Shams: LeBron wins tournament MVP

[One Last Shot]

Josh Howard overachieved in my book and was a great player no doubt. Not his fault. Yes Dirk was horrible in those finals and i never imagined he would bounce back with a goat playoff run like he had in 11. But, i respect the fact that Dirk never put together a team of his friends and he never demanded management make a trade or sign players that he wanted to play with. Dirk put the team over himself.

Nice how you avoid the talent disparity between the two when comparing best teammates tho..

Why would he? Dirk played with Steve Nash, Michael Finley, Juwan Howard all under 30 years old then there's stretch 5 Lafrentz and Van Exel. That's a stacked squad in any era and yet they can't even reach Conference Finals, you respect him because Mavs FO surrounded him with all-stars? Then there's young LeBron surrounded by Big Z, Mo, Gooden, Boobie and Pavlovic and needed to score 25 straight points or so in a crucial game to end the dominance in the East of 2000's Pistons era. Sure, you can have that 2011 Finals but Carlisle was very clear what their gameplan should be, stop LeBron at all cost. Does it makes you think why Wade had a better series than LeBron? That's just common sense. Remember when Isiah-led 80's Pistons destroyed MJ for 3 straight years in a playoffs series? It's the same concept, stop MJ at all cost and they rekt Jordan for 3 straight years, the only time Jordan beat Isiah was when he got a career-threatening injury. Don't act like Dirk doesn't have a great team in his career that he needed to demand more help, he got the b2b MVP by his side for many years.

Lol @ stacked squad. Dear god. Just rattling off names of players you've never seen play. Should've said Shawn Bradley to round it off.

And the 2007 finals was close. Every game was close if I remember. I remember Bron turning the ball over and airballing freethrows. Also remember Boobie Gibson hitting a lot of threes. They weren't blown out every single game. Revisionist history only works on people on this forum who rely on stats to evaluate the game.

Lol I watched all those players, Finley and Howard was all-stars in their own rights and Nash was a b2b MVP. If you switched Pavlovic and Gibson for Finley and Nash to Cavs then I'm sure everyone will call that a superteam. you're the one who's stupid enough to say that AD was the offensive anchor of the Lakers just to hate on LeBron and when someone pointed out how stupid it was to even say that then you take it back like an idiot. Go cry somewhere else dude, revisionist? What did I said about 2007 Finals between the Spurs and Cavs? You're imagining things. The point here was 22 years old LeBron played with Pavlovic, Gibson, Big Z and Gooden while 22 years old Dirk played with Finley, Nash, Howard, Van Exel. Which core was better and which team made the NBA Finals? That's a very simple question and if you can't even answer that then just go hide in your dumb this is Stephen Curry era.

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2202865&hilit=era

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[MavsDirk41]

C'mon

Sincerely i don’t believe that at all man

So why did he return to Cleveland in this case?

Only for LBJ is it unfair to the league when he joins the team with the worst record in the league in the 4 years before (19-63 in 2011,21-45 in 2012,24-58 in 2013 and 33-49 in 2014) and that they had a lot of dysfunction

The talent was there but this team had a lot of dysfunction before he returns so it was a big challenge for James from the start.Some thought he was crazy to return to this place in 2014

Kyrie Irving had 3 years in the nba in 2014
Kyrie Irving was a 2 time allstar by then
Team had the first pick in the draft in which they could trade for an established allstar player
James contacted Love once he signed with Cleveland
3 weeks later Love was in Cleveland
Wade was declining when James left Miami


Thats why left imo….he could start over with 2 new/younger all star teammates

[MavsDirk41]

Thats pretty random observation considering we were talking about 96 Finals.
Like in 93/94 they were 55-27 without Jordan, lol.

My man if you think Kemp was better than Jordan in the 96 finals that is your opinion….if you were old enough to watch those finals you would have thought differently.

Well i can say Wade taught James how to become a champion and what would you say lol?

Kemp was better in game 1, Rodman was better in game 2, Jordan was the better player in game 3, Kemp, Payton and Rodman were better than Jordan in game 4, it was about even in game 5 between Jordan and Kemp and in game 6 Rodman was the best player

Only in game 3 Jordan was the clear cut best player for both team in this finals

Game 4 was the only game where Jordan really sucked and wasnt the clear best player on the court. He didnt shoot well in game 6 but did all the other little things to get the win. I disagree with you 100%

[MavsDirk41]

Thats pretty random observation considering we were talking about 96 Finals.
Like in 93/94 they were 55-27 without Jordan, lol.

