is the only time he can play an Eastern Conference player in the play-offs, is probably similar.

[Jadoogar]

I've been saying this since his first mvp. He's an incredible system player, but he lacks competitive fire and toughness to be an ATG player. His MVP as a 6 seed will be locked at as THE worst mvp season in history. It'll make the Rose and Nash wins seem unanimous.

Jokic is a guy that needs a superstar like Murray to make his game work. He can't take over without that second punch on the perimeter the way other ATGs could. Now that Murray has been exposed, so has Jokic. What's funny is that those really watching told you this year's ago when he only got the sixth seed without him.

To me he is the third best player in the NBA - Luka and Embiid are comfortably ahead of him. Last year he took advantage of an injured field, and a weakened conference in a transition year. He had Murray playing like a superstar and to his credit got it done. But his awards don't match his greatness and in a few years everyone will come around to what I'm saying here right now.

I wonder if this board will all say his MVP this year was phony if they lose to Minnesota, as they did with Embiid last year when he lost hurt in round 2? It's looking pretty bad, guy has no leadership. All time greats step up in these scenarios. Jokic has shown 0 fight or leadership, let alone good play.

How about now?

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[eyeatoma]

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[CodeBreaker]

I'm OP and I can't deny Jokic looking like the best player right now. If he wins the ring this year I'll admit hes an ATG and the best player in the world. Still a series and a half left though

He’s already the best player in the world. That is not up for debate.

Actually is, Embiid was on his way to a unanimous MVP, before he got hurt.

This is a ridiculous statement

[QingJames]

Yes I enjoyed it too

3rd the enjoying it.

Man is crying himself to sleep. You can genuinely see the desperate nature in some fans as their position gets harder and harder and harder to defend.

Nothing hard to defend. Jokic had a great game yes. He also did it against someone who has come up small in the playoffs, every single time he's showed up, even though he's won DPOY over and over again. All Jokic did was show up Gobert for the fraud that he is. Until he does it against Embiid in the playoffs, there will always be an asterisk to his dominance.

Also I'd say you've got your own problems to worry about. Least the Sixers have tons of capspace to revamp the roster. What moves do the Suns have?

Brother, Embiid is garbo. He choked and sucked like the rest of your pathetic team AGAIN. Embiid isn’t even a top 10 player in the world when it matters. You saw the truth clearly last year, what has possibly happened this year to convince you Embiid is sniffing Jokic’s basketball prowess? Delusional.

[WentzerWuver]

I've been saying this since his first mvp. He's an incredible system player, but he lacks competitive fire and toughness to be an ATG player. His MVP as a 6 seed will be locked at as THE worst mvp season in history. It'll make the Rose and Nash wins seem unanimous.

Jokic is a guy that needs a superstar like Murray to make his game work. He can't take over without that second punch on the perimeter the way other ATGs could. Now that Murray has been exposed, so has Jokic. What's funny is that those really watching told you this year's ago when he only got the sixth seed without him.

To me he is the third best player in the NBA - Luka and Embiid are comfortably ahead of him. Last year he took advantage of an injured field, and a weakened conference in a transition year. He had Murray playing like a superstar and to his credit got it done. But his awards don't match his greatness and in a few years everyone will come around to what I'm saying here right now.

You must be the same poster who claims the Joker is not HIM and also said the Joker is also your favorite player.

Maybe more players should be an incredible "system" player so they can have a better chance at winning a MVP Lol

[michaelm]

Starting centers in 1995-96

Atl Andrew Lang
Bos Eric Montross
Cha Matt Geiger/Robert Parish
Chi Luc Longley
Cle Michael Cage
Dal Lorenzo Williams
Den Dikembe Mutombo
Det Otis Thorpe
Gs Rony Seikaly
Hou Hakeem Olajuwon
Ind Rik Smits
Lac Brian Williams
Lal Vlade Divac
Mia Alonzo Mourning
Mil Benoit Benjamin
Min Tom Gugliotta?
NJ Shawn Bradley
NY Patrick Ewing
Orl Shaquille O’Neal
Phi Derrick Alston/Sharone Wright
Pho Hot Rod Williams
Por Chris Dudley
Sac Olden Polynice
SA David Robinson
Sea Ervin Johnson
Tor Oliver Miller
Utah Felton Spencer
Van Bryant Reeves
Was Georghe Muresan

So yeah. A lot of really talented guys at the top and some guys that would be hard pressed to make rosters today. Jokic would have been just fine in the 90’s.

