I changed my mind, the Gobert trade was a win-win for both teams

[DonaldSanders]

I said at the time and still maintain that it was an overpay by one first. Regardless, the trade has absolutely been worth it.

I noticed you always showed up in every Gobert thread and stuck to your guns even in the face of a *lot* of heat in those threads. I thought it was an overpay by 2 1sts, but you might be right that it is indeed just one 1st of an overpay. I did think that Minnesota got overlooked in the playoffs, nobody gave all the injuries much credit (which they should have). As a Warrior fan I had Naz Reid PTSD, so perhaps I understood more than most.

Regardless, the Wolves have built a great team and Minnesota fans deserve it.

Kudos.

[GopherIt!]

Just Kessler, Vando and Keyonte George are worth more than 30+ y/o Gobert on more than max money, and they still owe 3 more 1sts and a swap.

That type of statement confirms you are biased thinking.

Kessler and Keyonte have looked good on a bad team. For Wolves, they wouldn’t have seen light of day. You wouldn’t even know their names.

If both players over career can help a team win - the exact thing Wolves needed and paid a premium for acquiring ‘just add water’ proven version in Gobert - then they can be determined good gets by Jazz. Right now, they are just proving to be not busts on a bad team.

Also, the “good on a bad team” argument has been used repeatedly to diminish Karl Towns value over the years despite his elite numbers. If the good numbers on a bad team doesn’t hold up for KAT, it certainly doesn’t hold up for WK.

[Inigo Montoya]

Question: If the Wolves go back to sucking again next season for whatever reason, will this trade still be a win-win?

[Mavrelous]

Just Kessler, Vando and Keyonte George are worth more than 30+ y/o Gobert on more than max money, and they still owe 3 more 1sts and a swap.

I don't think Kessler, George, and Vando are worth more than Gobert. Kessler is good, an adequate starting center at this point. George has some promise but is a bad NBA player at the moment. Vanderbilt is a nice linking piece, but is a backup.

Then we disgren his value, and i'm not in the minority given the reactions.
Gobert was a 30+ y/o on near supermax contract, he also had a lot of question marks about locker room issues and his team failed in the PO to reroduce the same dominance they had in RS.
I'm glad he's working out well, but the trade had huge risks as in what happened last year and they gave up near lottery 1st in a very deep draft.

[meekrab]

Just Kessler, Vando and Keyonte George are worth more than 30+ y/o Gobert on more than max money, and they still owe 3 more 1sts and a swap.

That type of statement confirms you are biased thinking.

Kessler and Keyonte have looked good on a bad team. For Wolves, they wouldn’t have seen light of day. You wouldn’t even know their names.

If both players over career can help a team win - the exact thing Wolves needed and paid a premium for acquiring ‘just add water’ proven version in Gobert - then they can be determined good gets by Jazz. Right now, they are just proving to be not busts on a bad team.

Also, the “good on a bad team” argument has been used repeatedly to diminish Karl Towns value over the years despite his elite numbers.

Also, Keyonte doesn't even look good, he's THT minus 4 years of proven sucking.

[GopherIt!]

You cannot be taken seriously by comparing box scores when it comes to Gobert

Teams will actively avoid going anywhere near him which, obviously, cuts down on his box score stats.

I'm sure that warrior fan would accept that Lebron is far superior to Curry based on thr massive gap in box score stats

It's not just Kessler vs Gobert it's Gobert vs the picks and other players.

PBev was the considered the biggest loss due to intangibles. JV is the best player and he is a low end r.s. rotation guy. Beas was a cancer. The other player was a throw in.

[Wolveswin]

Question: If the Wolves go back to sucking again next season for whatever reason, will this trade still be a win-win?

If the Wolves win a chip the following year, does it change yet again.

Bottom line is the knee jerk reaction (time of trade) was Wolves overpay and maybe tremendously overpaid. But that is because Wolves didn’t have a chance to realize any of their acquired value. Now they have.

What ever the future holds the pendulum will swing. This thread is simply asking the question with the pendulum swinging back - who knows where it ends up.

