Shams: LeBron wins tournament MVP

[MavsDirk41]

How many finals mvps does Nash have?

How many regular season MVP does Wade have?

How many all defensive teams does Nash have?

06 Wade in the finals
35/8/4 with 3 steals a game

Nash is my second favorite player to watch behind Bird but you really want to go there?

[Homer38]

How many finals mvps does Nash have?

How many regular season MVP does Wade have?

How many all defensive teams does Nash have?

06 Wade in the finals
35/8/4 with 3 steals a game

Nash is my second favorite player to watch behind Bird but you really want to go there?

Wade was better of course but Nash is still a 2 time MVP so this is not like the difference is crazy...Like I think Wade is 25-30 all-time and Nash is between 30-40 all-time

[Heej]

Wilt Chamberain- 0 career blocks
Adam Morrison- 12 career blocks

Should Wilt be penalized for something that didn’t exist in his era?

Jordan should be penalized for not even being good enough to win an NBA Cup MVP at this age

NBA Cup lol? That sounds so awesome….where can i buy one of those?

If your favorite player never won an NBA Cup just say that. Couldn't be me

[infinite11285]

2011 nba finals
Wade 27/7/5
Dirk 26/10/2
Bosh 19/7
Terry 18/3/2
James 17/7/7


Damn…never gets old seeing this

Using a series from almost 13 years ago to belittle current relevance and a career of sheer basketball brilliance since then is not the burn you think it is. Post LeBron's averages in each NBA Finals since the 2011 series, and you'll see just how absurd your argument is.

Moreover, for a poster who claimed that the IST didn't mean anything, your presence and use of outdated information in every LeBron-related thread to undermine recent events is quite telling.

[MavsDirk41]

Wtf, I didnt say you were making up the stats, I just used the same categories you used to prove how much better Jordan was over Pippen, lol.
Even though I dont know here you got that Jordan had better DRtg than Pippen, that seems made up.

Pippen is one of the greatest 2 way players to ever play but the Bulls were 24-11 in 97/98 without Pippen.

[MavsDirk41]

LeBron also bounced back big time after 2011!

For the teammates, the Bulls had a 55 wins caliber team even without Jordan and they proved that in 1994, I guess Jordan was just lucky to have had a front office that gave him such a good supporting cast!

Imagine if they would have had a Luke Jackson caliber player instead of Pippen or let a player of Boozer's caliber leave for nothing after your rookie season, I don't think Jordan would have been happy with this...James deserves credit for never asking for a trade in the first 7 years

The Bulls just won 3 straight championships lol. They were a great team because they had cohesion, everybody knew their role, and they had a great coaching staff. They were 34-31 the next year before Jordan came back and they finished something like 13-4. They overachieved in 94 but credit to them! You also underestimate the triangle offense that Tex implemented which focused on ball movement and getting quality shots. Not just one guy having to control the offense when he is out there. Jackson transformed the Bulls and Jordan in particular. Less hero ball and more trusting his teammates. Jackson got the most out of everybody on the team.

James could have stayed with Spo and Riley in Miami. Both are two of the best ever at their job. Why leave? I never said James doesn’t deserve credit for not demanding a trade, but Jordan stuck with Pippen and it took Pippen 3 years to become an allatar. Did you watch Pippen his first couple years in the nba? He didnt look like a future HOF player.

Again,it was very important for James to win a title in Cleveland....LBJ did not leave Miami because the heat were horrible since it was not the case

Ok man i dont believe that at all

[Homer38]

The Bulls just won 3 straight championships lol. They were a great team because they had cohesion, everybody knew their role, and they had a great coaching staff. They were 34-31 the next year before Jordan came back and they finished something like 13-4. They overachieved in 94 but credit to them! You also underestimate the triangle offense that Tex implemented which focused on ball movement and getting quality shots. Not just one guy having to control the offense when he is out there. Jackson transformed the Bulls and Jordan in particular. Less hero ball and more trusting his teammates. Jackson got the most out of everybody on the team.

