No free pass for Lebron

[DonaldSanders]

Of course You can’t have it both ways. You can’t stroke Lebron when he has a nice game or breaks some cumulative stats record and then let him off of the hook when he stinks it up in the playoffs by reminding people he’s 39. Typical response from a Lebron homer.

Actually you can have it both ways with a player this old. I don't think anyone here would describe me as a LeBron fan if they read my posts, but a 39 year old player is free rolling. If LeBron manages to win a chip and is FMVP, it only enhances his legacy. If he looks tired like he has in the 2nd half of Nugget playoff games, it doesn't hurt his legacy. Nobody is supposed to be a great at this age.

Maybe it annoys people who really don't like LeBron, but whatever he does now is gravy. The only downside for him is people seeing a legend look mortal 2 years in a row may distort who LeBron was for some of the youngest fans who didn't watch him in his prime.

[OdomFan]

LOL. Your definition of Jordan doing “very well” at LeBron’s age would be an absolutely horrendous season for LeBron. If LeBron played the way Jordan did in the last two season of his career, people on here would be clowning him and saying this old bum needs to retire. But when it’s Jordan… the man could’ve stepped on the court and taken a dump at center court and people like you would be drooling all over him.

My definition is the same as any other definition. Those Wizards were in a playoff spot, and he was in the 2002 MVP race. Then he got injured.

In 2019 Lebron had a similar scenario. The Lakers were in a playoff spot. Lebron got hurt, and they lost said playoff spot.

Go check and see how many games were missed by each teams top 8 players and you'll see that 'once again' there's no comparison.

Doesn't matter how many games. its still similar outcome.

[The4thHorseman]

If the Lakers get swept by Denver this year, it’ll mean that a Lebron led team with prime AD by his side lost EIGHT CONSECUTIVE PLAYOFF GAMES while also missing the playoffs for two seasons during his tenure in LA. Lebron might get a free pass from ESPN, Nick Wright, Shannon Sharpe and kids who started watching the NBA in 2015 but not from me. Lebron managed to win a single game in the 2017 and 2018 Finals COMBINED and is on track to do even worse in the 2023 and 2024 playoffs against Denver (combined). This is your GOAT? A guy who normalizes losing more than winning? A guy who had 7 turnovers last night and attempted his first shot in the 4th quarter with a minute remaining?

If MJ gets a pass for every single failure.
And he's considered GOAT by most.

then it is ok for LeBron or anyone to get a pass for losing.

Who was MJ's Anthony Davis in the 80's when he had those playoff failures? Heck he didn't even have an Austin Reeves before Scottie, and when he did have Scottie in the 80's and they lost to the Pistons Scottie averaged 8 points per game while Jordan was averaging 35. Absolutely no comparison to Lebron losing to the Mavs with both Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh. Context is a b**** ain't it?

Since it's just win or shut up no excuses why did Lebron miss the playoffs his first two seasons? Because you're giving Jordan no pass for being young and having bad teammates I won't give Lebron that pass either. Since context doesn't matter to you no pass for being 39 either.

The Bulls win totals in 85 and 86 wouldn't have been enough to get to the postseason in 2005 and 2006 in the East.

[ChipotleWest]

If MJ gets a pass for every single failure.
And he's considered GOAT by most.

then it is ok for LeBron or anyone to get a pass for losing.

Who was MJ's Anthony Davis in the 80's when he had those playoff failures? Heck he didn't even have an Austin Reeves before Scottie, and when he did have Scottie in the 80's and they lost to the Pistons Scottie averaged 8 points per game while Jordan was averaging 35. Absolutely no comparison to Lebron losing to the Mavs with both Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh. Context is a b**** ain't it?

Since it's just win or shut up no excuses why did Lebron miss the playoffs his first two seasons? Because you're giving Jordan no pass for being young and having bad teammates I won't give Lebron that pass either. Since context doesn't matter to you no pass for being 39 either.

The Bulls win totals in 85 and 86 wouldn't have been enough to get to the postseason in 2005 and 2006 in the East.