[babyjax13]

Just Kessler, Vando and Keyonte George are worth more than 30+ y/o Gobert on more than max money, and they still owe 3 more 1sts and a swap.

I don't think Kessler, George, and Vando are worth more than Gobert. Kessler is good, an adequate starting center at this point. George has some promise but is a bad NBA player at the moment. Vanderbilt is a nice linking piece, but is a backup.

Then we disgren his value, and i'm not in the minority given the reactions.
Gobert was a 30+ y/o on near supermax contract, he also had a lot of question marks about locker room issues and his team failed in the PO to reroduce the same dominance they had in RS.
I'm glad he's working out well, but the trade had huge risks as in what happened last year and they gave up near lottery 1st in a very deep draft.

The trade had risks, but most of the criticisms about Gobert in the playoffs was pretty dumb.

[Mavrelous]

I don't think Kessler, George, and Vando are worth more than Gobert. Kessler is good, an adequate starting center at this point. George has some promise but is a bad NBA player at the moment. Vanderbilt is a nice linking piece, but is a backup.

Then we disgren his value, and i'm not in the minority given the reactions.
Gobert was a 30+ y/o on near supermax contract, he also had a lot of question marks about locker room issues and his team failed in the PO to reroduce the same dominance they had in RS.
I'm glad he's working out well, but the trade had huge risks as in what happened last year and they gave up near lottery 1st in a very deep draft.

The trade had risks, but most of the criticisms about Gobert in the playoffs was pretty dumb.

Dumb or not, 21 Jazz were petty well constructed team and failed in the 2nd round against injured Clippers in spectacular fashion, and Gobert doesn't have any signature deep PO wins, for a 30+ y/o that should be reflected in the price tag.

[TMac Culloch]

The KAT Gobert team can win a lot of regular season games sure but playoff teams will exploit the 2 bigs in playoffs series

[babyjax13]

Then we disgren his value, and i'm not in the minority given the reactions.
Gobert was a 30+ y/o on near supermax contract, he also had a lot of question marks about locker room issues and his team failed in the PO to reroduce the same dominance they had in RS.
I'm glad he's working out well, but the trade had huge risks as in what happened last year and they gave up near lottery 1st in a very deep draft.

The trade had risks, but most of the criticisms about Gobert in the playoffs was pretty dumb.

Dumb or not, 21 Jazz were petty well constructed team and failed in the 2nd round against injured Clippers in spectacular fashion, and Gobert doesn't have any signature deep PO wins, for a 30+ y/o that should be reflected in the price tag.

They were not well constructed. I don't feel like having this conversation again, but we had the worst group of perimeter defenders of any playoff team I've ever seen. Ever. Worse than Young-Bogdanovic.

[Warriorfan]

I'm sure that warrior fan would accept that Lebron is far superior to Curry based on thr massive gap in box score stats

It's not just Kessler vs Gobert it's Gobert vs the picks and other players.

PBev was the considered the biggest loss due to intangibles. JV is the best player and he is a low end r.s. rotation guy. Beas was a cancer. The other player was a throw in.

Picks are valueable for a team that usually ends up in the lottery. A couple more losses last year the pick possibly gets Wemby was dealt.

Value of the trade will be gauged by what the picks turn into.

[hyper316]

Minnesota went all in and needs to win a ring in the next 5 years to justify trading away 5 years of picks/swap

[GopherIt!]

It's not just Kessler vs Gobert it's Gobert vs the picks and other players.

PBev was the considered the biggest loss due to intangibles. JV is the best player and he is a low end r.s. rotation guy. Beas was a cancer. The other player was a throw in.

Picks are valueable for a team that usually ends up in the lottery. A couple more losses last year the pick possibly gets Wemby was dealt.

Value of the trade will be gauged by what the picks turn into.

They we’re too good to be lotto bound. It was extreme bad luck that Kat missed the first 52g. Once he got healthy & they added Conley (& to a lesser extent NAW) they really started to gel. Contrary to common perception, Kat & Rudy gelled almost instantly.

