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This is the playoffs and KD is out there with that goofy grin clapping and cheering Antman on while he is getting destroyed. Not only is he beyond soft, but I also think he just doesn't care about winning anymore.

Isiahthomass wrote:This is the playoffs and KD is out there with that goofy grin clapping and cheering Antman on while he is getting destroyed. Not only is he beyond soft, but I also think he just doesn't care about winning anymore.

Durant marries eye popping efficiency with totally nonexistent game impact as fascinatingly as anyone I’ve seen in my 35 years of watching the NBA. Westbrook and Harden had ridiculous stat production, nowhere near the shooting prowess, but still also horrible playoff winning impact players at their peaks as well. All three basketball IQs so much lower than the NBA media and casual fans realize.

KD has 2 finals MVPs. Keyboard warriors determining what's impactful and what isn't has always made me cringe.

SweaterBae wrote:KD has 2 finals MVPs. Keyboard warriors determining what's impactful and what isn't has always made me cringe.

You can continue to cringe that’s fine. All he was asked to do in GS was be a safety release for pressure and do whatever Draymond told him to defending weakside. Even he doesn’t value those MVPS, he knew Draymond was 100% correct in saying they didn’t need him as they undoubtedly proved as much.

benhillboy wrote:

SweaterBae wrote:KD has 2 finals MVPs. Keyboard warriors determining what's impactful and what isn't has always made me cringe.

You can continue to cringe that’s fine. All he was asked to do in GS was be a safety release for pressure and do whatever Draymond told him to defending weakside. Even he doesn’t value those MVPS, he knew Draymond was 100% correct in saying they didn’t need him as they undoubtedly proved as much.

Now his finals MVPs don't count because it undermines your narrative. Impressive mental gymnastics. I don't like KD the person anymore than you do, presumably, but saying he doesn't impact the game is an absolutely aburd take.

Oh, and what happened in the finals when KD was injured with the calf and then achilles? That's right, GS lost.

Isiahthomass wrote:This is the playoffs and KD is out there with that goofy grin clapping and cheering Antman on while he is getting destroyed. Not only is he beyond soft, but I also think he just doesn't care about winning anymore.

It ain't that deep. Man is just enjoying the moment and recognizes himself in Edwards, when he was a youngin barking at Kobe.

CobraCommander wrote:

Phystic wrote:

CobraCommander wrote:Showing up is getting the win.

We know KD can generate buckets for himself but can he generate wins for the team?

It’s why Jokic and Giannis have surpassed him on the all time list already and We expect Luka and SGA to surpass him as well. Getting buckets but having your team under achieve is what we saw from Melo for years - no one is impressed - well I’m not

No it's not. Winning requires team effort that's why Jokic last prior to last year. And Giannis did too.

Didn't say to be impressed. That loss is not on KD.

Ok let me be clear -

I’m saying KD is a great player -

But when I compare him to the greatest players - the absolute best- they will their teams to win… give me that one time KD literally was the catalyst that took a team that has no business winning and he overcame the situation and the team won?

I’ll wait - this dude goes into every series with the best players on his squad and somehow minus curry - he loses - no other great says that

How about beating the 2012 and 2016 spurs? You could say what you're saying about guys like Giannis and Jokic too. When have they been in a situation where they had no business winning and won a series? Both iterations of those spurs teams are much better than any team Giannis or Jokic has led a team past.

KD is just a little past his prime at this point. Don't act like he hasn't done anything though. If Booker shows up this could be a series, too.

What's the solution to being outrebounded 52-28? You can't outshoot that.

Wolves decided that KD isos against bigs were the thing they were going to live with. What they weren't willing to live with was boatloads of threes for Beal/Allen, runways for Booker coming off screens, and bigs getting loose in the paint. The Wolves played a masterful defensive game, taking away all the things that worked for the Suns in their regular season matchups. The Suns looked at what the defense was giving them, and all they could find was a good KD matchup so they fed that out of desperation.

KD iso (unless it draws a double) is Phoenix's "break in case of emergency" scoring weapon. It should be saved for moments where they desperately need a bucket. When I watched them start the 1st and 3rd quarters with KD iso, instead of establishing their team offense, I knew it was going to be Timberwolves basketball.

A lot of people talk about playoff games with "who showed up" or "KD's teammantes let him down" and/or bigger nonsense.

Not that someone can't have an off night but: most of the time, who does and doesn't "show up" has to do with the opponent's defensive game plan.

