Jokic is not the best in the world, and has been heavily overrated (NOW YOU CAN CHANGE VOTES)

[Jadoogar]

How about now?

Sent from my KB2005 using RealGM mobile app

Yeah he stepped it up. I'm not sure why he isn't always this aggressive as a scorer.

Because he'd rather play the "right" way. .

Well considering the results, i don't think you can say his way is "wrong".
Do you people just expect him to never lose games?

[Bergmaniac]

This thread keeps on giving, this is why I love the General Board. People doubling down on their hot takes is so funny.

Jokic never took a team like the original LeBron Cavs to the finals. That was basically G league quality players and LeBron. Jokic could never.

This nonsense again. It was a great carry job by LeBron, but his Cavs weren't "basically G league quality players". Sure, they were very limited offensively, but it was a really excellent defensive team and LeBron back then wasn't quite the defensive player he was in his prime. Among his teammates were Ilgauskas, who was in the league for a total of 13 years and earned 125 mln. in salaries, Drew Gooden, who was in the league for 14 years, Larry Hughes, who spent 14 total years in the league and earned 85 mln. in total, Varejao, who was in the league for 14 years and earned 84 mln, etc. Even Sasha Pavlovic, the closest one to a "scrub" among their main rotation guys that year, was in the league for 10 years.

[Franco]

Honestly Sixers fans acting like there's still some kind of rivalry here is embarrassing

Eyeatoma vs Reality is the biggest rivalry since Bird vs Magic

[QPR]

The sad thing about eyeatoma, hardenASG13 and one_and_done is that they will come out of the woodwork when Jokic eventually loses in the future as most all time greats have done virtually outside of MJ in his 6 title run to say, "see I told you so!".

It's a non zero sum game but losing doesn't magically wipe away your past accomplishments.

Imo, I still think Lebron is second greatest player of all time but I don't believe I've seen Lebron do what Jokic us doing in the playoffs. Lebron needed hall of farmers to win his chips.

As amazing as the Denver Nuggets are as a team, I don't think these players are as talented individually as some of those Miami and Cleveland teams, especially with Murray coming back down to earth these playoffs.

It's sad some of us can't sit back and appreciate his greatness.

Jokic never took a team like the original LeBron Cavs to the finals. That was basically G league quality players and LeBron. Jokic could never.

LeBron was incredible but we're not exactly talking about a powerhouse Eastern conference that season. Detroit was the only other team that won more than 47 games.

[shi-woo]

I wonder if this board will all say his MVP this year was phony if they lose to Minnesota, as they did with Embiid last year when he lost hurt in round 2? It's looking pretty bad, guy has no leadership. All time greats step up in these scenarios. Jokic has shown 0 fight or leadership, let alone good play.

How about now?

Sent from my KB2005 using RealGM mobile app

Yeah he stepped it up. I'm not sure why he isn't always this aggressive as a scorer.

Because he focuses on getting others involved and maximizing their talents. He always wants his shooters to feel in rhythm and confident. You saw it with MPJ earlier and you're seeing it with Murray and KCP now. He is the epitome of Leaders Eat Last.

This guy literally has people comparing this cast of misfits to some of the greatest teams of all time that were staked with 1st ballot HoF's...We have people starting threads about Murray going #1 in a redraft and being a superstar, and AG being Shawn Marion these days.

It's crazy, the Pistons in 04 and Dirks Mavs in 11 are considered to be the great champions to win over stacked fields, and with the least star driven teams (Outside of Early Duncan, of course), and those rings are put on a pedestal for that reason.

That Pistons team had 5 All-Stars in their prime, one being the 4x DPoY. Okur at age 24 would make an AS game a few years later, and he was coming off the bench.

That Mavs team had 2 former MVP's, 2 former All-NBA players, A center that made All-NBA and won the DPoY the next year, best bench player of his generation and 6th man of the year in Terry, and were still without former in his prime All-Star sitting on the bench in Caron Butler. A Total of 5 ANBA players and 2 AS's.

Jokic makes these dudes look like those dudes, and i'm sure you're going to get some poster quoting me telling me off, which will prove the whole point Jokic is a system that makes everyone look 1-2 levels better than they actually are. It's really unprecedented and remarkable to watch.

[eyeatoma]

This thread keeps on giving, this is why I love the General Board. People doubling down on their hot takes is so funny.

Jokic never took a team like the original LeBron Cavs to the finals. That was basically G league quality players and LeBron. Jokic could never.