My man if you think Kemp was better than Jordan in the 96 finals that is your opinion….if you were old enough to watch those finals you would have thought differently.

Well i can say Wade taught James how to become a champion and what would you say lol?

It's LeBron who taught Wade how to win. They entered the NBA in the same draft, LeBron had already won 3 titles in 4 years, Wade had nothing.

Lol what?

[MavsDirk41]

Don't blame Josh Howard for 2007,he had more PPG that Dirk in that 2007 first round matchup...Dirk was just unplayable on defense in that series and he was very poor on offense....

That's why they lost...And yes I know LBJ was horrible in the 2011 finals, who ever denied that?

You just make excuses for the all-time meltdown by Dirk in 2007

Josh Howard overachieved in my book and was a great player no doubt. Not his fault. Yes Dirk was horrible in those finals and i never imagined he would bounce back with a goat playoff run like he had in 11. But, i respect the fact that Dirk never put together a team of his friends and he never demanded management make a trade or sign players that he wanted to play with. Dirk put the team over himself.

Nice how you avoid the talent disparity between the two when comparing best teammates tho..

Why would he? Dirk played with Steve Nash, Michael Finley, Juwan Howard all under 30 years old then there's stretch 5 Lafrentz and Van Exel. That's a stacked squad in any era and yet they can't even reach Conference Finals, you respect him because Mavs FO surrounded him with all-stars? Then there's young LeBron surrounded by Big Z, Mo, Gooden, Boobie and Pavlovic and needed to score 25 straight points or so in a crucial game to end the dominance in the East of 2000's Pistons era. Sure, you can have that 2011 Finals but Carlisle was very clear what their gameplan should be, stop LeBron at all cost. Does it makes you think why Wade had a better series than LeBron? That's just common sense. Remember when Isiah-led 80's Pistons destroyed MJ for 3 straight years in a playoffs series? It's the same concept, stop MJ at all cost and they rekt Jordan for 3 straight years, the only time Jordan beat Isiah was when he got a career-threatening injury. Don't act like Dirk doesn't have a great team in his career that he needed to demand more help, he got the b2b MVP by his side for many years.

Stacked squad?? You lose credibility automatically with that statement right there lol. How many allstars has Dirk played with compared to Dirk? Dont ignore this response either

[Homer38]

Sincerely i don’t believe that at all man

So why did he return to Cleveland in this case?

Only for LBJ is it unfair to the league when he joins the team with the worst record in the league in the 4 years before (19-63 in 2011,21-45 in 2012,24-58 in 2013 and 33-49 in 2014) and that they had a lot of dysfunction

The talent was there but this team had a lot of dysfunction before he returns so it was a big challenge for James from the start.Some thought he was crazy to return to this place in 2014

Kyrie Irving had 3 years in the nba in 2014
Kyrie Irving was a 2 time allstar by then
Team had the first pick in the draft in which they could trade for an established allstar player
James contacted Love once he signed with Cleveland
3 weeks later Love was in Cleveland
Wade was declining when James left Miami


Thats why left imo….he could start over with 2 new/younger all star teammates

The Cavs had Kyrie between 2012 to 2014 and they were still awful...It was far to be easy,it took a superhuman effort by James to win the title in 2016...If you look at the plus and minus stats,the cavs were bad without James on the court even with Love and Kyrie especially on defense

[Homer38]

My man if you think Kemp was better than Jordan in the 96 finals that is your opinion….if you were old enough to watch those finals you would have thought differently.

Well i can say Wade taught James how to become a champion and what would you say lol?

Kemp was better in game 1, Rodman was better in game 2, Jordan was the better player in game 3, Kemp, Payton and Rodman were better than Jordan in game 4, it was about even in game 5 between Jordan and Kemp and in game 6 Rodman was the best player

Only in game 3 Jordan was the clear cut best player for both team in this finals

Game 4 was the only game where Jordan really sucked and wasnt the clear best player on the court. He didnt shoot well in game 6 but did all the other little things to get the win. I disagree with you 100%

It was Rodman who did the little things in game 6(and in game 2 too)....I mean 11 offensive rebounds in each of those game!

