Shams: LeBron wins tournament MVP

[MavsDirk41]

If you talk about game 6,he also attempts more FGA(35) that his teammates(32)

I could argue that LBJ in 2016 to 2018 was better that Jordan in 1991 to 1993 come playoffs time...Difference,Jordan did not face a team of the caliber of the warriors in those years

Well Jordan never played with an offensive player as talented as Irving or Wade in his career. He had to carry a bigger load offensively…Jordan had to carry the offensive load in 98…..but you knew that right?

And Jordan never picked his teammates like James did he? How many teammates did James help turn into HOF talent? A big 0

Same for Jordan...Pippen would been in the HOF,no matter what...One of the best 2 way players of all-time.LBJ always had a big load to carry on offense and also on defense....Jordan had so much help on defense, it was crazy and on offense, he could play to his strengths always and his team were great in offensive rebounds

LBJ often needed to be the best scorer, passer and defender of his team during his career.....The only true elite defender that LBJ has had in his career (Pippen caliber) is Davis..No Ben Wallace don't count,he was not the same he was in Detroit but of course if he would been healthy vs Magic in 2009,it would been huge for the cavs!

How in the world do you know how Pippen would have turned out if he wasn’t drafted by the Bulls? Lol seriously?

How many seasons has Davis averaged over 20 a game in his career? How about Wade? Kyrie? Love? You want to compare them to Pippen, Grant, and Kukoc? Yes the Bulls were great defensively. They were built around their defense. But Jordan was all defense 9 years. And he never played with a big as talented as Davis.

[MavsDirk41]

Just goes to show what having elite coaching and systemic continuity can do for players. Shout-out Jerry Reinsdorf, he never gets credit for being one of the best owners of his era.

I agree about Reinsdorf but what is the name of that guy in Miami???? Head of basketball operations?? Pat Riley??? Yea, he is pretty decent too no? Did James play in Miami?

Quick, what percentage of his career did Jordan play for the Bulls vs what percentage did he play for Miami?

Why do y'all do this to yourselves lmfaooo somebody phone in the real Jordan debaters

Cause Jordan isnt a crybaby who would quit after getting drilled by San Antonio in the 14 finals? The lecramp series….

[Sixers in 4]

So he has five championships now. Could tie Jordan this year

[Heej]

I agree about Reinsdorf but what is the name of that guy in Miami???? Head of basketball operations?? Pat Riley??? Yea, he is pretty decent too no? Did James play in Miami?

Quick, what percentage of his career did Jordan play for the Bulls vs what percentage did he play for Miami?

Why do y'all do this to yourselves lmfaooo somebody phone in the real Jordan debaters

Cause Jordan isnt a crybaby who would quit after getting drilled by San Antonio in the 14 finals? The lecramp series….

now you're deteriorating into nonsensical arguments using unserious LeMemes. This is pathetic. I hope older heads like me can see how low the standards of Jordan debaters have fallen on this board. This is why MavsDirk is afraid to step foot in PC Board LMFAO

[MavsDirk41]

In 1989,the Bulls were up 2-1 vs pistons but Jordan was 5-15 in game 4,only 8 FGA in game 5( ) and 8 turnovers in game 6.....Yes, Jordan had failures before Phil Jackson and before the Celtics and Pistons had a decline

Every superstar has had failures but:

85 playoffs
29/6/9 vs Milwaukee

86 playoffs
44/6/6 vs Boston

87 playoffs
36/7/6 vs Boston

88 playoffs
27/9/5 vs Detroit

89 playoffs
30/6/7 vs Detroit

90 playoffs
32/7/6 vs Detroit

Against the two best teams in the east during that time he played like a superstar in the playoffs. No player is perfect but give me Jordan over James 7 days a week. And ive never seen Jordan play so un superstar like in as big a series as James in 11. James was also pretty mediocre in the 07 finals

It doesn't matter the stats if you criticize LBJ for the losses of 2009 or 2017 as an example

I don't think a 22 year old player would have been good against a defense like the Spurs in 2007, much less with the poor supporting cast that LBJ had in offense... it's incredible he made the final with this lineup

2011 doesn't erase the rest of LBJ's accomplishments(see below), before or after, unless you have the same standard for MJ in the final 3 games vs Detroit in 1989?

