Jokic is not the best in the world, and has been heavily overrated (NOW YOU CAN CHANGE VOTES)

famicommander · Post #821 » by **famicommander** » Thu May 16, 2024 12:40 am

He's underrated.

He's a 3X MVP, should be a 4X MVP.

CobraCommander · Post #822 » by **CobraCommander** » Thu May 16, 2024 1:35 am

When Edward’s talks about Jokic it gives me hope that Edward’s understands how much better he has to get to ascend to the top of the league

NZB2323 · Post #823 » by **NZB2323** » Thu May 16, 2024 3:14 am

UglyBugBall wrote:
NZB2323 wrote:
UglyBugBall wrote:I'm OP and I can't deny Jokic looking like the best player right now. If he wins the ring this year I'll admit hes an ATG and the best player in the world. Still a series and a half left though

You said Luka and Embiid were better than him. Luka missed the play in tournament last year, Embiid still hasn’t made the conference finals, and Jokic won it all last year, becoming the first player to lead the playoffs in points, rebounds, and assists.

You were proven wrong before you ever created this thread.

Healthy Luka and Embiid are at least equal to Joker. If he wins this title then he will have earned an edge

Jokic: 3 MVPs, 1 Finals MVP, 1 Championship, 2 CF appearances, 67th all time in win shares, 48th all time in playoff win shares

Embiid: 1 MVP, 0 Finals MVPs, 0 championships, 0 CF appearances, not in the top 250 for WS, 211th in playoff win shares

Luka: 0 MVPs, 0 finals MVPs, 0 championships, 1 CF appearances, not in the top 250 for WS or playoff WS

Lakers824 · Post #824 » by **Lakers824** » Thu May 16, 2024 4:08 am

web123888 wrote:He’s not the best player in the world - he’s arguably the best center in the history of the sport.

His peak is arguably higher than that of Bird, Magic, Shaq and dare I say LeBron as well.

I never viewed LeBron as an unguardable offensive player - Jokic is an unguardable offensive force with zero holes on that end of the floor.

He's more than better than them just offensively. He's better than them period. His offensive disparity is so large that it more than makes up for his relative defensive disadvantage.

It's all about accolades and titles now. MVPs. FMVPs. More seasons leading the league in advanced metrics.

eyeatoma · Post #825 » by **eyeatoma** » Thu May 16, 2024 5:36 am

famicommander wrote:He's underrated.

He's a 3X MVP, should be a 4X MVP.

If we're in fantasy land, then he could very well have a single MVP.

Woodsanity · Post #826 » by **Woodsanity** » Thu May 16, 2024 5:48 am

eyeatoma wrote:
famicommander wrote:He's underrated.

He's a 3X MVP, should be a 4X MVP.

If we're in fantasy land, then he could very well have a single MVP.

If were in fantasy land then embiid would have be relevant after regular season was over.

famicommander · Post #827 » by **famicommander** » Thu May 16, 2024 5:54 am

eyeatoma wrote:
famicommander wrote:He's underrated.

He's a 3X MVP, should be a 4X MVP.

If we're in fantasy land, then he could very well have a single MVP.

He has led the NBA in BPM, VORP, WS/48, and PER for the last 4 seasons in a row.

Only Kareem, Jordan, LeBron, and Jokic have done that.

eyeatoma · Post #828 » by **eyeatoma** » Thu May 16, 2024 5:58 am

famicommander wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
famicommander wrote:He's underrated.

He's a 3X MVP, should be a 4X MVP.

If we're in fantasy land, then he could very well have a single MVP.

He has led the NBA in BPM, VORP, WS/48, and PER for the last 4 seasons in a row.

Only Kareem, Jordan, LeBron, and Jokic have done that.

More stats vomiting.

Embiid was destroying the PER record this year, and was leading in EPM by a sizeable margin.

Sgt Major · Post #829 » by **Sgt Major** » Thu May 16, 2024 6:02 am

...Against Detroit, Washington and San Antonio.

Jokic had 3 FGA against Detroit.

eyeatoma · Post #830 » by **eyeatoma** » Thu May 16, 2024 6:03 am

Sgt Major wrote:...Against Detroit, Washington and San Antonio.

Jokic had 3 FGA against Detroit.

He destroyed the best defenses in the league this season. OKC/Minny/Orlando/Boston

Don't let a good story get in the way of facts though.

famicommander · Post #831 » by **famicommander** » Thu May 16, 2024 6:34 am

eyeatoma wrote:
famicommander wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
If we're in fantasy land, then he could very well have a single MVP.

He has led the NBA in BPM, VORP, WS/48, and PER for the last 4 seasons in a row.

Only Kareem, Jordan, LeBron, and Jokic have done that.

More stats vomiting.

Embiid was destroying the PER record this year, and was leading in EPM by a sizeable margin.

Embiid's season was fraudulent for 3 reasons:
1. He played almost 40% of his games against teams that won 27 games or fewer
2. He played over 62% of his games at home
3. He re-entered multiple blowouts late specifically to stat pad his 30/10 streak, and that's how he ended up hurting himself multiple times.

And, again, in case you forgot... you have to actually play something resembling a full season to qualify as a stat leader. So cling to that heavily padded, home-slanted, garbage-team-slanted, less-than-half-season sample size as the fact that Jokic has 3 MVPs and is still playing keeps you awake at night.