[MavsDirk41]

Why would he? Dirk played with Steve Nash, Michael Finley, Juwan Howard all under 30 years old then there's stretch 5 Lafrentz and Van Exel. That's a stacked squad in any era and yet they can't even reach Conference Finals, you respect him because Mavs FO surrounded him with all-stars? Then there's young LeBron surrounded by Big Z, Mo, Gooden, Boobie and Pavlovic and needed to score 25 straight points or so in a crucial game to end the dominance in the East of 2000's Pistons era. Sure, you can have that 2011 Finals but Carlisle was very clear what their gameplan should be, stop LeBron at all cost. Does it makes you think why Wade had a better series than LeBron? That's just common sense. Remember when Isiah-led 80's Pistons destroyed MJ for 3 straight years in a playoffs series? It's the same concept, stop MJ at all cost and they rekt Jordan for 3 straight years, the only time Jordan beat Isiah was when he got a career-threatening injury. Don't act like Dirk doesn't have a great team in his career that he needed to demand more help, he got the b2b MVP by his side for many years.

Lol @ stacked squad. Dear god. Just rattling off names of players you've never seen play. Should've said Shawn Bradley to round it off.

And the 2007 finals was close. Every game was close if I remember. I remember Bron turning the ball over and airballing freethrows. Also remember Boobie Gibson hitting a lot of threes. They weren't blown out every single game. Revisionist history only works on people on this forum who rely on stats to evaluate the game.

What? Michael Finley was a walking bucket back then and Juwan was an elite role player, and let's not disrespect Young Nash who was already breaking out in Dallas.

The fact that the games were close is a testament to how much impact LeBron was able to muster, despite Mike Brown getting embarrassingly outcoached. Captain Jack (dunno if you know who that is, but ask Serge Ibaka if you don't) literally had a whole clip on his podcast with Matt Barnes talking about how the Spurs knew Mike Brown's entire playbook inside and out and the Cavs played right into their hands.

Also very amusing to me how in LeBron's one other poor Finals showing, Spoelstra similarly got pantsed by Rick Carlisle playing into the Mavs game plan of zoning up on LeBron and turning him into a passer because Spoelstra was playing lineups with 3-4 non-spacers and didn't have any zone-beating concepts installed into his offense.

But tbh most people have a very casual sense of what actually goes into winning a playoff series and how many moving parts it takes to work together. I would think to people like that they see it as an absolute failure of a playoff run by LeBron that's when he gets eliminated and likely don't stop to think how difficult it is to win with a team developing its identity.

I guess fortunately for other player fans like Jordan, Kobe, Curry, etc. people are willing to overlook the growing pains years when it comes to developing an identity with the coaching staff because the losses occurred early in the playoffs. Meanwhile LeBron gets penalized because his developing scheme/identity losses came in the Finals.

But do I expect most people to comprehend ball at this level? No. I expect to be met with responses that project the insecurity of coming up with excuses for valid criticisms to Pathological LeBron Hater Logic on to me.

Nothing but excuses. Typical from a james fan tho its expected. Carlise devised a game plan to make James a passer lol. Just excuse after excuse.

[MavsDirk41]

So why did he return to Cleveland in this case?

Only for LBJ is it unfair to the league when he joins the team with the worst record in the league in the 4 years before (19-63 in 2011,21-45 in 2012,24-58 in 2013 and 33-49 in 2014) and that they had a lot of dysfunction

The talent was there but this team had a lot of dysfunction before he returns so it was a big challenge for James from the start.Some thought he was crazy to return to this place in 2014

Kyrie Irving had 3 years in the nba in 2014
Kyrie Irving was a 2 time allstar by then
Team had the first pick in the draft in which they could trade for an established allstar player
James contacted Love once he signed with Cleveland
3 weeks later Love was in Cleveland
Wade was declining when James left Miami


Thats why left imo….he could start over with 2 new/younger all star teammates

The Cavs had Kyrie between 2012 to 2014 and they were still awful...It was far to be easy,it took a superhuman effort by James to win the title in 2016...If you look at the plus and minus stats,the cavs were bad without James on the court even with Love and Kyrie especially on defense

Before James and Love got to Cleveland who was Kyrie Irvings best teammates? Were any allstars?

Irving averaged 27/4/4 in the finals on 47/41/94 shooting splits plus he hit the biggest shot in the series but it took a superhuman effort by James to win lol? Do you really believe Irving didnt have a “superhuman” effort by the way he played? He outplayed Curry!!