This nonsense again. It was a great carry job by LeBron, but his Cavs weren't "basically G league quality players". Sure, they were very limited offensively, but it was a really excellent defensive team and LeBron back then wasn't quite defensive player he was in his prime. Among his teammates were Ilgauskas, who was in the league for a total of 13 years and earned 125 mln. in salaries, Drew Gooden, who was in the league for 14 years, Larry Hughes, who spent 14 total years in the league and earned 85 mln. in total, Varejao, who was in the league for 14 years and earned 84 mln, etc. Even Sasha Pavlovic, the closest one to a "scrub" among their main rotation guys that year, was in the league for 10 years.

That team is worse than the Nuggets this year, last year, and the year that Jokic when to the WCF. You can throw accomplishments all you want, the only one who was a former all star was Ilguaskas, who was way past his prime. Well yeah they were a good defensive team, that's why the made the finals, but as you know you need to also score the ball, and facilitate.

[Fairview4Life]

This thread keeps on giving, this is why I love the General Board. People doubling down on their hot takes is so funny.

Jokic never took a team like the original LeBron Cavs to the finals. That was basically G league quality players and LeBron. Jokic could never.

This nonsense again. It was a great carry job by LeBron, but his Cavs weren't "basically G league quality players". Sure, they were very limited offensively, but it was a really excellent defensive team and LeBron back then wasn't quite defensive player he was in his prime. Among his teammates were Ilgauskas, who was in the league for a total of 13 years and earned 125 mln. in salaries, Drew Gooden, who was in the league for 14 years, Larry Hughes, who spent 14 total years in the league and earned 85 mln. in total, Varejao, who was in the league for 14 years and earned 84 mln, etc. Even Sasha Pavlovic, the closest one to a "scrub" among their main rotation guys that year, was in the league for 10 years.

That team is worse than the Nuggets this year, last year, and the year that Jokic when to the WCF. You can throw accomplishments all you want, the only one who was a former all star was Ilguaskas, who was way past his prime. Well yeah they were a good defensive team, that's why the made the finals, but as you know you need to also score the ball, and facilitate.

Could Lebron have taken that Cavs team to the finals in the west?

[Iwasawitness]

This thread keeps on giving, this is why I love the General Board. People doubling down on their hot takes is so funny.

Jokic never took a team like the original LeBron Cavs to the finals. That was basically G league quality players and LeBron. Jokic could never.

This nonsense again. It was a great carry job by LeBron, but his Cavs weren't "basically G league quality players". Sure, they were very limited offensively, but it was a really excellent defensive team and LeBron back then wasn't quite defensive player he was in his prime. Among his teammates were Ilgauskas, who was in the league for a total of 13 years and earned 125 mln. in salaries, Drew Gooden, who was in the league for 14 years, Larry Hughes, who spent 14 total years in the league and earned 85 mln. in total, Varejao, who was in the league for 14 years and earned 84 mln, etc. Even Sasha Pavlovic, the closest one to a "scrub" among their main rotation guys that year, was in the league for 10 years.

Let’s not pretend that those guys you just mentioned apart from big Z were quality players. With that said, if Jokic played in that East, he’d probably have a run to the finals too.

[MagicMatic]

This thread keeps on giving, this is why I love the General Board. People doubling down on their hot takes is so funny.

Jokic never took a team like the original LeBron Cavs to the finals. That was basically G league quality players and LeBron. Jokic could never.

This nonsense again. It was a great carry job by LeBron, but his Cavs weren't "basically G league quality players". Sure, they were very limited offensively, but it was a really excellent defensive team and LeBron back then wasn't quite defensive player he was in his prime. Among his teammates were Ilgauskas, who was in the league for a total of 13 years and earned 125 mln. in salaries, Drew Gooden, who was in the league for 14 years, Larry Hughes, who spent 14 total years in the league and earned 85 mln. in total, Varejao, who was in the league for 14 years and earned 84 mln, etc. Even Sasha Pavlovic, the closest one to a "scrub" among their main rotation guys that year, was in the league for 10 years.

That team is worse than the Nuggets this year, last year, and the year that Jokic when to the WCF. You can throw accomplishments all you want, the only one who was a former all star was Ilguaskas, who was way past his prime. Well yeah they were a good defensive team, that's why the made the finals, but as you know you need to also score the ball, and facilitate.

I like how the goalposts keep shifting every time Jokic proves people wrong with a game like last night.

Are you going to tell me Jokic isn’t great because things out of his control like team building benefit him as opposed to Lebron building teams and failing?

What does the greatness of Jokic have to do with Lebron anyway? He’s done this without the media blowing him hourly since he was 18.