Had Naz & Jaden been healthy, that Denver series would have been lit.

I agree, the key value will be the recently drafted players/picks. The 4 other players we’re not as valuable.

[thinktank]

And no, I wouldn't consider the Gobert trade to have paid off in year 1 simply because they somehow made the playoffs through the play-in tournament and got bounced in the first round. That's not why you give away so many assets, and your future.

It was only the second time in 34 years that the Wolves had made the playoffs in 2 consecutive seasons.

In 34 years, the Wolves had only led the Western Conference for a cumulative 10 days!

Even if the Wolves were just as successful as the Jazz of recent years, and not really contend for a championship, it would still be the best team of the last 20 years for this franchise.

The question is if such a team is worth sacrificing so much for, and if it should cost so much even at the cost of future success. Ironically, you'd probably have been better off without the trade. You'd have a promising rookie in Kessler, depth, trade assets, all your picks, cap flexibility, and you'd probably still be in contention to make the playoffs even last season. I'd consider the current state of affairs for the Wolves as a Pyrrhic victory, if that.

So we’d be a future #1 seed without the trade? That’s a guarantee with Kesssler? Cmon now. Pass it dude. I bet that **** good.

[thinktank]

Question: If the Wolves go back to sucking again next season for whatever reason, will this trade still be a win-win?

You have a lot of implausible hypotheticals that you use to evaluate this trade.

[F Saunders]

The KAT Gobert team can win a lot of regular season games sure but playoff teams will exploit the 2 bigs in playoffs series

Out of curiosity, which teams do you see exploiting them, and how do you see this happening?

The big concern with Gobert was the opponent going with a small, 5-out lineup, pulling him towards the perimeter and him not punishing the smaller defender.

With Towns and Gobert it's going to be extremely difficult to go small. And if teams try to go 5 out on offense, the Wolves have been going zone to counter (see the 2nd half vs. OKC).

[Harry Garris]

Just Kessler, Vando and Keyonte George are worth more than 30+ y/o Gobert on more than max money, and they still owe 3 more 1sts and a swap.

Kessler and Vando are decent rotation guys, we don't know yet with Keyonte George, and yeah Gobert's contract isn't great but he still makes a real defensive impact whenever he's on the court and to be honest that's just more valuable than any number of replaceable role guys.

If Keyonte becomes an all star level talent or if they draft a guy like that with one of the other Minnesota picks then you can make a case for the Jazz but I don't see a bunch of okay rotation guys ever being the winning side of the trade when you're sending out an actually impactful player.

[life_saver]

Having Naz also on roster gives Wolves lot of flexibility. Can also pair KAT with Naz when Gobert is struggling or when Wolves wanna try something different in playoffs depending on opposition

[Mavrelous]

Just Kessler, Vando and Keyonte George are worth more than 30+ y/o Gobert on more than max money, and they still owe 3 more 1sts and a swap.

Kessler and Vando are decent rotation guys, we don't know yet with Keyonte George, and yeah Gobert's contract isn't great but he still makes a real defensive impact whenever he's on the court and to be honest that's just more valuable than any number of replaceable role guys.

If Keyonte becomes an all star level talent or if they draft a guy like that with one of the other Minnesota picks then you can make a case for the Jazz but I don't see a bunch of okay rotation guys ever being the winning side of the trade when you're sending out an actually impactful player.

It isn't about Keyonte the player though, it's the 16th pick in deep draft, Wolves could've taken Whitmore there, or anyone else they liked.
Is Gobert at that age and on that contract worth mortgaging your future? Was there demand in the market for Gobert to pay this price? I personally think the answer is no, I don't think it was close.
Remember Wolves gave up the 7th pick in 21 draft to replace Wiggins with D'Lo, these trades backfire sometimes and risk is integral part to pricing, when they made that trade, they couldn't imagine it would've been this pick.
What's funny about the transactions that Cavs were in a better situation when they traded for Mitchell than Wolves trading for Gobert, and it looks the exact opposite now.