Katie can't with these cats!! Get him some help- like prime Curry, Thompson and Dray

CobraCommander wrote:

Patches Perry wrote:

CobraCommander wrote:What does Beal bring if only scores 15 points? You understand how much of their cap Beal takes for 15 points lol

You're both right in a sense, it's more of a management failure. This is why I'm always skeptical of the 3rd (offensive) superstar. Big threes where all three are primarily offensive stars have severe diminishing returns for the 3rd guy. The ideal mix imo is two superstars plus a 3rd defensive superstar, or a bunch of really good utility/3&D players. Beal was an awful signing. They should have targeted defensive and shooting with that space/capital.

Beal can’t be a primary ball handler, can’t guard his position, is undersized and is giving you 15 points for 53
Mil…. Naw bro - that’s not good

If the Suns traded for pre injury Beal I would have been happy with the trade but this version of Beal isn't the same as 25 year old Beal. Ishbia tried to thumb his nose at Silver and said "to hell with the salary cap" and now with a thin bench and no young developing players under cheap rookie contracts this roster is going to be very difficult to improve.

The Suns had a good thing going after the 2021 finals run and with a little tweaking could still have a contending team with a young core but the combination of a lazy GM in JJ who refused to make moves to upgrade the roster and then finally with a new and moronic impatient owner doomed the team to one most likely to be mired in mediocrity and salary cap hell for the next half decade.

This video breakdowns the defensive scheme Suns tried (that worked in regular season), but Ant outsmarted this time:

https://youtu.be/Xa1HeNyENGk?si=XzIMLn-H16KIv_GT

cupcakesnake wrote:Wolves decided that KD isos against bigs were the thing they were going to live with. What they weren't willing to live with was boatloads of threes for Beal/Allen, runways for Booker coming off screens, and bigs getting loose in the paint. The Wolves played a masterful defensive game, taking away all the things that worked for the Suns in their regular season matchups. The Suns looked at what the defense was giving them, and all they could find was a good KD matchup so they fed that out of desperation.

KD iso (unless it draws a double) is Phoenix's "break in case of emergency" scoring weapon. It should be saved for moments where they desperately need a bucket. When I watched them start the 1st and 3rd quarters with KD iso, instead of establishing their team offense, I knew it was going to be Timberwolves basketball.

A lot of people talk about playoff games with "who showed up" or "KD's teammantes let him down" and/or bigger nonsense.

Not that someone can't have an off night but: most of the time, who does and doesn't "show up" has to do with the opponent's defensive game plan.

100% agree with all of this. But also want to add, it's not just our break glass in case of emergency. It's mainly our "lazy, and why make an effort on offense" plan. They do it with both Book and KD.

I get we have ISO players so it's inevitably going to be in the offensive scheme. But it ALWAYS destroys our game. Makes zero sense why they continue to do it

Phystic wrote:

cupcakesnake wrote:Wolves decided that KD isos against bigs were the thing they were going to live with. What they weren't willing to live with was boatloads of threes for Beal/Allen, runways for Booker coming off screens, and bigs getting loose in the paint. The Wolves played a masterful defensive game, taking away all the things that worked for the Suns in their regular season matchups. The Suns looked at what the defense was giving them, and all they could find was a good KD matchup so they fed that out of desperation.

KD iso (unless it draws a double) is Phoenix's "break in case of emergency" scoring weapon. It should be saved for moments where they desperately need a bucket. When I watched them start the 1st and 3rd quarters with KD iso, instead of establishing their team offense, I knew it was going to be Timberwolves basketball.

A lot of people talk about playoff games with "who showed up" or "KD's teammantes let him down" and/or bigger nonsense.

Not that someone can't have an off night but: most of the time, who does and doesn't "show up" has to do with the opponent's defensive game plan.

100% agree with all of this. But also want to add, it's not just our break glass in case of emergency. It's mainly our "lazy, and why make an effort on offense" plan. They do it with both Book and KD.

I get we have ISO players so it's inevitably going to be in the offensive scheme. But it ALWAYS destroys our game. Makes zero sense why they continue to do it

I think it's more what the defense forces you into, rather than what the offense decides to do. We tend to assume the agency is with the offense because they control the ball, but a good defense is working hard to take away your preferred actions.