Read on Twitter

Bron muse lol??? How old are you? I can post a bunch of pro Jordan stats too its not that hard lol. James is all about the stats but give me the guy who just won.

[MavsDirk41]

Quick, what percentage of his career did Jordan play for the Bulls vs what percentage did he play for Miami?

Why do y'all do this to yourselves lmfaooo somebody phone in the real Jordan debaters

Cause Jordan isnt a crybaby who would quit after getting drilled by San Antonio in the 14 finals? The lecramp series….

now you're deteriorating into nonsensical arguments using unserious LeMemes. This is pathetic. I hope older heads like me can see how low the standards of Jordan debaters have fallen on this board.

Kind of like your post defending your hero

[Heej]

Cause Jordan isnt a crybaby who would quit after getting drilled by San Antonio in the 14 finals? The lecramp series….

now you're deteriorating into nonsensical arguments using unserious LeMemes. This is pathetic. I hope older heads like me can see how low the standards of Jordan debaters have fallen on this board.

Kind of like your post defending your hero

Cope. If this is all you've got on the topic this is LeBrover enjoy your night

[NyKnicks1714]

LeBron's haters are so insecure that they literally can't handle the existence of a thread which praises him or simply states an accomplishment. They have to come in and derail it with their tired LeBron v Jordan copypastas. Like it's ok, you don't have to spend literally hours of your weekend propping up Jordan and tearing down LeBron. Nothing bad will happen to you if you don't.

[One Last Shot]

Lol the Detroit Pistons schemed their entire game plan around stopping Jordan in the late 80s. They dared someone else to beat them on that Bulls team. The Bulls lost 3 years in a row but Jordan still played like a superstar. So if Jordan could overcome schemes and matchups why couldn’t James? You need to quit crying and making excuses and quit thinking your hero didnt crap the bed.

In 1989,the Bulls were up 2-1 vs pistons but Jordan was 5-15 in game 4,only 8 FGA in game 5( ) and 8 turnovers in game 6.....Yes, Jordan had failures before Phil Jackson and before the Celtics and Pistons had a decline

Every superstar has had failures but:

85 playoffs
29/6/9 vs Milwaukee

86 playoffs
44/6/6 vs Boston

87 playoffs
36/7/6 vs Boston

88 playoffs
27/9/5 vs Detroit

89 playoffs
30/6/7 vs Detroit

90 playoffs
32/7/6 vs Detroit

Against the two best teams in the east during that time he played like a superstar in the playoffs. No player is perfect but give me Jordan over James 7 days a week. And ive never seen Jordan play so un superstar like in as big a series as James in 11. James was also pretty mediocre in the 07 finals

You must also love another superstar Tracy McGrady, their numbers are quite identical in the playoffs.


2001 Playoffs
34/7/8 vs. Milwaukee

2002 Playoffs
31/6/6 vs. Charlotte

2003 Playoffs
32/7/6 vs. Detroit

2005 Playoffs
31/6/7 vs. Dallas

2007 Playoffs
25/6/7 vs. Utah

2008 Playoffs
27/7/8 vs. Utah


The point is any great players can pump their stats in a playoffs series but doesn't have what it takes to win. That's who Jordan was when there's a great competition in the East like Bird Celtics who swept him in b2b years while Thomas Pistons rekt his Bulls for 3 straight years. He needed to wait on those ATG to get injured and washed to dominate the league. His team won 55 games even without him, won a playoffs series and took the eventual Eastern Champs Knicks to 7 games. That's a clear indication how stacked his team was.