That's the point who cares, Jordan and Lebron had bad teams and were young. Jordan had multiple teammates leave the team who were on cocaine. Just because you're a great player does not mean you're just going to carry a team to a championship especially when you're young, in fact that's never happened in the history of the NBA. The only great players under 25 to win a ring were drafted by a team that already had a top 50 player of all time. So this idea that Jordan should have won when he was young is absurd because literally no one has done it without help.

[ChipotleWest]

Lebron is 39 lol.

Of course You can’t have it both ways. You can’t stroke Lebron when he has a nice game or breaks some cumulative stats record and then let him off of the hook when he stinks it up in the playoffs by reminding people he’s 39. Typical response from a Lebron homer.

Remind us all of what Jordan was doing at 39.

In his last two seasons with the WIzards he still averaged 20+ ppg. He wasn't terrible at all but wasn't prime MJ, Lebron is better at 39 than MJ I'll give him that, but it's not by a massive margin. As far as winning games though who was MJ's Anthony Davis on those Wizards teams?

[The4thHorseman]

My definition is the same as any other definition. Those Wizards were in a playoff spot, and he was in the 2002 MVP race. Then he got injured.

In 2019 Lebron had a similar scenario. The Lakers were in a playoff spot. Lebron got hurt, and they lost said playoff spot.

Go check and see how many games were missed by each teams top 8 players and you'll see that 'once again' there's no comparison.

Doesn't matter how many games. its still similar outcome.

Of course it matters. Only those in denial would think otherwise. If MJ hadn't walked away twice he would've never been playing in 2002 to begin with.

[infinite11285]

Of course You can’t have it both ways. You can’t stroke Lebron when he has a nice game or breaks some cumulative stats record and then let him off of the hook when he stinks it up in the playoffs by reminding people he’s 39. Typical response from a Lebron homer.

Remind us all of what Jordan was doing at 39.

In his last two seasons with the WIzards he still averaged 20+ ppg. He wasn't terrible at all but wasn't prime MJ. And again who was MJ's Anthony Davis on those Wizards teams?

As a reminder, MJ returned to the game to perpetually miss the playoffs and pad stats for a fifth-place trophy after scoring +30k points.

LeBron, at 39, is objectively a better player than MJ and any other player at the same age. And it's not close. A lot of you guys have missed the plot w/ LeBron. Anything henceforth is cherry topping; his legacy is set.

[ChipotleWest]

Go check and see how many games were missed by each teams top 8 players and you'll see that 'once again' there's no comparison.

Doesn't matter how many games. its still similar outcome.

Of course it matters. Only those in denial would think otherwise. If MJ hadn't walked away twice he would've never been playing in 2002 to begin with.

The first time he left his father had been murdered. It's not right to judge him for that if Lebron had went through that he might have left basketball too. Second time the Bulls were getting rid of Phil and he did it on principle. Could he have just gone to another team instead sure, but for whatever reason that wasn't his mindset at the time.

[NyKnicks1714]

This board needs a stickied LeBron hate circlejerk thread.

[ChipotleWest]

Remind us all of what Jordan was doing at 39.

In his last two seasons with the WIzards he still averaged 20+ ppg. He wasn't terrible at all but wasn't prime MJ. And again who was MJ's Anthony Davis on those Wizards teams?

As a reminder, MJ returned to the game to perpetually miss the playoffs and pad stats for a fifth-place trophy after scoring +30k points.

What place did Lebron's team get? And again I ask who was MJ's Anthony Davis?

You're kind of making the point MJ's Wizard run was for nostalgia only that wasn't a serious team to contend for a title he did it because he loves basketball and because I'm sure every day someone would ask him when he's coming back. Let's kill him for it.

We know Lebron was padding stats to get to 40,000.

[AlexanderRight]

Nobody outside his PR team, homers, and people born less than two seconds ago legitimately believe Lebron is the GOAT. Another season ending whimper isn’t gonna prove anything that real basketball fans don’t already know.

