2024 NBA Playoffs - East 1st Round: #4 Cleveland Cavaliers vs. #5 Orlando Magic (CLE WINS 4-3)

[jkvonny]

I just saw the 18 point comeback was the largest in a game 7 since 1998.

Was that the ECF game? Pacers should have beaten the Bulls!

[bmurph128]

I’m going to add something because people just refuse to admit it, but Evan Mobley was dominant in this series.

The points weren’t always there and in fact there were times where he was a liability at that end, but his defense was other worldly. Whether he was at PF and locking up Paolo (apart from game 3 where that man just couldn’t miss), or games 5-7 where he was dominant in the paint, he demonstrated to us all why he got so much hype in the first place. His defense is a game changer and the Cavs are very lucky to have him.

Dominant is the wrong word. Its just not appropriate IMO. He was a paint protector but it wasn't Gobert like. And I have a problem with calling someone dominant who looked so frail and soft, so often. But I agree he was very good, mostly because of his presence inside.

If he can up his volume of threes to around 4-5 game and keep his percentages high, with some extra credit scoring inside every now and then, I think that's the role he's built for.

Mobley held Paolo to below 30% shooting when he guarded him, and more often than not made him pass up on shot opportunities. And when he transitioned to center in games 5-7, Orlando’s inside offense was abysmal.

He was dominant. There is no argument against it.

I agree he was better in games 5-7, but Wagner absolutely ate Mobley alive the first few games of the series, which is pretty damning. Wagners game is tailor made for Mobley to defend - he can't shoot, he's not the quickest guy, doesn't have a ton of strength and is roughly Mobleys height and build.

If Mobley isn't going to consistently contribute on offense, he needs to at least be consistent on defense and in this series he wasn't. He had flashes of brilliance but also a slew of bad fouls and wasnt capable of guarding Wagner at times.

I don't expect Mobley to ever be able to guard Embiid and I'd expect him to struggle with Giannid and other elite players - but Franz Wagner?

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[Revived]

If you’re an Orlando fan, you have a lot to be excited about going forward. I genuinely hope they don’t ruin the path they’re on right now by going and overpaying some veteran “star” player that’s close to being washed some $30-$40M/yr contract. Especially guys that may not be the best influence on younger players.

Excited for Cavs fans. Next series should be closer than people think. I wonder if Jarrett Allen will be available game 1?

[Zukkoyaki]

There's something cookin down in Florida and this time it ain't meth

[JujitsuFlip]

I just saw the 18 point comeback was the largest in a game 7 since 1998.

Was that the ECF game? Pacers should have beaten the Bulls!

Yup, Cavs is the largest comeback in history, in a game 7. Bulls came back from down 13, in that 1998 ECF.

[Iwasawitness]

Dominant is the wrong word. Its just not appropriate IMO. He was a paint protector but it wasn't Gobert like. And I have a problem with calling someone dominant who looked so frail and soft, so often. But I agree he was very good, mostly because of his presence inside.

If he can up his volume of threes to around 4-5 game and keep his percentages high, with some extra credit scoring inside every now and then, I think that's the role he's built for.

Mobley held Paolo to below 30% shooting when he guarded him, and more often than not made him pass up on shot opportunities. And when he transitioned to center in games 5-7, Orlando’s inside offense was abysmal.

He was dominant. There is no argument against it.

I agree he was better in games 5-7, but Wagner absolutely ate Mobley alive the first few games of the series, which is pretty damning. Wagners game is tailor made for Mobley to defend - he can't shoot, he's not the quickest guy, doesn't have a ton of strength and is roughly Mobleys height and build.

If Mobley isn't going to consistently contribute on offense, he needs to at least be consistent on defense and in this series he wasn't. He had flashes of brilliance but also a slew of bad fouls and wasnt capable of guarding Wagner at times.

I don't expect Mobley to ever be able to guard Embiid and I'd expect him to struggle with Giannid and other elite players - but Franz Wagner?

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Mobley rarely guarded Wagner in the first four games. It was normally Strus or a smaller player who was tasked with guarding him. So I’m not sure where you’re getting your info from or if you just made this up out of thin air, but Wagner most definitely wasn’t “cooking” him.

[JujitsuFlip]

Mobley held Paolo to below 30% shooting when he guarded him, and more often than not made him pass up on shot opportunities. And when he transitioned to center in games 5-7, Orlando’s inside offense was abysmal.

He was dominant. There is no argument against it.

I agree he was better in games 5-7, but Wagner absolutely ate Mobley alive the first few games of the series, which is pretty damning. Wagners game is tailor made for Mobley to defend - he can't shoot, he's not the quickest guy, doesn't have a ton of strength and is roughly Mobleys height and build.