That's way different with LeBron. Look at those 66-win Cavs when he left for Heat in 2010, they became the worst team in the NBA minus LeBron in 2011. Look at those Heat team that LeBron lead to 4 straight Finals and 2 NBA titles from 2010-2014, they became a lottery team in 2015 minus LeBron even if they replace him with Deng, Dragic. Look at those 2015-2018 Cavs team that LeBron lead to 4 straight Finals and 2016 NBA title coming back from 3-1 deficit against a 73-win dynasty, they became the worst team in 2019 minus LeBron. That's the difference on team impact between LeBron and Jordan.

[JordansBulls]

In 1989,the Bulls were up 2-1 vs pistons but Jordan was 5-15 in game 4,only 8 FGA in game 5( ) and 8 turnovers in game 6.....Yes, Jordan had failures before Phil Jackson and before the Celtics and Pistons had a decline

Every superstar has had failures but:

85 playoffs
29/6/9 vs Milwaukee

86 playoffs
44/6/6 vs Boston

87 playoffs
36/7/6 vs Boston

88 playoffs
27/9/5 vs Detroit

89 playoffs
30/6/7 vs Detroit

90 playoffs
32/7/6 vs Detroit

Against the two best teams in the east during that time he played like a superstar in the playoffs. No player is perfect but give me Jordan over James 7 days a week. And ive never seen Jordan play so un superstar like in as big a series as James in 11. James was also pretty mediocre in the 07 finals

You must also love another superstar Tracy McGrady, their numbers are quite identical in the playoffs.


2001 Playoffs
34/7/8 vs. Milwaukee

2002 Playoffs
31/6/6 vs. Charlotte

2003 Playoffs
32/7/6 vs. Detroit

2005 Playoffs
31/6/7 vs. Dallas

2007 Playoffs
25/6/7 vs. Utah

2008 Playoffs
27/7/8 vs. Utah


The point is any great players can pump their stats in a playoffs series but doesn't have what it takes to win. That's who Jordan was when there's a great competition in the East like Bird Celtics who swept him in b2b years while Thomas Pistons rekt his Bulls for 3 straight years. He needed to wait on those ATG to get injured and washed to dominate the league. His team won 55 games even without him, won a playoffs series and took the eventual Eastern Champs Knicks to 7 games. That's a clear indication how stacked his team was.

That's way different with LeBron. Look at those 66-win Cavs when he left for Heat in 2010, they became the worst team in the NBA minus LeBron in 2014. Look at those Heat team that LeBron lead to 4 straight Finals and 2 NBA titles from 2010-2014, they became a lottery team in 2015 minus LeBron even if they replace him with Deng, Dragic and White. Look at those 2015-2018 Cavs team that LeBron lead to 4 straight Finals and 2016 NBA title coming back from 3-1 deficit against a 73-win dynasty, they became the worst team in 2019 minus LeBron. That's the difference on team impact between LeBron and Jordan.

Lebron won bronze medal with prime Duncan and Iverson and missed the play in with prime Davis and Westbrook if we are talking impact. He also lost with hca to a career loser in Dwight Howard and lost with hca 3 years in a row. Jordan never won bronze nor ever lost with hca.

[zimpy27]

Every superstar has had failures but:

85 playoffs
29/6/9 vs Milwaukee

86 playoffs
44/6/6 vs Boston

87 playoffs
36/7/6 vs Boston

88 playoffs
27/9/5 vs Detroit

89 playoffs
30/6/7 vs Detroit

90 playoffs
32/7/6 vs Detroit

Against the two best teams in the east during that time he played like a superstar in the playoffs. No player is perfect but give me Jordan over James 7 days a week. And ive never seen Jordan play so un superstar like in as big a series as James in 11. James was also pretty mediocre in the 07 finals

You must also love another superstar Tracy McGrady, their numbers are quite identical in the playoffs.


