Was the Bucks-Sixers 2001 ECF series also rigged?

Post #81 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:39 pm

Glen Robinson averaged 4 ftas a game for the season. The highest on the team. For the season. Mutombo averaged more than that, Iverson more than double.

Post #82 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:41 pm

There is an incredible difference between poor officiating and a rigged series. Go read my post in the player reaction thread to see my feelings on officiating.

Farm Raid · Post #83 » by **Farm Raid** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:51 pm

obinna wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I'm conviced you never saw the series. If you can't even admit that it was horrible officiating then you didn't watch. Even my sister (who doesn't even care about basketball) knew something wasn't right. But I digress.

You didn't watch the series. Don't lie to make yourself look cool.

NO, you didn't watch the series!! :rofl:

We could go all day, except I was at the University of Wisconsin @ Madison while the series was taking place. 90% of everyone there was cheering for the Bucks and I remember all the girls who didn't know **** about basketball were cheering for the Sixers cause they thought AI was cute.

GTFO with "you didn't watch the series". You don't know me, don't call me a liar. Go **** yourself.

Don Draper · Post #84 » by **Don Draper** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:55 pm

Farm Raid wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

NO, you didn't watch the series!!

We could go all day, except I was at the University of Wisconsin @ Madison while the series was taking place. 90% of everyone there was cheering for the Bucks and I remember all the girls who didn't know **** about basketball were cheering for the Sixers cause they thought AI was cute.

GTFO with "you didn't watch the series". You don't know me, don't call me a liar. Go **** yourself.

"Don't flame me" :rofl:

Farm Raid · Post #85 » by **Farm Raid** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:56 pm

You don't call grown men liars unless you like to get the **** slapped out of you, rule of thumb. Try to use that when you grow up, kid.

mbucks22 · Post #86 » by **mbucks22** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:00 am

Farm Raid wrote:You don't call grown men liars unless you like to get the **** slapped out of you, rule of thumb. Try to use that when you grow up, kid.

Oh noes, teh interwebz threatsz!!! IZ ON NOWWW!!!

But yeah, that series had some of the worst officiating I've ever seen. Anyone that thinks the Sixers "won fair and square" needs to take off the David Stern autographed rosy glasses.

Don Draper · Post #87 » by **Don Draper** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:01 am

Farm Raid wrote:You don't call grown men liars unless you like to get the **** slapped out of you, rule of thumb. Try to use that when you grow up, kid.

1) You are on the internet. Unless some new technology has been invented, im pretty sure you will never slap me. Internet threats

2) This is RealGM not fight club. Please try to stay on topic

:wavefinger:

Post #88 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:20 am

I'm still waiting for an OT retort, Obinna... please try to stay on topic.

Farm Raid · Post #89 » by **Farm Raid** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:40 am

obinna wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

1) You are on the internet. Unless some new technology has been invented, im pretty sure you will never slap me. Internet threats

2) This is RealGM not fight club. Please try to stay on topic

No, that was a tip not to say things like that to people's faces...although I'm sure you don't. In fact, I know you don't have the balls to.

See how fun assumptions are?

Don Draper · Post #90 » by **Don Draper** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:56 am

Walt Cronkite wrote:Glen Robinson averaged 4 ftas a game for the season. The highest on the team. For the season. Mutombo averaged more than that, Iverson more than double.

I swear to you the Bucks tried to be aggresive but they weren't getting the same calls

My thing is this. If refs don't want to call too many fouls, thats fine. If refs want to call alot of fouls that is also fine. But when refs call the game different for two teams I think it undermines the integrity of the game.

So did the refs look at the season stats and say since this was the trend for the season we this is how it will be in the playoffs. I get you point but this is the NBA, Karl saw that a tried to make adjustments. But it seemed to me the refs were intent on calling the game a certain way...

Also the league has been plagued with bad officiating for a while now. What doesn't Stern ever make any significant attempts to hold the refs accountable? Seems odd to me.

Manocad · Post #91 » by **Manocad** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:15 am

Why stop here? Let's review the 1972 Lakers-Knicks Final. Some pretty shaky material right there, I tell ya.

Post #92 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:00 am

[quote="obinna"][/quote]

4 ptapg over the course of a season was down a full ft from the year before, but at his ft drawing peak he was only getting 6.7 p/g. Since 00-01 was also the first year that his ppg also fell substantially, I find it much more likely that Vin physically lost a step than "THE SERIES--IT'S RIGGED!"

So Karl sees the trend and adjusts but the point of my long statistical analysis, was that the numbers over the course of the season didn't fluctuate. I understand that you would prefer to think that this is a case of the refs being singleminded and calling the game only one way, but I think this is an irrational explanation to the more likely solution.

The finesse Bucks were outmanned by the physical front court of Philadelphia. This is a matchup problem. Karl can try to adjust, but if his best scoring low post player is Vin Baker but he's too slow to get past Jumaine Jones and Tyrone Hill and when he does he's met at the basket where Dikembe is waiting (because he can cheat off of Ervin Johnson and Scott Williams since they suck)...you're going to have problems.