James was awesome!!
Irving was awesome!!
Love was great in the playoffs prior to the finals. Go look up the stats man lol

[One Last Shot]

Josh Howard overachieved in my book and was a great player no doubt. Not his fault. Yes Dirk was horrible in those finals and i never imagined he would bounce back with a goat playoff run like he had in 11. But, i respect the fact that Dirk never put together a team of his friends and he never demanded management make a trade or sign players that he wanted to play with. Dirk put the team over himself.

Nice how you avoid the talent disparity between the two when comparing best teammates tho..

Why would he? Dirk played with Steve Nash, Michael Finley, Juwan Howard all under 30 years old then there's stretch 5 Lafrentz and Van Exel. That's a stacked squad in any era and yet they can't even reach Conference Finals, you respect him because Mavs FO surrounded him with all-stars? Then there's young LeBron surrounded by Big Z, Mo, Gooden, Boobie and Pavlovic and needed to score 25 straight points or so in a crucial game to end the dominance in the East of 2000's Pistons era. Sure, you can have that 2011 Finals but Carlisle was very clear what their gameplan should be, stop LeBron at all cost. Does it makes you think why Wade had a better series than LeBron? That's just common sense. Remember when Isiah-led 80's Pistons destroyed MJ for 3 straight years in a playoffs series? It's the same concept, stop MJ at all cost and they rekt Jordan for 3 straight years, the only time Jordan beat Isiah was when he got a career-threatening injury. Don't act like Dirk doesn't have a great team in his career that he needed to demand more help, he got the b2b MVP by his side for many years.

Stacked squad?? You lose credibility automatically with that statement right there lol. How many allstars has Dirk played with compared to Dirk? Dont ignore this response either

It's simple dude, If you replace Pavlovic and Mo Williams with Michael Finley and Steve Nash in their prime to Cavaliers would you called it a stack squad or a superteam? Dirk and Nash, two MVPs in one team should be a great squad then you add another All-star 20+ ppg Michael Finley to that team plus Van Exel then Raja Bell. That's the core Dirk played with in his younger years now compare that to the team LeBron led to 2007 Finals.

[MavsDirk41]

Kemp was better in game 1, Rodman was better in game 2, Jordan was the better player in game 3, Kemp, Payton and Rodman were better than Jordan in game 4, it was about even in game 5 between Jordan and Kemp and in game 6 Rodman was the best player

Only in game 3 Jordan was the clear cut best player for both team in this finals

Game 4 was the only game where Jordan really sucked and wasnt the clear best player on the court. He didnt shoot well in game 6 but did all the other little things to get the win. I disagree with you 100%

It was Rodman who did the little things in game 6(and in game 2 too)....I mean 11 offensive rebounds in each of those game!

Yes he did the dirty work he was a great rebounder and defensive player but he gave nothing offensively. He didnt outplay Jordan in those finals man. Do they win without him? No. But that doesnt mean he outplayed Jordan. Jordan had some bad shooting games in those finals but nobody else on the Bulls was giving much offensively. I think they were so focused on breaking the all time regular season winning record that they were spent by the time the playoffs rolled around.

[MavsDirk41]

Why would he? Dirk played with Steve Nash, Michael Finley, Juwan Howard all under 30 years old then there's stretch 5 Lafrentz and Van Exel. That's a stacked squad in any era and yet they can't even reach Conference Finals, you respect him because Mavs FO surrounded him with all-stars? Then there's young LeBron surrounded by Big Z, Mo, Gooden, Boobie and Pavlovic and needed to score 25 straight points or so in a crucial game to end the dominance in the East of 2000's Pistons era. Sure, you can have that 2011 Finals but Carlisle was very clear what their gameplan should be, stop LeBron at all cost. Does it makes you think why Wade had a better series than LeBron? That's just common sense. Remember when Isiah-led 80's Pistons destroyed MJ for 3 straight years in a playoffs series? It's the same concept, stop MJ at all cost and they rekt Jordan for 3 straight years, the only time Jordan beat Isiah was when he got a career-threatening injury. Don't act like Dirk doesn't have a great team in his career that he needed to demand more help, he got the b2b MVP by his side for many years.