The Suns didn't come into each half with the game plan, let's just dump the ball into KD and let him work. They ran their primary action, hoping to get one of their guard attacking with advantage. When there's any kidn of breakdown and you see KD with a favorable matchup, it's the right call to throw it to him because he's going to get you a good look.

It's an amazing luxury to have a KD iso against a favorable matchup as a counter, but when the defense forces you into your counters specifically, you're not going to get the shots you need to win. Kill the primary action, defend as best you can against the secondary option (don't let the secondary option be a wide open look!) and you've done your job on defense.

It felt clear the Suns wanted to do exactly what they did against the Wolves in the regular season against our base defensive scheme where we funnel shooters into the middle. I was also terrified that would happen but also felt: hey there's no way we don't adjust the base..right? RIGHT!? Wolves instead overloaded the middle, scattered the Suns the sides, and that was basically the game.

The Suns have options and have firepower. There's no way the Wolves contain Booker like that for a full series. I think the more concerning thing for the Suns was the bench scoring and rebounding, because those things feel more or less sustainable without the Suns doing something serious about them. Royce O'Neale and Eric Gordon are the only guys who you really expect to score off that bench. Nurkic is the only guy you expect to hold his own on the boards against giant Wolves lineups.

Which Son is going to hit the Dagger 3 to cut the lead to 33 in Game 7?

garrick wrote:

CobraCommander wrote:

Patches Perry wrote:
You're both right in a sense, it's more of a management failure. This is why I'm always skeptical of the 3rd (offensive) superstar. Big threes where all three are primarily offensive stars have severe diminishing returns for the 3rd guy. The ideal mix imo is two superstars plus a 3rd defensive superstar, or a bunch of really good utility/3&D players. Beal was an awful signing. They should have targeted defensive and shooting with that space/capital.

Beal can’t be a primary ball handler, can’t guard his position, is undersized and is giving you 15 points for 53
Mil…. Naw bro - that’s not good

If the Suns traded for pre injury Beal I would have been happy with the trade but this version of Beal isn't the same as 25 year old Beal. Ishbia tried to thumb his nose at Silver and said "to hell with the salary cap" and now with a thin bench and no young developing players under cheap rookie contracts this roster is going to be very difficult to improve.

The Suns had a good thing going after the 2021 finals run and with a little tweaking could still have a contending team with a young core but the combination of a lazy GM in JJ who refused to make moves to upgrade the roster and then finally with a new and moronic impatient owner doomed the team to one most likely to be mired in mediocrity and salary cap hell for the next half decade.

Lol, that 2021 core already showed its limited ceiling in 2022. None of Bridges, Johnson, Payne, and Paul are in the playoffs.

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spanishninja wrote:

garrick wrote:

CobraCommander wrote:Beal can’t be a primary ball handler, can’t guard his position, is undersized and is giving you 15 points for 53
Mil…. Naw bro - that’s not good

If the Suns traded for pre injury Beal I would have been happy with the trade but this version of Beal isn't the same as 25 year old Beal. Ishbia tried to thumb his nose at Silver and said "to hell with the salary cap" and now with a thin bench and no young developing players under cheap rookie contracts this roster is going to be very difficult to improve.

The Suns had a good thing going after the 2021 finals run and with a little tweaking could still have a contending team with a young core but the combination of a lazy GM in JJ who refused to make moves to upgrade the roster and then finally with a new and moronic impatient owner doomed the team to one most likely to be mired in mediocrity and salary cap hell for the next half decade.

Lol, that 2021 core already showed its limited ceiling in 2022. None of Bridges, Johnson, Payne, and Paul are in the playoffs.

Sent from my SM-S926U using RealGM mobile app

How did JJ tweak that core? Collectively it's a good team but you had to address the aging CP3 issue which JJ never did nor did we get try to address the issue of a decent backup PF/C.

You didn't necessary have to keep the entirety of the core together but he should have tried to get Grayson Allen when he was available, maybe ship out one of Bridges, Cam or Ayton instead of heavily pick swapping our future 1sts or trading them outright to the Nets.

People are sleeping on Antman. Somehow one of the most hyped players isn't being hyped enough. It's all in the eye test. I was high on him when he was drafted. I didn't see him becoming this good. Everyone saying oh he's going to be the face of the league/best player in a few yrs is in for a big surprise this postseason as he's ready now

I now know what MJ would look like in 2024 #Edwards

ConstableChaos wrote:I now know what MJ would look like in 2024 #Edwards

Speaking of MJ.... Even he is impressed

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