2nd Round: LA Lakers vs. Utah - Series LAL leads (2-0)

[dingojazz]

Jazz fans please do not bitch about calls! We will stoop to the level of Houston fans. The officiating was good the Lakers won game 1 fair and square.

[HarlemHeat37]

That should also mean that, since the Utah Jazz lead the league in fouls, should be so used it that they never complain either, right?

this point is funny..

the same thing happened with Suns fans in the 1st round(only a few of them though)..complaints about Shaq and Amare being in foul trouble in game 1(mostly legit fouls), ignoring the fact that both guys were tied for #2 in fouls per game during the regular season..

stats aren't everything, but some stats don't lie..

[erudite23]

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Cute theory. But how many rings does Utah and their "team" play have? How many rings does Kobe and Jordan have? Lebron beat Detroit last year in the playoffs. Detroit is possibly one of the best "team" playing offense and defense. Yet Lebron took them apart by himself. Superstars take over and find ways to win. It's been proven time and time again.

Also, the lakers are far removed from the Kobe show of the past 3 years. He has a competent team now whom love to pass the ball. The lakers average over 30 assists a game.

You just contradicted yourself.

On one hand you are trying to defend your point about a player who is unguardable being the ultimate deciding factor between winning and losing...and then you turn around and say "besides, the Lakers aren't just the Kobecentric team that they used to be".

Which is it?

The Lakers can/will win this series because they have more genuine weapons around Kobe. How far did he get them the last 3 years? He was no better than T-Mac. Now he gets a legit star big man for free, his bench rounds out and he's back in the mix.

Its about the team, not the player. Kobe can make the difference over a short stretch of game, but the law of averages will always catch up. He is a 46% shooter. So for every stretch where he catches fire and hits 10 of 12 shots, he will have another stretch where he shoots 2 of 14. Simple math. That's my point.

The fact that he has a team around him that can win without him dominating is what makes him so dangerous. He could be off for the first 44 minutes of a game, and his teammates could keep within striking distance so that he could get hot at the end and bring it home.

As for your examples, Jordan's Bulls were a great team, that rotated on defense and passed the ball extremely well. The Spurs are the best example of team ball. Pop has said on countless occassions that they patterned their system after the Utah Jazz, and its obvioius watching them play. Theyfunction based upon sharing the ball, getting good shots by finding the open man, and being selfless on both sides of the ball.

"Unguardability" is of relatively little consequence in the big scheme of things. The only way it comes into play is in a key moment here or there. Not over a 7 game marathon.

[eatyourchildren]

Its about the team, not the player. Kobe can make the difference over a short stretch of game, but the law of averages will always catch up. He is a 46% shooter. So for every stretch where he catches fire and hits 10 of 12 shots, he will have another stretch where he shoots 2 of 14. Simple math. That's my point.

This might be true if everytime Kobe shoots it's in an iso situation. But it's not. Your Jazz team, just like the Denver team has tilted its defense to stopping ONE man, and, as your fellow Jazz fans have found out, left shooters out on the wings completely open.

And in the situations where they stay home on the shooters and play Kobe straight up, he burns them with foul trouble. So yeah, maybe Kobe shoots 30% on double coverage, but he's also shooting 70% on single coverage. That's why even with his 46fg% he still shoots a 55TS% THAT's what his unguardability means.

[BiggMann]

That should also mean that, since the Utah Jazz lead the league in fouls, should be so used it that they never complain either, right?

Honestly bro... search all you want, i've been a Jazz fan my entire life and Jerry Sloan has been there for a majority of it. And I cant remember ONE time Jerry Sloan complained about calls. They're just stupid excuses, every game has a bad call here and there. Harpring def fouled Odom on that last second play, and Kobe wasn't even touched on his 3pt and one... i mean the list goes on and on. The arguement is ridiculous. Refs blow calls every day, but for the most part they all do a pretty good job considering the scrutiny of the job.


... My thoughts on game one. Too many mistakes by Utah, led to easy bucket for LA. LA played smart D, limited fouls, and created a LOT of turnovers. Boozer came out aggressive on offense but very lazy passing led to 6 turnovers in the 1st half. You cant get behind 19 points to the LA Kobe Bryants and think your going to come back. It just doesn't happen, Utah showed they have what it takes to make a run and play to LA's level.

I really hope LA thinks they've got this one in the bag, Utah is going to come out firing on Wednesday. We know this is our chance to steal one, we've got rest and two full days to game plan.

This is a very intese series, and i'm looking forward to every game (hopefully 7).

[tracey_nice]

^^The 3 point foul wasn't called on Kobe. For the very last time the foul was off the ball and I think Walton was the one who was sent to the line.

[isrred]

^^The 3 point foul wasn't called on Kobe. For the very last time the foul was off the ball and I think Walton was the one who was sent to the line.