2001 Playoffs
34/7/8 vs. Milwaukee

2002 Playoffs
31/6/6 vs. Charlotte

2003 Playoffs
32/7/6 vs. Detroit

2005 Playoffs
31/6/7 vs. Dallas

2007 Playoffs
25/6/7 vs. Utah

2008 Playoffs
27/7/8 vs. Utah


The point is any great players can pump their stats in a playoffs series but doesn't have what it takes to win. That's who Jordan was when there's a great competition in the East like Bird Celtics who swept him in b2b years while Thomas Pistons rekt his Bulls for 3 straight years. He needed to wait on those ATG to get injured and washed to dominate the league. His team won 55 games even without him, won a playoffs series and took the eventual Eastern Champs Knicks to 7 games. That's a clear indication how stacked his team was.

That's way different with LeBron. Look at those 66-win Cavs when he left for Heat in 2010, they became the worst team in the NBA minus LeBron in 2014. Look at those Heat team that LeBron lead to 4 straight Finals and 2 NBA titles from 2010-2014, they became a lottery team in 2015 minus LeBron even if they replace him with Deng, Dragic and White. Look at those 2015-2018 Cavs team that LeBron lead to 4 straight Finals and 2016 NBA title coming back from 3-1 deficit against a 73-win dynasty, they became the worst team in 2019 minus LeBron. That's the difference on team impact between LeBron and Jordan.

Lebron won bronze medal with prime Duncan and Iverson and missed the play in with prime Davis and Westbrook if we are talking impact. He also lost with hca to a career loser in Dwight Howard and lost with hca 3 years in a row. Jordan never won bronze nor ever lost with hca.

Tell me you weren't alive for the 2004 Olympics without telling me.


LeBron played 3 minutes in the semi's they lost at that Olympics... What could he have done in 3 minutes other than manage a 150% TS?

[binjumper]

Lebron fans have achieved a new level of cringe.

[Chessboxer]

Lebron fans have achieved a new level of cringe.

Let them have their fun, even they know Lebron isn't winning anymore real MVPs which is why they're hyping this up. In fact, no one will even remember this tournament after Christmas.

[Marrrcuss]

Lebron fans have achieved a new level of cringe.

Let them have their fun, even they know Lebron isn't winning anymore real MVPs which is why they're hyping this up. In fact, no one will even remember this tournament after Christmas.

This crappy azz tournament has you haters acting weird. I'm a huge Bron fan amd haven't said one word hyping this tournament.
The haters now act as of they are lebron fans just to give them a worse name. Just that effort exceeds anything a bron fan would do. We aren't posing as MJ fans, lol

[jerok]

Cute pic winnie!

You definitely built for the pic.
The salt so good.

Too bad you not built for anything else. Mr. No response when presented with facts.

What facts lol? I think its “your not built” by the way Winnnie

I've owned you sooo many times, it's not even fun anymore. Haha
But I'm game, if you built for it.
History states you'll just run away to another thread LOL.

It's actually you're not built for it, lol if you wanna be grammar police, please use the right one, don't embarass yourself like your fantasy takes of yesteryears.

But I like to use, You built for it? Let me know if you want another spanking.

[Chessboxer]

Lebron fans have achieved a new level of cringe.

Let them have their fun, even they know Lebron isn't winning anymore real MVPs which is why they're hyping this up. In fact, no one will even remember this tournament after Christmas.

This crappy azz tournament has you haters acting weird. I'm a huge Bron fan amd haven't said one word hyping this tournament.
The haters now act as of they are lebron fans just to give them a worse name. Just that effort exceeds anything a bron fan would do. We aren't posing as MJ fans, lol

I could care less, like I said no one will remember or care about this tournament after the Christmas games and the new year starts. However, I'll let up on Lebron since he "wants his damn respect too".

[Ein Sof]

My man if you think Kemp was better than Jordan in the 96 finals that is your opinion….if you were old enough to watch those finals you would have thought differently.

Well i can say Wade taught James how to become a champion and what would you say lol?

It's LeBron who taught Wade how to win. They entered the NBA in the same draft, LeBron had already won 3 titles in 4 years, Wade had nothing.

Lol what?