If Mobley isn't going to consistently contribute on offense, he needs to at least be consistent on defense and in this series he wasn't. He had flashes of brilliance but also a slew of bad fouls and wasnt capable of guarding Wagner at times.

I don't expect Mobley to ever be able to guard Embiid and I'd expect him to struggle with Giannid and other elite players - but Franz Wagner?

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Mobley rarely guarded Wagner in the first four games. It was normally Strus or a smaller player who was tasked with guarding him. So I’m not sure where you’re getting your info from or if you just made this up out of thin air, but Wagner most definitely wasn’t “cooking” him.

I second this, through the first 6 games Mobley only guarded Franz for 5 minutes and some change. He musta been thinking of a different player.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630532/head-to-head?SeasonType=Playoffs&Matchup=Offense

[Iwasawitness]

I agree he was better in games 5-7, but Wagner absolutely ate Mobley alive the first few games of the series, which is pretty damning. Wagners game is tailor made for Mobley to defend - he can't shoot, he's not the quickest guy, doesn't have a ton of strength and is roughly Mobleys height and build.

If Mobley isn't going to consistently contribute on offense, he needs to at least be consistent on defense and in this series he wasn't. He had flashes of brilliance but also a slew of bad fouls and wasnt capable of guarding Wagner at times.

I don't expect Mobley to ever be able to guard Embiid and I'd expect him to struggle with Giannid and other elite players - but Franz Wagner?

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Mobley rarely guarded Wagner in the first four games. It was normally Strus or a smaller player who was tasked with guarding him. So I’m not sure where you’re getting your info from or if you just made this up out of thin air, but Wagner most definitely wasn’t “cooking” him.

I second this, through the first 6 games Mobley only guarded Franz for 5 minutes and some change. He musta been thinking of a different player.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630532/head-to-head?SeasonType=Playoffs&Matchup=Offense

Five total minutes. Wow he guarded him even less than I thought.

[KGDirkTD_Fan]

Dominant is the wrong word. Its just not appropriate IMO. He was a paint protector but it wasn't Gobert like. And I have a problem with calling someone dominant who looked so frail and soft, so often. But I agree he was very good, mostly because of his presence inside.

If he can up his volume of threes to around 4-5 game and keep his percentages high, with some extra credit scoring inside every now and then, I think that's the role he's built for.

Mobley held Paolo to below 30% shooting when he guarded him, and more often than not made him pass up on shot opportunities. And when he transitioned to center in games 5-7, Orlando’s inside offense was abysmal.

He was dominant. There is no argument against it.

I agree he was better in games 5-7, but Wagner absolutely ate Mobley alive the first few games of the series, which is pretty damning. Wagners game is tailor made for Mobley to defend - he can't shoot, he's not the quickest guy, doesn't have a ton of strength and is roughly Mobleys height and build.

If Mobley isn't going to consistently contribute on offense, he needs to at least be consistent on defense and in this series he wasn't. He had flashes of brilliance but also a slew of bad fouls and wasnt capable of guarding Wagner at times.

I don't expect Mobley to ever be able to guard Embiid and I'd expect him to struggle with Giannid and other elite players - but Franz Wagner?

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Mobley had stretches of being a very good starting center in the series no doubt. He is miles behind of Ruby Gobert though. He did his job well and came through when the Cavs needed him to.

The thing with Mobley is we still don't know what kind of player he ultimately will be..partially because of the unique roster situation. Should he add some range to the game and play more of the 4, should he add some muscle and specialize on the defense end + lobs like a Rudy Gobert or can he be somewhere in the middle like a Bam I don't know but he's looked good in this series at the 5 but he wouldn't have enough strength and defensive discipline to take on the Jokic/Embiid/Giannis of the world, he would get cooked badly. But he's done a pretty good job thus far on the defensive end...on to Boston next.

[Residual-Heat]

Disappointing end, but still very happy with this Magic team. Now we get to look forward to the offseason and how the FO will use their capspace and assets to bring in more help. Wish they made a move before the trade deadline, as most Magic fans wanted to see happen, but it is what it is.

Congrats Cavs fans.

[JujitsuFlip]

Gotta give Mobley his flowers.

[bmurph128]

Mobley held Paolo to below 30% shooting when he guarded him, and more often than not made him pass up on shot opportunities. And when he transitioned to center in games 5-7, Orlando’s inside offense was abysmal.

He was dominant. There is no argument against it.

I agree he was better in games 5-7, but Wagner absolutely ate Mobley alive the first few games of the series, which is pretty damning. Wagners game is tailor made for Mobley to defend - he can't shoot, he's not the quickest guy, doesn't have a ton of strength and is roughly Mobleys height and build.