I still dont agree with the foul on harpring against walton, but you are correct. Jazz fans, Walton went to the line on the three, not kobe

[eatyourchildren]

[quote="BiggMann"][/quote]

You make a good point. Since the Jazz organization from coaches to players didn't complain about the fouls, why should you guys?

[cocheesetim]

Karl Malone never, ever complained.

He did as soon as Phil Jackson became his coach. J/K

[eatyourchildren]

I love Phil's manipulation of the media. I can understand why you hate it.

Edit: yea, whining gets you 9 of them.

[BiggMann]

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why should you guys?

Its our duty as fans

Phil Jackson on the other hand was already complaining in his half time interview. I guess whining will get you championships.

[cocheesetim]

Here is the truth about the game. I am a Jazz fan and to all the other Jazz fans complaining about the refs, get over it. The Lakers out worked us in game 1. They had a week to prepared for the Jazz because our guys didn't finish off the Rockets like they should have.

The Jazz cut the lead to 4 in the 4th and then stopped hitting shots. The Jazz will be fine, they can get pretty much any shot they want against the Lakers and come next game I would imagine more will fall. This series goes at least 6 games and is far from over.

[BiggMann]

Lemme see... He destroyed us while in Chicago when we had our best team, now we're young and dangerous and there he is again. It's like an old girlfriend you just cant shake.

...Outside of Jerry Sloan, Phil is my fav coach. I love his Zen like approach to the game.

[Nate505]

I love Phil's manipulation of the media. I can understand why you hate it.

Edit: yea, whining gets you 9 of them.

And I thought it was Jordan and Shaq that got him 9 of them...

[BiggMann]

^^The 3 point foul wasn't called on Kobe. For the very last time the foul was off the ball and I think Walton was the one who was sent to the line.

Regardless.. that same bull **** call happened to us two or three times last series. that's a HUGE swing in momentum and points. Off the ball calls should either be side out or basket good, not and And one foul.

...but then again that is just my opinion, and considering the number of times its happened in the last two weeks you can see why i might be a little biased. As long as Matt Harpring (you know he played football) is apart of the utah jazz, off ball fouls are going to happen... it's just physics. His knees cant hold him up, so he's got to lean on people.

[tracey_nice]

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Regardless.. that same bull **** call happened to us two or three times last series. that's a HUGE swing in momentum and points. Off the ball calls should either be side out or basket good, not and And one foul.

...but then again that is just my opinion, and considering the number of times its happened in the last two weeks you can see why i might be a little biased. As long as Matt Harpring (you know he played football) is apart of the utah jazz, off ball fouls are going to happen... it's just physics. His knees cant hold him up, so he's got to lean on people.

Your a really bitter person aren't you?

And NO WAY, Harpring played football, all I can say is wow... just WOW.

[erudite23]

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This might be true if everytime Kobe shoots it's in an iso situation. But it's not. Your Jazz team, just like the Denver team has tilted its defense to stopping ONE man, and, as your fellow Jazz fans have found out, left shooters out on the wings completely open.

And in the situations where they stay home on the shooters and play Kobe straight up, he burns them with foul trouble. So yeah, maybe Kobe shoots 30% on double coverage, but he's also shooting 70% on single coverage. That's why even with his 46fg% he still shoots a 55TS% THAT's what his unguardability means.

The point is that over enough time, 46 out of every 100 shots that Kobe takes will go into the basket. For a team, that would be about average....no, the strength of having him is the opportunities that he creates for other players. BUT, if those other players can't convert, that doesn't mean much, either, does it?

The point is, basketball is a numbers game. You want shots that have a high success rate. The easier the shots you get, the more will go in, the more points you score. Simple. Bottom line is that Kobe doesn't get you high percentage shots over the long haul. His scoring numbers aren't that valuable in relation to the average success rates of most teams. Its the things that he opens up for everyone else that makes him so potent, in addition to his crunch time scoring.

This whole notion of how great a single player can be at scoring is so funny to me, when most of the time their success percentages is below the league average. It makes me laugh.

[isrred]

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Your a really bitter person aren't you?

And NO WAY, Harpring played football, all I can say is wow... just WOW.

Ask greg bolerjack, he will be MORE Than happy to tell you.....

[semi-sentient]

Its our duty as fans

Phil Jackson on the other hand was already complaining in his half time interview. I guess whining will get you championships.

It was the 4th quarter interview, and I'm pretty sure he complained due to the blatant foul on Odom at the end of the 3rd that went uncalled, which happened right in front of the Lakers bench and an official.

[bballmaniac27]

hmmm I distinctly remember Jazz fans calling us whiners for complaining about calls. Funny how they're doing the same thing now that the tables have turned.