James could have stayed with Spo and Riley in Miami. Both are two of the best ever at their job. Why leave? I never said James doesn’t deserve credit for not demanding a trade, but Jordan stuck with Pippen and it took Pippen 3 years to become an allatar. Did you watch Pippen his first couple years in the nba? He didnt look like a future HOF player.

Again,it was very important for James to win a title in Cleveland....LBJ did not leave Miami because the heat were horrible since it was not the case

Ok man i dont believe that at all

C'mon

[CzBoobie]

Wtf, I didnt say you were making up the stats, I just used the same categories you used to prove how much better Jordan was over Pippen, lol.
Even though I dont know here you got that Jordan had better DRtg than Pippen, that seems made up.

Pippen is one of the greatest 2 way players to ever play but the Bulls were 24-11 in 97/98 without Pippen.

Thats pretty random observation considering we were talking about 96 Finals.
Like in 93/94 they were 55-27 without Jordan, lol.

[MavsDirk41]

How many regular season MVP does Wade have?

How many all defensive teams does Nash have?

06 Wade in the finals
35/8/4 with 3 steals a game

Nash is my second favorite player to watch behind Bird but you really want to go there?

Wade was better of course but Nash is still a 2 time MVP so this is not like the difference is crazy...Like I think Wade is 25-30 all-time and Nash is between 30-40 all-time

Nash is certainly a HOF player and deserved his 2 mvp awards regardless of what anybody says. But, Wade was probably the best player in the nba in 2006 and was capable of carrying a team to the nba finals. He was the best player in the 06 finals and arguably in the 11 finals. Wade is 20-25 at worst probably.

[MavsDirk41]

Wtf, I didnt say you were making up the stats, I just used the same categories you used to prove how much better Jordan was over Pippen, lol.
Even though I dont know here you got that Jordan had better DRtg than Pippen, that seems made up.

Pippen is one of the greatest 2 way players to ever play but the Bulls were 24-11 in 97/98 without Pippen.

Thats pretty random observation considering we were talking about 96 Finals.
Like in 93/94 they were 55-27 without Jordan, lol.

My man if you think Kemp was better than Jordan in the 96 finals that is your opinion….if you were old enough to watch those finals you would have thought differently.

Well i can say Wade taught James how to become a champion and what would you say lol?

[MavsDirk41]

Again,it was very important for James to win a title in Cleveland....LBJ did not leave Miami because the heat were horrible since it was not the case

Ok man i dont believe that at all

C'mon

Sincerely i don’t believe that at all man

[Homer38]

Ok man i dont believe that at all

C'mon

Sincerely i don’t believe that at all man

So why did he return to Cleveland in this case?

Only for LBJ is it unfair to the league when he joins the team with the worst record in the league in the 4 years before (19-63 in 2011,21-45 in 2012,24-58 in 2013 and 33-49 in 2014) and that they had a lot of dysfunction

The talent was there but this team had a lot of dysfunction before he returns so it was a big challenge for James from the start.Some thought he was crazy to return to this place in 2014

[Pharmcat]

There should definitely be a parade for this win

[Homer38]

Pippen is one of the greatest 2 way players to ever play but the Bulls were 24-11 in 97/98 without Pippen.

Thats pretty random observation considering we were talking about 96 Finals.
Like in 93/94 they were 55-27 without Jordan, lol.

My man if you think Kemp was better than Jordan in the 96 finals that is your opinion….if you were old enough to watch those finals you would have thought differently.

Well i can say Wade taught James how to become a champion and what would you say lol?

Kemp was better in game 1, Rodman was better in game 2, Jordan was the better player in game 3, Kemp, Payton and Rodman were better than Jordan in game 4, it was about even in game 5 between Jordan and Kemp and in game 6 Rodman was the best player

Only in game 3 Jordan was the clear cut best player for both team in this finals

[TroubleS0me]

In-Season Tournament MVPs

LeBron : 1
Jordan : 0

[Ein Sof]

Pippen is one of the greatest 2 way players to ever play but the Bulls were 24-11 in 97/98 without Pippen.

Thats pretty random observation considering we were talking about 96 Finals.
Like in 93/94 they were 55-27 without Jordan, lol.