Stacked squad?? You lose credibility automatically with that statement right there lol. How many allstars has Dirk played with compared to Dirk? Dont ignore this response either

It's simple dude, If you replace Pavlovic and Mo Williams with Michael Finley and Steve Nash in their prime to Cavaliers would you called it a stack squad or a superteam? Dirk and Nash, two MVPs in one team should be a great squad then you add another All-star 20+ ppg Michael Finley to that team plus Van Exel then Raja Bell. That's the core Dirk played with in his younger years now compare that to the team LeBron led to 2007 Finals.

Those Cleveland teams James played on his first few years in the league were not great man. No argument here at all. I dont blame him for leaving. But, he has set himself up pretty well playing with Wade, Bosh, Irving, Love, and Davis since leaving right?

Finley was in his prime but Nash was just getting into his prime when Cuban let him leave for Phoenix. Worst mistake Cuban ever made. Dirk stayed with the Mavs and he finally got his ring. I respect Dirk for sticking it out and staying with the Mavs through hard times. Hell Cuban passed on Giannis for Shane Larkin in the draft.

Point is, James has had plenty of help ever since leaving Cleveland and he has played with way more talent than Dirk over the course of their careers. Dirk has never played with anyone as great as Wade or Davis.

[Heej]

Lol @ stacked squad. Dear god. Just rattling off names of players you've never seen play. Should've said Shawn Bradley to round it off.

And the 2007 finals was close. Every game was close if I remember. I remember Bron turning the ball over and airballing freethrows. Also remember Boobie Gibson hitting a lot of threes. They weren't blown out every single game. Revisionist history only works on people on this forum who rely on stats to evaluate the game.

What? Michael Finley was a walking bucket back then and Juwan was an elite role player, and let's not disrespect Young Nash who was already breaking out in Dallas.

The fact that the games were close is a testament to how much impact LeBron was able to muster, despite Mike Brown getting embarrassingly outcoached. Captain Jack (dunno if you know who that is, but ask Serge Ibaka if you don't) literally had a whole clip on his podcast with Matt Barnes talking about how the Spurs knew Mike Brown's entire playbook inside and out and the Cavs played right into their hands.

Also very amusing to me how in LeBron's one other poor Finals showing, Spoelstra similarly got pantsed by Rick Carlisle playing into the Mavs game plan of zoning up on LeBron and turning him into a passer because Spoelstra was playing lineups with 3-4 non-spacers and didn't have any zone-beating concepts installed into his offense.

But tbh most people have a very casual sense of what actually goes into winning a playoff series and how many moving parts it takes to work together. I would think to people like that they see it as an absolute failure of a playoff run by LeBron that's when he gets eliminated and likely don't stop to think how difficult it is to win with a team developing its identity.

I guess fortunately for other player fans like Jordan, Kobe, Curry, etc. people are willing to overlook the growing pains years when it comes to developing an identity with the coaching staff because the losses occurred early in the playoffs. Meanwhile LeBron gets penalized because his developing scheme/identity losses came in the Finals.

But do I expect most people to comprehend ball at this level? No. I expect to be met with responses that project the insecurity of coming up with excuses for valid criticisms to Pathological LeBron Hater Logic on to me.

Nothing but excuses. Typical from a james fan tho its expected. Carlise devised a game plan to make James a passer lol. Just excuse after excuse.

Read the last paragraph and cope and seethe over how you perfectly played out my prediction. Pathological LeBron Haters have begun to lose their fastball and now it's just predictable and altogether too easy

[toodles23]

Josh Howard overachieved in my book and was a great player no doubt. Not his fault. Yes Dirk was horrible in those finals and i never imagined he would bounce back with a goat playoff run like he had in 11. But, i respect the fact that Dirk never put together a team of his friends and he never demanded management make a trade or sign players that he wanted to play with. Dirk put the team over himself.

Nice how you avoid the talent disparity between the two when comparing best teammates tho..

Why would he? Dirk played with Steve Nash, Michael Finley, Juwan Howard all under 30 years old then there's stretch 5 Lafrentz and Van Exel. That's a stacked squad in any era and yet they can't even reach Conference Finals, you respect him because Mavs FO surrounded him with all-stars? Then there's young LeBron surrounded by Big Z, Mo, Gooden, Boobie and Pavlovic and needed to score 25 straight points or so in a crucial game to end the dominance in the East of 2000's Pistons era. Sure, you can have that 2011 Finals but Carlisle was very clear what their gameplan should be, stop LeBron at all cost. Does it makes you think why Wade had a better series than LeBron? That's just common sense. Remember when Isiah-led 80's Pistons destroyed MJ for 3 straight years in a playoffs series? It's the same concept, stop MJ at all cost and they rekt Jordan for 3 straight years, the only time Jordan beat Isiah was when he got a career-threatening injury. Don't act like Dirk doesn't have a great team in his career that he needed to demand more help, he got the b2b MVP by his side for many years.