[Ecmic]

Yeah he stepped it up. I'm not sure why he isn't always this aggressive as a scorer.

Because he'd rather play the "right" way. .

Well considering the results, i don't think you can say his way is "wrong".
Do you people just expect him to never lose games?

For context his highest scoring game in the Wolves series last year was a loss. His highest scoring game against the Suns was a loss. His highest scoring game against the Heat was a loss. And he shot 61% in those games.

I’d guess he views the cumulative effects of unlocking the four guys he’s playing with as greater than him being a singular, dominant scorer. But, you’d probably have to view the term “greater” though the metric of wins and losses, which I don’t think everyone does.

[Zadeh]

The sad thing about eyeatoma, hardenASG13 and one_and_done is that they will come out of the woodwork when Jokic eventually loses in the future as most all time greats have done virtually outside of MJ in his 6 title run to say, "see I told you so!".

It's a non zero sum game but losing doesn't magically wipe away your past accomplishments.

Imo, I still think Lebron is second greatest player of all time but I don't believe I've seen Lebron do what Jokic us doing in the playoffs. Lebron needed hall of farmers to win his chips.

As amazing as the Denver Nuggets are as a team, I don't think these players are as talented individually as some of those Miami and Cleveland teams, especially with Murray coming back down to earth these playoffs.

It's sad some of us can't sit back and appreciate his greatness.

Jokic never took a team like the original LeBron Cavs to the finals. That was basically G league quality players and LeBron. Jokic could never.

Original cavs has 22 ppg all defensive caliber player, who shrink with lebron as anybody else.
Original cavs has a center who is selected for all-star two years before.
Original cavs faced old pistons (53 no 1 seed) , worn nets(41) and washington(41) to the way of finals.
That year east historically bad, even pistons can't get in play-off in that year if they were playing in west.

[TunaFish]

I've been saying this since his first mvp. He's an incredible system player, but he lacks competitive fire and toughness to be an ATG player. His MVP as a 6 seed will be locked at as THE worst mvp season in history. It'll make the Rose and Nash wins seem unanimous.

Jokic is a guy that needs a superstar like Murray to make his game work. He can't take over without that second punch on the perimeter the way other ATGs could. Now that Murray has been exposed, so has Jokic. What's funny is that those really watching told you this year's ago when he only got the sixth seed without him.

To me he is the third best player in the NBA - Luka and Embiid are comfortably ahead of him. Last year he took advantage of an injured field, and a weakened conference in a transition year. He had Murray playing like a superstar and to his credit got it done. But his awards don't match his greatness and in a few years everyone will come around to what I'm saying here right now.

Wrong! Very wrong. More likely everyone will think you didn’t have a clue.

[eyeatoma]

This thread keeps on giving, this is why I love the General Board. People doubling down on their hot takes is so funny.


This nonsense again. It was a great carry job by LeBron, but his Cavs weren't "basically G league quality players". Sure, they were very limited offensively, but it was a really excellent defensive team and LeBron back then wasn't quite defensive player he was in his prime. Among his teammates were Ilgauskas, who was in the league for a total of 13 years and earned 125 mln. in salaries, Drew Gooden, who was in the league for 14 years, Larry Hughes, who spent 14 total years in the league and earned 85 mln. in total, Varejao, who was in the league for 14 years and earned 84 mln, etc. Even Sasha Pavlovic, the closest one to a "scrub" among their main rotation guys that year, was in the league for 10 years.

That team is worse than the Nuggets this year, last year, and the year that Jokic when to the WCF. You can throw accomplishments all you want, the only one who was a former all star was Ilguaskas, who was way past his prime. Well yeah they were a good defensive team, that's why the made the finals, but as you know you need to also score the ball, and facilitate.

I like how the goalposts keep shifting every time Jokic proves people wrong with a game like last night.

Are you going to tell me Jokic isn’t great because things out of his control like team building benefit him as opposed to Lebron building teams and failing?

What does the greatness of Jokic have to do with Lebron anyway? He’s done this without the media blowing him hourly since he was 18.

Because people are acting like LeBron couldn't carry and needed a superteam to win. Context matters, LeBron needed a superteam because there were superteams all around the league being assembled. Now there aren't any that actually are worth their salt. If there was, the Nuggets would lose. Jokic is dominant in an era when there is great parity.

[Infinite Llamas]

“Jokic should have an asterisk for never beating Embiid in the playoffs” is right up there with “pets to games” and “he piston himself” for all time most laughable posts here.