The league came out and said the wrong call was made at the end of the Spurs/Lakers game and that Barry was fouled. I don't think they've ever really done that before. It's too late, maybe instant replay in crucial moments of the game makes it a foul on the floor? I don't really know what the solution is, though I will agree with you 100% if your argument is that the NBA officiating needs to set some type of standard and stick to it consistently. Not if you're going to debate the potential rigging of the series though.

Post #93 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:00 am

Manocad wrote:Why stop here? Let's review the 1972 Lakers-Knicks Final. Some pretty shaky material right there, I tell ya.

SPOON!!

Don Draper · Post #94 » by **Don Draper** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:48 am

Walt Cronkite wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

4 ptapg over the course of a season was down a full ft from the year before, but at his ft drawing peak he was only getting 6.7 p/g. Since 00-01 was also the first year that his ppg also fell substantially, I find it much more likely that Vin physically lost a step than "THE SERIES--IT'S RIGGED!"

So Karl sees the trend and adjusts but the point of my long statistical analysis, was that the numbers over the course of the season didn't fluctuate. I understand that you would prefer to think that this is a case of the refs being singleminded and calling the game only one way, but I think this is an irrational explanation to the more likely solution.

The finesse Bucks were outmanned by the physical front court of Philadelphia. This is a matchup problem. Karl can try to adjust, but if his best scoring low post player is Vin Baker but he's too slow to get past Jumaine Jones and Tyrone Hill and when he does he's met at the basket where Dikembe is waiting (because he can cheat off of Ervin Johnson and Scott Williams since they suck)...you're going to have problems.

The league came out and said the wrong call was made at the end of the Spurs/Lakers game and that Barry was fouled. I don't think they've ever really done that before. It's too late, maybe instant replay in crucial moments of the game makes it a foul on the floor? I don't really know what the solution is, though I will agree with you 100% if your argument is that the NBA officiating needs to set some type of standard and stick to it consistently. Not if you're going to debate the potential rigging of the series though.

I don't know what Vin Baker has to do with this but okay. The only way to settle this is to look at the actual game footage. You cannot just base fouls off of stats. Especially in a playoff series.

You are basing your argument on the law of averages. Which is a fallacy. You are making the assumption that because something hold true for 82 games it translates to a 7 games series. Not the case dude.

But the number of fouls is not the argument. Number of free throws is not the argument. It is the type of calls that were made. If you show me game footage on the contrary then okay.

Manocad · Post #95 » by **Manocad** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:54 am

Walt Cronkite wrote:SPOON!!

Damn straight. I've got all the original comic books.

Post #96 » by **Walt Cronkite** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:55 am

obinna wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

I don't know what Vin Baker has to do with this but okay. The only way to settle this is to look at the actual game footage. You cannot just base fouls off of stats. Especially in a playoff series.

You are basing your argument on the law of averages. Which is a fallacy. You are making the assumption that because something hold true for 82 games it translates to a 7 games series. Not the case dude.

But the number of fouls is not the argument. Number of free throws is not the argument. It is the type of calls that were made. If you show me game footage on the contrary then okay.

Sorry, I meant Glen Robinson.

But no, I'm not going to watch a series from 7 years ago. There are inconsistencies in every basketball game that's ever been officiated, but I have looked at every video posted in this thread.

The Scott Williams foul on Iverson was definitely a foul. Did Williams MEAN to hit AI in the face with his elbow? IDK, probably not, but it happened.

The lane violation is CLEARLY a lane violation. Should it have not been called because it was a 3 point game in the last two minutes? Are you serious?

Glen Robinson driving to the hole gets the ball slapped away by Eric Snow. He does not "get hammered" as Jim Rome infers. Does Snow foul him on the wrist? Maybe, but if he hits his hand instead of the wrist, then it's not a foul, so it's a pretty big judgement call.

adjacent2bench · Post #97 » by **adjacent2bench** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:44 am

Yo Obinna...Kedu lol...fellow Nigerian American here...

Don Draper · Post #98 » by **Don Draper** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:58 am

adjacent2bench wrote:Yo Obinna...Kedu lol...fellow Nigerian American here...

Odinma

ghostmno · Post #99 » by **ghostmno** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 6:02 am

sixers won fair and square, get over it gentlemen, the sixers defense speaks for itself, larry brown knows what hes doing, he came back in 04 with some better talent and smashed LA, the 2001 ecf were not rigged, goodnight

BobbyLight · Post #100 » by **BobbyLight** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:59 pm

Walt Cronkite wrote:-= original quote snipped =-

The Scott Williams foul on Iverson was definitely a foul. Did Williams MEAN to hit AI in the face with his elbow? IDK, probably not, but it happened.

So your saying it shouldn't have been upgraded to a flagrant 2 which cost Williams game 7? Becuase that was the worst issue to the entire series. Iverson threw himself into Williams and that somehow ends up in Williams getting a flagrant 2. How does that make sense or seem fair?

Also, you can go into stats all day long, but unless you watch it (it's melted into my brian) you aren't going to really know what happened. The Bucks were very agressive the entire series and they did not get the calls. It was like both teams were being officiated completely differently.