Lol @ stacked squad. Dear god. Just rattling off names of players you've never seen play. Should've said Shawn Bradley to round it off.

And the 2007 finals was close. Every game was close if I remember. I remember Bron turning the ball over and airballing freethrows. Also remember Boobie Gibson hitting a lot of threes. They weren't blown out every single game. Revisionist history only works on people on this forum who rely on stats to evaluate the game.

It's incredible how desperate these guys are that they have to go back to a series from 2007 when Lebron was 22 and not even remotely close to his prime form yet, and paint it as a negative that he made the Finals when he was so young and raw.

Also love just making stuff up like "remember Boobie Gibson hitting a lot of threes" instead of taking the 10 seconds required to look at basketball reference - Gibson was 6 of 19 from three in the series, so he made 1.5 per game on 32%, and it's not like he was a guy who could shoot off the dribble or off of movement. Totally the mark of somebody making genuine, good-faith arguments and not a desperate hater.

You also have to love this guy talking making vague gestures about people who rely stats instead of watching the games, somebody who's eye test is so worthless that they claimed that Anthony Davis was the Lakers offensive anchor and that everything ran through him.

[Heej]

Why would he? Dirk played with Steve Nash, Michael Finley, Juwan Howard all under 30 years old then there's stretch 5 Lafrentz and Van Exel. That's a stacked squad in any era and yet they can't even reach Conference Finals, you respect him because Mavs FO surrounded him with all-stars? Then there's young LeBron surrounded by Big Z, Mo, Gooden, Boobie and Pavlovic and needed to score 25 straight points or so in a crucial game to end the dominance in the East of 2000's Pistons era. Sure, you can have that 2011 Finals but Carlisle was very clear what their gameplan should be, stop LeBron at all cost. Does it makes you think why Wade had a better series than LeBron? That's just common sense. Remember when Isiah-led 80's Pistons destroyed MJ for 3 straight years in a playoffs series? It's the same concept, stop MJ at all cost and they rekt Jordan for 3 straight years, the only time Jordan beat Isiah was when he got a career-threatening injury. Don't act like Dirk doesn't have a great team in his career that he needed to demand more help, he got the b2b MVP by his side for many years.

Lol @ stacked squad. Dear god. Just rattling off names of players you've never seen play. Should've said Shawn Bradley to round it off.

And the 2007 finals was close. Every game was close if I remember. I remember Bron turning the ball over and airballing freethrows. Also remember Boobie Gibson hitting a lot of threes. They weren't blown out every single game. Revisionist history only works on people on this forum who rely on stats to evaluate the game.

It's incredible how desperate these guys are that they have to go back to a series from 2007 when Lebron was 22 and not even remotely close to his prime form yet, and paint it as a negative that he made the Finals when he was so young and raw.

Also love just making stuff up like "remember Boobie Gibson hitting a lot of threes" instead of taking the 10 seconds required to look at basketball reference - Gibson was 6 of 19 from three in the series, so he made 1.5 per game on 32%, and it's not like he was a guy who could shoot off the dribble or off of movement. Totally the mark of somebody making genuine, good-faith arguments and not a desperate hater.

Where are all the good MJ fan posters. I feel like all I see are dumb arguments that get clapped off the backboard by LeBron fans now.

Even in PC Board the Jordan fans just lose every time when it moves into arguing impact metrics. Sad to see them go out like this.

[Homer38]

Kyrie Irving had 3 years in the nba in 2014
Kyrie Irving was a 2 time allstar by then
Team had the first pick in the draft in which they could trade for an established allstar player
James contacted Love once he signed with Cleveland
3 weeks later Love was in Cleveland
Wade was declining when James left Miami


Thats why left imo….he could start over with 2 new/younger all star teammates

The Cavs had Kyrie between 2012 to 2014 and they were still awful...It was far to be easy,it took a superhuman effort by James to win the title in 2016...If you look at the plus and minus stats,the cavs were bad without James on the court even with Love and Kyrie especially on defense

Before James and Love got to Cleveland who was Kyrie Irvings best teammates? Were any allstars?