If Mobley isn't going to consistently contribute on offense, he needs to at least be consistent on defense and in this series he wasn't. He had flashes of brilliance but also a slew of bad fouls and wasnt capable of guarding Wagner at times.

I don't expect Mobley to ever be able to guard Embiid and I'd expect him to struggle with Giannid and other elite players - but Franz Wagner?

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Mobley rarely guarded Wagner in the first four games. It was normally Strus or a smaller player who was tasked with guarding him. So I’m not sure where you’re getting your info from or if you just made this up out of thin air, but Wagner most definitely wasn’t “cooking” him.

It was an article from the athletic which is behind a pay wall - but in the first four games, Mobley guarded for Franz for 4 minutes and in those 4 minutes Wagner scored 24 points on Mobley which...just can't happen

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[bmurph128]

I agree he was better in games 5-7, but Wagner absolutely ate Mobley alive the first few games of the series, which is pretty damning. Wagners game is tailor made for Mobley to defend - he can't shoot, he's not the quickest guy, doesn't have a ton of strength and is roughly Mobleys height and build.

If Mobley isn't going to consistently contribute on offense, he needs to at least be consistent on defense and in this series he wasn't. He had flashes of brilliance but also a slew of bad fouls and wasnt capable of guarding Wagner at times.

I don't expect Mobley to ever be able to guard Embiid and I'd expect him to struggle with Giannid and other elite players - but Franz Wagner?

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Mobley rarely guarded Wagner in the first four games. It was normally Strus or a smaller player who was tasked with guarding him. So I’m not sure where you’re getting your info from or if you just made this up out of thin air, but Wagner most definitely wasn’t “cooking” him.

I second this, through the first 6 games Mobley only guarded Franz for 5 minutes and some change. He musta been thinking of a different player.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630532/head-to-head?SeasonType=Playoffs&Matchup=Offense

Oh nope that's what I was thinking. Check the points scored on Mobley there....almost unbelievable

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[jbk1234]

Mobley rarely guarded Wagner in the first four games. It was normally Strus or a smaller player who was tasked with guarding him. So I’m not sure where you’re getting your info from or if you just made this up out of thin air, but Wagner most definitely wasn’t “cooking” him.

I second this, through the first 6 games Mobley only guarded Franz for 5 minutes and some change. He musta been thinking of a different player.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630532/head-to-head?SeasonType=Playoffs&Matchup=Offense

Oh nope that's what I was thinking. Check the points scored on Mobley there....almost unbelievable

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My one criticism of Mobley when he plays the 4, is that he tends to over help, often unnecessarily, and leaves his guy unguarded.

[CIN-C-STAR]

I agree he was better in games 5-7, but Wagner absolutely ate Mobley alive the first few games of the series, which is pretty damning. Wagners game is tailor made for Mobley to defend - he can't shoot, he's not the quickest guy, doesn't have a ton of strength and is roughly Mobleys height and build.

If Mobley isn't going to consistently contribute on offense, he needs to at least be consistent on defense and in this series he wasn't. He had flashes of brilliance but also a slew of bad fouls and wasnt capable of guarding Wagner at times.

I don't expect Mobley to ever be able to guard Embiid and I'd expect him to struggle with Giannid and other elite players - but Franz Wagner?

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Mobley rarely guarded Wagner in the first four games. It was normally Strus or a smaller player who was tasked with guarding him. So I’m not sure where you’re getting your info from or if you just made this up out of thin air, but Wagner most definitely wasn’t “cooking” him.

It was an article from the athletic which is behind a pay wall - but in the first four games, Mobley guarded for Franz for 4 minutes and in those 4 minutes Wagner scored 24 points on Mobley which...just can't happen

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I mean, kinda hard to judge a guy by 5 minutes of floor time without context though.
Did Wagner hit 3s during that time, and was the Cavs game plan to leave him open from 3 since he struggled there all season? If so, this is completely meaningless unless your mad at him for just doing his job.
Mobley also has a lot of help responsibility at times. Did he have to help off Wagner because of others poor defense, and no one helped him in return?
Again, context is key. I just gave two examples off the top of my head where the numbers you cited would be rendered almost meaningless in those cases.

[toooskies]

Big thanks to Orlando for such a hard-fought series. Genuinely I think both teams will be better for it.

JBB has shown a lot of growth. Went to Morris, saw it work, saw him fade, went away from him.

JBB called his timeouts more effectively than he ever has.

Garland had an awful three quarters of a game and figured things out in time to seal the fourth quarter.

Mitchell got over trying to be a superstar and was. And he remembered that the final step in being a superstar is making his teammates better.

Mobley was huge all night on the boards and on defense.

Allen thrived under the bright lights, until his injury took him out.