[Bergmaniac]

That team is worse than the Nuggets this year, last year, and the year that Jokic when to the WCF. You can throw accomplishments all you want, the only one who was a former all star was Ilguaskas, who was way past his prime. Well yeah they were a good defensive team, that's why the made the finals, but as you know you need to also score the ball, and facilitate.

Well, sure, but that's a completely different claim than that they were "basically G league quality players".

And it also shouldn't be ignored that the East was very weak that year, the Cavs beat two 41 wins teams which had negative SRS in the first two rounds.

[Cubbies2120]

This thread keeps on giving, this is why I love the General Board. People doubling down on their hot takes is so funny.

Jokic never took a team like the original LeBron Cavs to the finals. That was basically G league quality players and LeBron. Jokic could never.

This nonsense again. It was a great carry job by LeBron, but his Cavs weren't "basically G league quality players". Sure, they were very limited offensively, but it was a really excellent defensive team and LeBron back then wasn't quite defensive player he was in his prime. Among his teammates were Ilgauskas, who was in the league for a total of 13 years and earned 125 mln. in salaries, Drew Gooden, who was in the league for 14 years, Larry Hughes, who spent 14 total years in the league and earned 85 mln. in total, Varejao, who was in the league for 14 years and earned 84 mln, etc. Even Sasha Pavlovic, the closest one to a "scrub" among their main rotation guys that year, was in the league for 10 years.

That team is worse than the Nuggets this year, last year, and the year that Jokic when to the WCF. You can throw accomplishments all you want, the only one who was a former all star was Ilguaskas, who was way past his prime. Well yeah they were a good defensive team, that's why the made the finals, but as you know you need to also score the ball, and facilitate.

Why you sitting here hating? Go post some videos of Embiid working out with Drew Hanlan in an empty gym as he prepares to average 40ppg next season while playing an even greater percentage of his games against bum teams. (15/39 games played were against sub 27 win teams)

[Franco]

That team is worse than the Nuggets this year, last year, and the year that Jokic when to the WCF. You can throw accomplishments all you want, the only one who was a former all star was Ilguaskas, who was way past his prime. Well yeah they were a good defensive team, that's why the made the finals, but as you know you need to also score the ball, and facilitate.

I like how the goalposts keep shifting every time Jokic proves people wrong with a game like last night.

Are you going to tell me Jokic isn’t great because things out of his control like team building benefit him as opposed to Lebron building teams and failing?

What does the greatness of Jokic have to do with Lebron anyway? He’s done this without the media blowing him hourly since he was 18.

Because people are acting like LeBron couldn't carry and needed a superteam to win. Context matters, LeBron needed a superteam because there were superteams all around the league being assembled. Now there aren't any that actually are worth their salt. If there was, the Nuggets would lose. Jokic is dominant in an era when there is great parity.

I can only imagine how much less success Denver would have in an era of super teams...

They might, like, never make it past the second round with their MVP big man or something. Crazy to think about.

[Demagoog]

Why are you all replying so seriously? Just sit back and enjoy the mental breakdown.

[Cubbies2120]

“Jokic should have an asterisk for never beating Embiid in the playoffs” is right up there with “pets to games” and “he piston himself” for all time most laughable posts here.

He would beat Embiid in the playoffs if they’d meet up. Unfortunately Embiid has never been capable of making it out of the 2nd round and lost a series to perennial loser, Trae Young.

[Cubbies2120]

The sad thing about eyeatoma, hardenASG13 and one_and_done is that they will come out of the woodwork when Jokic eventually loses in the future as most all time greats have done virtually outside of MJ in his 6 title run to say, "see I told you so!".

It's a non zero sum game but losing doesn't magically wipe away your past accomplishments.

Imo, I still think Lebron is second greatest player of all time but I don't believe I've seen Lebron do what Jokic us doing in the playoffs. Lebron needed hall of farmers to win his chips.

As amazing as the Denver Nuggets are as a team, I don't think these players are as talented individually as some of those Miami and Cleveland teams, especially with Murray coming back down to earth these playoffs.

It's sad some of us can't sit back and appreciate his greatness.

Jokic never took a team like the original LeBron Cavs to the finals. That was basically G league quality players and LeBron. Jokic could never.

Original cavs has 22 ppg all defensive caliber player, who shrink with lebron as anybody else.
Original cavs has a center who is selected for all-star two years before.
Original cavs faced old pistons (53 no 1 seed) , worn nets(41) and washington(41) to the way of finals.
That year east historically bad, even pistons can't get in play-off in that year if they were playing in west.

Well at least eyeatoma has moved on to comparing Jokic to a top 2 player of all time...no longer mentioning him in the same breath as Embiid