Irving averaged 27/4/4 in the finals on 47/41/94 shooting splits plus he hit the biggest shot in the series but it took a superhuman effort by James to win lol? Do you really believe Irving didnt have a “superhuman” effort by the way he played? He outplayed Curry!!

James was awesome!!
Irving was awesome!!
Love was great in the playoffs prior to the finals. Go look up the stats man lol

Do you remember that James led both team in points, assists, rebounds, steal and block....the only player ever to have done that in a playoff series in NBA history...that's why it was legendary. ...Yes Kyrie was very good but James did everything in this series, especially in the last 3 games.Back to back 41 points game for LBJ and a triple double in game 7 but he was even better on defense!

Watch on YouTube

[toodles23]

Lol @ stacked squad. Dear god. Just rattling off names of players you've never seen play. Should've said Shawn Bradley to round it off.

And the 2007 finals was close. Every game was close if I remember. I remember Bron turning the ball over and airballing freethrows. Also remember Boobie Gibson hitting a lot of threes. They weren't blown out every single game. Revisionist history only works on people on this forum who rely on stats to evaluate the game.

It's incredible how desperate these guys are that they have to go back to a series from 2007 when Lebron was 22 and not even remotely close to his prime form yet, and paint it as a negative that he made the Finals when he was so young and raw.

Also love just making stuff up like "remember Boobie Gibson hitting a lot of threes" instead of taking the 10 seconds required to look at basketball reference - Gibson was 6 of 19 from three in the series, so he made 1.5 per game on 32%, and it's not like he was a guy who could shoot off the dribble or off of movement. Totally the mark of somebody making genuine, good-faith arguments and not a desperate hater.

Where are all the good MJ fan posters. I feel like all I see are dumb arguments that get clapped off the backboard by LeBron fans now.

Even in PC Board the Jordan fans just lose every time when it moves into arguing impact metrics. Sad to see them go out like this.

Yeah that's another thing, if I was going to do Jordan propaganda I could do SO much better of a job than his fans do. It's pathetic.

[Homer38]

Game 4 was the only game where Jordan really sucked and wasnt the clear best player on the court. He didnt shoot well in game 6 but did all the other little things to get the win. I disagree with you 100%

It was Rodman who did the little things in game 6(and in game 2 too)....I mean 11 offensive rebounds in each of those game!

Yes he did the dirty work he was a great rebounder and defensive player but he gave nothing offensively. He didnt outplay Jordan in those finals man. Do they win without him? No. But that doesnt mean he outplayed Jordan. Jordan had some bad shooting games in those finals but nobody else on the Bulls was giving much offensively. I think they were so focused on breaking the all time regular season winning record that they were spent by the time the playoffs rolled around.

11 offensive rebounds in game 2 and 6 and you say that Rodman did nothing offensively

Offense isn't just about scoring....

[axeman23]

Cute pic winnie!

You definitely built for the pic.
The salt so good.

Too bad you not built for anything else. Mr. No response when presented with facts.

What facts lol? I think its “your not built” by the way Winnnie

* "you're" (contraction of "you are"), not "your" (possessive).

[Heej]

It's incredible how desperate these guys are that they have to go back to a series from 2007 when Lebron was 22 and not even remotely close to his prime form yet, and paint it as a negative that he made the Finals when he was so young and raw.

Also love just making stuff up like "remember Boobie Gibson hitting a lot of threes" instead of taking the 10 seconds required to look at basketball reference - Gibson was 6 of 19 from three in the series, so he made 1.5 per game on 32%, and it's not like he was a guy who could shoot off the dribble or off of movement. Totally the mark of somebody making genuine, good-faith arguments and not a desperate hater.

Where are all the good MJ fan posters. I feel like all I see are dumb arguments that get clapped off the backboard by LeBron fans now.

Even in PC Board the Jordan fans just lose every time when it moves into arguing impact metrics. Sad to see them go out like this.

Yeah that's another thing, if I was going to do Jordan propaganda I could do SO much better of a job than his fans do. It's pathetic.

Seriously. Homer just cooked that dude on an attempted Kyrie talking point that had absolutely zero chance of converting the bucket. If you're going to make an argument, why make such an obviously bad one LMFAO. I agree with you, a lot of us could do a way better job arguing for MJ than these bozos. Where is the challenge