The Cavs are a young team-- just Mitchell in his prime-- and there's been a lot of growth over seven games.

[bmurph128]

Mobley rarely guarded Wagner in the first four games. It was normally Strus or a smaller player who was tasked with guarding him. So I’m not sure where you’re getting your info from or if you just made this up out of thin air, but Wagner most definitely wasn’t “cooking” him.

It was an article from the athletic which is behind a pay wall - but in the first four games, Mobley guarded for Franz for 4 minutes and in those 4 minutes Wagner scored 24 points on Mobley which...just can't happen

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I mean, kinda hard to judge a guy by 5 minutes of floor time without context though.
Did Wagner hit 3s during that time, and was the Cavs game plan to leave him open from 3 since he struggled there all season? If so, this is completely meaningless unless your mad at him for just doing his job.
Mobley also has a lot of help responsibility at times. Did he have to help off Wagner because of others poor defense, and no one helped him in return?
Again, context is key. I just gave two examples off the top of my head where the numbers you cited would be rendered almost meaningless in those cases.

Just one three - but we also watched the games here - Wagner truly did beat him one on one quite a bit when he was guarding him.

And I mean look - in a vacuum that's fine. Mobley is a solid starter and a good player overall.

My assessment of him this season has been with his future contract in mind.

Is he a plus for the Cavs? Absolutely.

Is he worth the contract he will get? Hell no. And for the Cavs we're coming up on decision time. When his offensive game is so lacking - and I'm not trying to rag on the guy, but no jump shot, no real post game, has trouble just handling the ball in the paint - not only does it not make sense to pay him that much, he also doubles as our most valuable trade chip aside from Mitchell this off-season. So for me it's a no brainer to move him to improve the team.

So for him to match the value that some other Cavs fans seem to apply to him, to me, he needs to be elite on defense as a standard. But he has lapses there too, which showed up in this series from time to time. Again....that's okay if we're saying he won't be worth that contract and that we accept he's just an above average starter right now, who some nights just plays like a role player. But if people are going to say he's more than that, we can't have it both ways....we can't say he's more than that and then just dismiss the actual valid concerns.

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[JujitsuFlip]

Mobley rarely guarded Wagner in the first four games. It was normally Strus or a smaller player who was tasked with guarding him. So I’m not sure where you’re getting your info from or if you just made this up out of thin air, but Wagner most definitely wasn’t “cooking” him.

I second this, through the first 6 games Mobley only guarded Franz for 5 minutes and some change. He musta been thinking of a different player.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630532/head-to-head?SeasonType=Playoffs&Matchup=Offense

Oh nope that's what I was thinking. Check the points scored on Mobley there....almost unbelievable

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It's tough as a big though, if Mobley is the closest to Wagner when he shoots, then it tracks as his defensive possession.

[Residual-Heat]

Mobley rarely guarded Wagner in the first four games. It was normally Strus or a smaller player who was tasked with guarding him. So I’m not sure where you’re getting your info from or if you just made this up out of thin air, but Wagner most definitely wasn’t “cooking” him.

I second this, through the first 6 games Mobley only guarded Franz for 5 minutes and some change. He musta been thinking of a different player.

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1630532/head-to-head?SeasonType=Playoffs&Matchup=Offense

Oh nope that's what I was thinking. Check the points scored on Mobley there....almost unbelievable

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He certainly was not afraid of attacking Mobley. He had some success for sure as the stats say, but Mobley had his moments as well. Everyone remembers the block in game 5, but forget Franz had literally just scored on him on the previous possession.

[Iwasawitness]

Mobley rarely guarded Wagner in the first four games. It was normally Strus or a smaller player who was tasked with guarding him. So I’m not sure where you’re getting your info from or if you just made this up out of thin air, but Wagner most definitely wasn’t “cooking” him.

It was an article from the athletic which is behind a pay wall - but in the first four games, Mobley guarded for Franz for 4 minutes and in those 4 minutes Wagner scored 24 points on Mobley which...just can't happen

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I mean, kinda hard to judge a guy by 5 minutes of floor time without context though.
Did Wagner hit 3s during that time, and was the Cavs game plan to leave him open from 3 since he struggled there all season? If so, this is completely meaningless unless your mad at him for just doing his job.
Mobley also has a lot of help responsibility at times. Did he have to help off Wagner because of others poor defense, and no one helped him in return?
Again, context is key. I just gave two examples off the top of my head where the numbers you cited would be rendered almost meaningless in those cases.

Pretty much all of this. FYI, most of Wagners buckets on Mobley were in situations where Mobley was forced to switch on him and wasn’t even in position to do anything about it, or where Mobley was trying to close out on him while open. Again, Franz didn’t light up Mobley at all.