My man if you think Kemp was better than Jordan in the 96 finals that is your opinion….if you were old enough to watch those finals you would have thought differently.

Well i can say Wade taught James how to become a champion and what would you say lol?

It's LeBron who taught Wade how to win. They entered the NBA in the same draft, LeBron had already won 3 titles in 4 years, Wade had nothing.

[Goomba3666]

Don't blame Josh Howard for 2007,he had more PPG that Dirk in that 2007 first round matchup...Dirk was just unplayable on defense in that series and he was very poor on offense....

That's why they lost...And yes I know LBJ was horrible in the 2011 finals, who ever denied that?

You just make excuses for the all-time meltdown by Dirk in 2007

Josh Howard overachieved in my book and was a great player no doubt. Not his fault. Yes Dirk was horrible in those finals and i never imagined he would bounce back with a goat playoff run like he had in 11. But, i respect the fact that Dirk never put together a team of his friends and he never demanded management make a trade or sign players that he wanted to play with. Dirk put the team over himself.

Nice how you avoid the talent disparity between the two when comparing best teammates tho..

Why would he? Dirk played with Steve Nash, Michael Finley, Juwan Howard all under 30 years old then there's stretch 5 Lafrentz and Van Exel. That's a stacked squad in any era and yet they can't even reach Conference Finals, you respect him because Mavs FO surrounded him with all-stars? Then there's young LeBron surrounded by Big Z, Mo, Gooden, Boobie and Pavlovic and needed to score 25 straight points or so in a crucial game to end the dominance in the East of 2000's Pistons era. Sure, you can have that 2011 Finals but Carlisle was very clear what their gameplan should be, stop LeBron at all cost. Does it makes you think why Wade had a better series than LeBron? That's just common sense. Remember when Isiah-led 80's Pistons destroyed MJ for 3 straight years in a playoffs series? It's the same concept, stop MJ at all cost and they rekt Jordan for 3 straight years, the only time Jordan beat Isiah was when he got a career-threatening injury. Don't act like Dirk doesn't have a great team in his career that he needed to demand more help, he got the b2b MVP by his side for many years.

Lol @ stacked squad. Dear god. Just rattling off names of players you've never seen play. Should've said Shawn Bradley to round it off.

And the 2007 finals was close. Every game was close if I remember. I remember Bron turning the ball over and airballing freethrows. Also remember Boobie Gibson hitting a lot of threes. They weren't blown out every single game. Revisionist history only works on people on this forum who rely on stats to evaluate the game.

[jehosafats]

Lebron be like

[Homer38]

Josh Howard overachieved in my book and was a great player no doubt. Not his fault. Yes Dirk was horrible in those finals and i never imagined he would bounce back with a goat playoff run like he had in 11. But, i respect the fact that Dirk never put together a team of his friends and he never demanded management make a trade or sign players that he wanted to play with. Dirk put the team over himself.

Nice how you avoid the talent disparity between the two when comparing best teammates tho..

Why would he? Dirk played with Steve Nash, Michael Finley, Juwan Howard all under 30 years old then there's stretch 5 Lafrentz and Van Exel. That's a stacked squad in any era and yet they can't even reach Conference Finals, you respect him because Mavs FO surrounded him with all-stars? Then there's young LeBron surrounded by Big Z, Mo, Gooden, Boobie and Pavlovic and needed to score 25 straight points or so in a crucial game to end the dominance in the East of 2000's Pistons era. Sure, you can have that 2011 Finals but Carlisle was very clear what their gameplan should be, stop LeBron at all cost. Does it makes you think why Wade had a better series than LeBron? That's just common sense. Remember when Isiah-led 80's Pistons destroyed MJ for 3 straight years in a playoffs series? It's the same concept, stop MJ at all cost and they rekt Jordan for 3 straight years, the only time Jordan beat Isiah was when he got a career-threatening injury. Don't act like Dirk doesn't have a great team in his career that he needed to demand more help, he got the b2b MVP by his side for many years.

Lol @ stacked squad. Dear god. Just rattling off names of players you've never seen play. Should've said Shawn Bradley to round it off.