I can try dumbing it down if you want

[K9J]

what an empty discussion almost in 2024
The reality and only fact that we have all seen is that the bulls, after 3 rings, changed Jordan for the rookie Kukoc and went from winning 4-2 against the 2nd best team in the east in the 90s (Knicks) to losing 4-3 and win 55 to 53 in RS. The reality is that the bulls, changing the absolutely GOAT that will never be surpassed by anyone no matter what makes, the goat who won alone 6 finals for a rookie, almost made it to the final anyway.
And this has not happened with any other superteam who reach some finals in the history of the NBA, Kareem without Oscar no playoff, Lakers without Wilt 4-1 lost 1st round no playoff without west a year later, the Celtics without Russell no playoff, the Lakers reach the final and without Kareem they are almost swept by a worse team like the Suns, Lakers without shaq no playoff.........and I could write more and more examples

Bosh and Wade went from reaching 4 finals to not even make playoff changing lebron by 2x all star luol deng(and dont try to lie about clot issue because the record when bosh was healthy was worst and with less wins projected for the season ) Irving after 3 finals failed in superteams of stars Durant, Harden, Doncic, brown-horford-tatum-hayward-morris-rozier... Cleveland after 4 finals with love became the worst team of the nba like in 2010

[Homer38]

Well Jordan never played with an offensive player as talented as Irving or Wade in his career. He had to carry a bigger load offensively…Jordan had to carry the offensive load in 98…..but you knew that right?

And Jordan never picked his teammates like James did he? How many teammates did James help turn into HOF talent? A big 0

Same for Jordan...Pippen would been in the HOF,no matter what...One of the best 2 way players of all-time.LBJ always had a big load to carry on offense and also on defense....Jordan had so much help on defense, it was crazy and on offense, he could play to his strengths always and his team were great in offensive rebounds

LBJ often needed to be the best scorer, passer and defender of his team during his career.....The only true elite defender that LBJ has had in his career (Pippen caliber) is Davis..No Ben Wallace don't count,he was not the same he was in Detroit but of course if he would been healthy vs Magic in 2009,it would been huge for the cavs!

How in the world do you know how Pippen would have turned out if he wasn’t drafted by the Bulls? Lol seriously?

How many seasons has Davis averaged over 20 a game in his career? How about Wade? Kyrie? Love? You want to compare them to Pippen, Grant, and Kukoc? Yes the Bulls were great defensively. They were built around their defense. But Jordan was all defense 9 years. And he never played with a big as talented as Davis.

I mean, it's not because of Jordan that Pippen was such a great 2 way player....What we do know is that the Bulls would have been likely in the first seed in 1994 if Pippen would have been healthy at the start of the season and the first seed would have been huge for the bulls come playoffs time....Remember in the series against the knicks,every home team had won their game

Jordan had a lot more defensive talent in his career, no even close.LeBron was his team's best and most and versatile defensive player for 15 years.And offense ain't just about scoring and LBJ had to be the best playmaker and scorer on his team his entire career, the load that LBJ had to carry was crazy on both sides of the court...Jordan never needed to do that in his championship years and he didn't play against teams like the Warriors and Spurs who were top 5 in offense and defense in the 1990s

[art_tatum]

Why is a ist win making people argue again lol.
Fact is its not going to overcome the myth of Jordan and his bulls career/ marketing globalization in the 90s. Sure some of you have arguments or believe LeBron is goat but I'm speaking of general consensus, which always has LeBron between 25-33% in polls. ( Not just realgm lol)

LeBron might be a better player overall with his longevity, but his career Arch is just not fit to be goat compared to Jordans career Arch. People and naturally goats in different sports usually have the Jordan Arch, mostly 1 team two three peat dominance, international phenomenon.

I just can't see the polls ever giving LeBron even 33% of being goat unless he gets two more chips as the main guy. I'm not here to argue who's goat just stating the futility of it right now if the LeBron goat crowd hopes to get majority. If you care about general consensus then don't worry about arguing too much then.