Embiid leads the league in hypothetical MVPs and hypothetical championships for sure, though. Hang all them hypothetical banners.

One Last Shot · Post #832 » by **One Last Shot** » Thu May 16, 2024 7:34 am

Jokic got it all. Looks, skills, charisma etc.

Read on Twitter

UglyBugBall · Post #833 » by **UglyBugBall** » Thu May 16, 2024 7:36 am

Cubbies2120 wrote:
UglyBugBall wrote:
NZB2323 wrote:
You said Luka and Embiid were better than him. Luka missed the play in tournament last year, Embiid still hasn’t made the conference finals, and Jokic won it all last year, becoming the first player to lead the playoffs in points, rebounds, and assists.

You were proven wrong before you ever created this thread.

Healthy Luka and Embiid are at least equal to Joker. If he wins this title then he will have earned an edge

Haha yes, he'll definitely need 2 titles to "earn an edge". Let's ignore the fact that Luka/Embiid are injured because they are lazy and don't take care of their bodies like Jokic does.

Plus, Jokic's performances in the playoffs are in a tier of their own and neither Doncic nor Embiid have any all-time great games like the one he had last night or for most of last season's playoffs (30/14/10 over 20 games).

I think any non-casual can come to an agreement that right now it's Jokic's world and we're all living in it.

We don't need to have silly discussions about whether he's better than Embiid or Doncic (hint: he is), but rather we need to discuss where he belongs on the pantheon of the GOATs.

Luka has the highest PPG in playoff history. He has many better performances than Jokic. In the playoffs this isn't even a discussion, Luka is simply better.

UglyBugBall · Post #834 » by **UglyBugBall** » Thu May 16, 2024 7:37 am

dautjazz wrote:
UglyBugBall wrote:
Los_29 wrote:
Embiid will never win another MVP again after the robbery last year.

How are you going to argue Jokic over Embiid last year?
Seriously? 24.5ppg 9.8apg 11.8rpg .701 TS%, and not to mention led his team to a title.

Sent from my SM-S921U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Obviously he was better in the playoffs, but we're talking regular season MVP here. Jokic didn't really have a case over embiid who led the league in scoring by a lot.

BelgradeNugget · Post #835 » by **BelgradeNugget** » Thu May 16, 2024 8:29 am

UglyBugBall wrote:
Luka has the highest PPG in playoff history. He has many better performances than Jokic. In the playoffs this isn't even a discussion, Luka is simply better.

UglyBugBall wrote:
Obviously he was better in the playoffs, but we're talking regular season MVP here. Jokic didn't really have a case over embiid who led the league in scoring by a lot.

Man, for you the best thing is to take a pause from posting here, and come back when you turn 13.

CodeBreaker · Post #836 » by **CodeBreaker** » Thu May 16, 2024 8:45 am

UglyBugBall wrote:
dautjazz wrote:
UglyBugBall wrote:
How are you going to argue Jokic over Embiid last year?
Seriously? 24.5ppg 9.8apg 11.8rpg .701 TS%, and not to mention led his team to a title.

Sent from my SM-S921U using RealGM Forums mobile app

Obviously he was better in the playoffs, but we're talking regular season MVP here. Jokic didn't really have a case over embiid who led the league in scoring by a lot.

Brunson sent your MVP home, think about that

Sgt Major · Post #837 » by **Sgt Major** » Thu May 16, 2024 8:51 am

eyeatoma wrote:
Sgt Major wrote:...Against Detroit, Washington and San Antonio.

Jokic had 3 FGA against Detroit.

He destroyed the best defenses in the league this season. OKC/Minny/Orlando/Boston

Don't let a good story get in the way of facts though.

Your whole story is based on what if Embiid was ever healthy and you're talking about facts?

eyeatoma · Post #838 » by **eyeatoma** » Thu May 16, 2024 8:59 am

Sgt Major wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Sgt Major wrote:...Against Detroit, Washington and San Antonio.

Jokic had 3 FGA against Detroit.

He destroyed the best defenses in the league this season. OKC/Minny/Orlando/Boston

Don't let a good story get in the way of facts though.

Your whole story is based on what if Embiid was ever healthy and you're talking about facts?

So you have no actual reply to me countering your statement saying he was only good against weak teams. Carry on.

kveble · Post #839 » by **kveble** » Thu May 16, 2024 9:31 am

eyeatoma wrote:
Sgt Major wrote:...Against Detroit, Washington and San Antonio.

Jokic had 3 FGA against Detroit.

He destroyed the best defenses in the league this season. OKC/Minny/Orlando/Boston

Don't let a good story get in the way of facts though.

He only destroyed himself by flopping for calls.
Let's see him do something meaningful in playoffs and then we can talk.

He definitely has the potential to be the best best player in the league, but until he actually lives to his potential, he's just a flopper and a loser.

Sgt Major · Post #840 » by **Sgt Major** » Thu May 16, 2024 10:02 am

eyeatoma wrote:
Sgt Major wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
He destroyed the best defenses in the league this season. OKC/Minny/Orlando/Boston

Don't let a good story get in the way of facts though.

Your whole story is based on what if Embiid was ever healthy and you're talking about facts?

So you have no actual reply to me countering your statement saying he was only good against weak teams. Carry on.

It's pointless, you don't care about facts.

Has Jokic been overrated?