[The4thHorseman]

Who was MJ's Anthony Davis in the 80's when he had those playoff failures? Heck he didn't even have an Austin Reeves before Scottie, and when he did have Scottie in the 80's and they lost to the Pistons Scottie averaged 8 points per game while Jordan was averaging 35. Absolutely no comparison to Lebron losing to the Mavs with both Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh. Context is a b**** ain't it?

Since it's just win or shut up no excuses why did Lebron miss the playoffs his first two seasons? Because you're giving Jordan no pass for being young and having bad teammates I won't give Lebron that pass either. Since context doesn't matter to you no pass for being 39 either.

The Bulls win totals in 85 and 86 wouldn't have been enough to get to the postseason in 2005 and 2006 in the East.

That's the point who cares, Jordan and Lebron had bad teams and were young. Jordan had multiple teammates leave the team who were on cocaine. Just because you're a great player does not mean you're just going to carry a team to a championship especially when you're young, in fact that's never happened in the history of the NBA. The only great players under 25 to win a ring were drafted by a team that already had a top 50 player of all time. So this idea that Jordan should have won when he was young is absurd because literally no one has done it without help.

All I did was answer your question. Plus, there is no 63pt game that MJ gets much praise for considering the Bulls 30 wins in 1986 wouldn't be making any postseason after that point.

[art_tatum]

at this point in time LeBrons failures won't damage his legacy. any success will enhance it if it's finals or title.

the damage was done when he was in his prime, and so were his accomplishments.
people who can't overlook his shortcomings and decisions in his prime won't have him as goat either way.

[infinite11285]

In his last two seasons with the WIzards he still averaged 20+ ppg. He wasn't terrible at all but wasn't prime MJ. And again who was MJ's Anthony Davis on those Wizards teams?

As a reminder, MJ returned to the game to perpetually miss the playoffs and pad stats for a fifth-place trophy after scoring +30k points.

What place did Lebron's team get? And again I ask who was MJ's Anthony Davis?

You're kind of making the point MJ's Wizard run was for nostalgia only that wasn't a serious team to contend for a title he did it because he loves basketball and because I'm sure every day someone would ask him when he's coming back. Let's kill him for it.

His run with the Wizards wasn't nostalgia or due to the love of the game; it was to pad stats. If the standard is GOAT, don't subjectively downplay MJ's shortcomings. Apply the same MJ/LeBron standard where all context and excuse are ignored. Aside from MJ's 6 of 8, during his peak, he failed consistently despite the game-changing rules for him to succeed. MJ didn't have the same sustained excellence as Lebron,and that's a fact.

[ChipotleWest]

The Bulls win totals in 85 and 86 wouldn't have been enough to get to the postseason in 2005 and 2006 in the East.

That's the point who cares, Jordan and Lebron had bad teams and were young. Jordan had multiple teammates leave the team who were on cocaine. Just because you're a great player does not mean you're just going to carry a team to a championship especially when you're young, in fact that's never happened in the history of the NBA. The only great players under 25 to win a ring were drafted by a team that already had a top 50 player of all time. So this idea that Jordan should have won when he was young is absurd because literally no one has done it without help.

All I did was answer your question. Plus, there is no 63pt game that MJ gets much praise for considering the Bulls 30 wins in 1986 wouldn't be making any postseason after that point.

I know some of you are just obsessed with 80's Jordan and Wizards Jordan because you got very little to complain about 90's Jordan.

[OdomFan]

Doesn't matter how many games. its still similar outcome.

Of course it matters. Only those in denial would think otherwise. If MJ hadn't walked away twice he would've never been playing in 2002 to begin with.

The first time he left his father had been murdered. It's not right to judge him for that if Lebron had went through that he might have left basketball too. Second time the Bulls were getting rid of Phil and he did it on principle. Could he have just gone to another team instead sure, but for whatever reason that wasn't his mindset at the time.

exactly, and there's nothing wrong with that. Heck. Michael could have just communicated with Phil and went over to another team with his former Bulls coach, but I think he wanted their legacies to remain right there in Chicago. He and the Bulls GM Jerry didn't share the opinion of keeping the band together. So he chose what he felt was best for him. Retirement. No Bulls fan complained back then because he had just completed leading that team to yet another f'n 3 peat.