And the 2007 finals was close. Every game was close if I remember. I remember Bron turning the ball over and airballing freethrows. Also remember Boobie Gibson hitting a lot of threes. They weren't blown out every single game. Revisionist history only works on people on this forum who rely on stats to evaluate the game.

The Cavs led in the second half for only 2 minutes or something like that in the entire series and it was in game 4....Game 1 and game 2, it was two easy wins for the spurs... Overall the spurs were in total control in every game in this series...It's normal, since they were a much better team.But of course blame the 22 years old LBJ for this, despite this terrible roster especially on offense

Gidson was also only 6-19 from 3 in this final, so that's not a lot of 3s in my opinion....

[Heej]

Josh Howard overachieved in my book and was a great player no doubt. Not his fault. Yes Dirk was horrible in those finals and i never imagined he would bounce back with a goat playoff run like he had in 11. But, i respect the fact that Dirk never put together a team of his friends and he never demanded management make a trade or sign players that he wanted to play with. Dirk put the team over himself.

Nice how you avoid the talent disparity between the two when comparing best teammates tho..

Why would he? Dirk played with Steve Nash, Michael Finley, Juwan Howard all under 30 years old then there's stretch 5 Lafrentz and Van Exel. That's a stacked squad in any era and yet they can't even reach Conference Finals, you respect him because Mavs FO surrounded him with all-stars? Then there's young LeBron surrounded by Big Z, Mo, Gooden, Boobie and Pavlovic and needed to score 25 straight points or so in a crucial game to end the dominance in the East of 2000's Pistons era. Sure, you can have that 2011 Finals but Carlisle was very clear what their gameplan should be, stop LeBron at all cost. Does it makes you think why Wade had a better series than LeBron? That's just common sense. Remember when Isiah-led 80's Pistons destroyed MJ for 3 straight years in a playoffs series? It's the same concept, stop MJ at all cost and they rekt Jordan for 3 straight years, the only time Jordan beat Isiah was when he got a career-threatening injury. Don't act like Dirk doesn't have a great team in his career that he needed to demand more help, he got the b2b MVP by his side for many years.

Lol @ stacked squad. Dear god. Just rattling off names of players you've never seen play. Should've said Shawn Bradley to round it off.

And the 2007 finals was close. Every game was close if I remember. I remember Bron turning the ball over and airballing freethrows. Also remember Boobie Gibson hitting a lot of threes. They weren't blown out every single game. Revisionist history only works on people on this forum who rely on stats to evaluate the game.

What? Michael Finley was a walking bucket back then and Juwan was an elite role player, and let's not disrespect Young Nash who was already breaking out in Dallas.

The fact that the games were close is a testament to how much impact LeBron was able to muster, despite Mike Brown getting embarrassingly outcoached. Captain Jack (dunno if you know who that is, but ask Serge Ibaka if you don't) literally had a whole clip on his podcast with Matt Barnes talking about how the Spurs knew Mike Brown's entire playbook inside and out and the Cavs played right into their hands.

Also very amusing to me how in LeBron's one other poor Finals showing, Spoelstra similarly got pantsed by Rick Carlisle playing into the Mavs game plan of zoning up on LeBron and turning him into a passer because Spoelstra was playing lineups with 3-4 non-spacers and didn't have any zone-beating concepts installed into his offense.

But tbh most people have a very casual sense of what actually goes into winning a playoff series and how many moving parts it takes to work together. I would think to people like that they see it as an absolute failure of a playoff run by LeBron that's when he gets eliminated and likely don't stop to think how difficult it is to win with a team developing its identity.

I guess fortunately for other player fans like Jordan, Kobe, Curry, etc. people are willing to overlook the growing pains years when it comes to developing an identity with the coaching staff because the losses occurred early in the playoffs. Meanwhile LeBron gets penalized because his developing scheme/identity losses came in the Finals.

But do I expect most people to comprehend ball at this level? No. I expect to be met with responses that project the insecurity of coming up with excuses for valid criticisms to Pathological LeBron Hater Logic on to me.