Wanted to do post something very similar. Thanks for this. This 90's center talk sometimes just gets wild. For as many greats as we had, we had so many turds.

Hard to know how even the great centers of previous eras would have gone against Jokic since he is probably in a category of one as a player and none of them ever matched up against anyone like him. Someone said 7 foot 280 lb Larry Bird which is somewhat close to what he is imo.

[rapstarter]

Starting centers in 1995-96

Atl Andrew Lang
Bos Eric Montross
Cha Matt Geiger/Robert Parish
Chi Luc Longley
Cle Michael Cage
Dal Lorenzo Williams
Den Dikembe Mutombo
Det Otis Thorpe
Gs Rony Seikaly
Hou Hakeem Olajuwon
Ind Rik Smits
Lac Brian Williams
Lal Vlade Divac
Mia Alonzo Mourning
Mil Benoit Benjamin
Min Tom Gugliotta?
NJ Shawn Bradley
NY Patrick Ewing
Orl Shaquille O’Neal
Phi Derrick Alston/Sharone Wright
Pho Hot Rod Williams
Por Chris Dudley
Sac Olden Polynice
SA David Robinson
Sea Ervin Johnson
Tor Oliver Miller
Utah Felton Spencer
Van Bryant Reeves
Was Georghe Muresan

So yeah. A lot of really talented guys at the top and some guys that would be hard pressed to make rosters today. Jokic would have been just fine in the 90’s.

Wanted to do post something very similar. Thanks for this. This 90's center talk sometimes just gets wild. For as many greats as we had, we had so many turds.

Part of the reason for having turds is because they simply had to have some size to attempt to counter the greats at the top. Some of the turds of the 2020s would be just as ineffective against the better centers of the 90s. So it kind of goes both ways. That said, I think all these greats in the 90s and 20s would be more than fine in either era.

[p0peye]

Only thing keeping Embiid relevant is eyeatoma posting in Jokić topics.

[AleksandarN]

Yes I enjoyed it too

3rd the enjoying it.

Man is crying himself to sleep. You can genuinely see the desperate nature in some fans as their position gets harder and harder and harder to defend.

Until he does it against Embiid in the playoffs, there will always be an asterisk to his dominance.

That would mean Jokic has to be traded out East and catch Embiid before he gets eliminated in the second round. That would be a hard task.

[OverAndOut]

This is an all-time melt. Jokic has broken this dude. I wonder if he legitimately believes what he’s saying at this point?

The “playoffs are a farce” post made me nearly choke on my coffee. Of course Embiid’s biggest lover would call them a farce

[AleksandarN]

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Create a stopper for the “jokic stopper”.

I got one. It’s called the second round.

[Ice Man]

Never change GB. Never change.

[Bloodbather]

The big Serbian has broken you. But credit to you for coming back into this thread.

Are we really going to give him credit for not taking accountability & just being in total denial ?

There’s no real point.

He knows he has lost, the best thing we can all do is honestly just appreciate Jokic’s greatness and move on.

There’s no stat being shared, no accolades being compared because Jokic is far and away ahead in all of them.

It’s just turning into a war of words.

It's a hubris thing. It always is when the position you've been defending is so obviously refuted. You just clutch at straws, making yourself look more and more foolish instead of humbly accepting the fact that you were wrong.

The guy just needs to have some humility in order not to embarrass himself any further.

[Ice Man]

The guy just needs to have some humility in order not to embarrass himself any further.

Perhaps he's planning to run for office.