None of us has any idea how long MJ may or may not have played if they'd kept that squad together instead of the second retirement happening.

[ChipotleWest]

As a reminder, MJ returned to the game to perpetually miss the playoffs and pad stats for a fifth-place trophy after scoring +30k points.

What place did Lebron's team get? And again I ask who was MJ's Anthony Davis?

You're kind of making the point MJ's Wizard run was for nostalgia only that wasn't a serious team to contend for a title he did it because he loves basketball and because I'm sure every day someone would ask him when he's coming back. Let's kill him for it.

His run with the Wizards wasn't nostalgia or due to the love of the game; it was to pad stats. If the standard is GOAT, don't subjectively downplay MJ's shortcomings. Apply the same MJ/LeBron standard where all context and excuse are ignored. Aside from MJ's 6 of 8, during his peak, he failed consistently despite the game-changing rules for him to succeed. MJ didn't have the same sustained excellence as Lebron,and that's a fact.

Lebron is leading his teams to the play ins. Stop acting like he's getting the #1 seeds and he's winning rings he's not. If Jordan had an Anthony Davis with the Wizards he could have made the 8th seed. You can't answer who his teammate was that was comparable because there wasn't one. There wasn't even an Austin Reeves. Jordan has more rings than Lebron but people like you wanted him to win every single season of his career it's like he's already got more rings than Lebron but you hone in every single season he didn't win a ring and complain about it. Where's all of Lebron's rings then? Don't tell me he didn't have the teams.

[infinite11285]

What place did Lebron's team get? And again I ask who was MJ's Anthony Davis?

You're kind of making the point MJ's Wizard run was for nostalgia only that wasn't a serious team to contend for a title he did it because he loves basketball and because I'm sure every day someone would ask him when he's coming back. Let's kill him for it.

His run with the Wizards wasn't nostalgia or due to the love of the game; it was to pad stats. If the standard is GOAT, don't subjectively downplay MJ's shortcomings. Apply the same MJ/LeBron standard where all context and excuse are ignored. Aside from MJ's 6 of 8, during his peak, he failed consistently despite the game-changing rules for him to succeed. MJ didn't have the same sustained excellence as Lebron, and that's a fact.

Lebron is leading his teams to the play ins. Stop acting like he's getting the #1 seeds and he's winning rings he's not. If Jordan had an Anthony Davis with the Wizards he could have made the 8th seed. You can't answer who his teammate was that was comparable because there wasn't one. There wasn't even an Austin Reeves. Jordan has more rings than Lebron but haters like you wanted him to win every single season of his career it's like he's almost got more rings than Lebron but you hone in every single season he didn't win a ring and complain about it. Where's all of Lebron's rings then? Don't tell me he didn't have the teams.

Again, compare the two objectively at 39. You're too wrapped up in your feelings.

I never stated that LeBron was playing for rings, or MJ, but I did state that one player is better than the other at the same age. Also, unlike MJ, one player is playing for something greater than missing the playoffs.

[Iwasawitness]

Doesn't matter how many games. its still similar outcome.

Of course it matters. Only those in denial would think otherwise. If MJ hadn't walked away twice he would've never been playing in 2002 to begin with.

The first time he left his father had been murdered. It's not right to judge him for that if Lebron had went through that he might have left basketball too. Second time the Bulls were getting rid of Phil and he did it on principle. Could he have just gone to another team instead sure, but for whatever reason that wasn't his mindset at the time.

Let's stop going back to "Jordan's dad got murdered so that's why". MJ himself confirmed multiple times now that he had most likely would have retired even if his father was still alive.

[Patches Perry]

The problem with LeBron haters is they think they're some harsh-but-fair critic holding LeBron accountable for his performance, but in reality they are holding LeBron accountable for everything but his performance.