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Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:32 pm
by OkcSinceSGA
Iverson modernized the crossover arguably. It was a carry half of the time he did it. This play I’ll post from Kyrie is very common for him too, and he’s considered by many to be the best “balls handler” of all time. It’s an incredibly egregious non call IMO. It made me wonder if guys are actually better with handles today, or is it more that refs have stopped actually calling palming or carrying?
If it’s a rule enforcement thing is it formally no longer a thing? Or they just don’t care anymore? You watch guys like Jerry West handle and it looks kinda boring, but it was playing within the rules that were enforced.
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:36 pm
by ItsDanger
I'd say worse overall, the lax rules enforcement certainly makes it easier. Defenses aren't pressuring the ball nearly as much also.
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:41 pm
by Yoshun
At the top, I don't think ball handling is better. The top ball handlers from the 80s/90s can definitely match today's. I also don't think players today get away with more.
I do think there are more players who can handle the ball effectively though. Most teams today have multiple guys who are effective ball handlers.
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:47 pm
by Tim_Hardawayy
I think a little of column A, a little of column B. Best players will always try to push the rules.
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:48 pm
by Alatan
Ballhandling rules have been significantly relaxed but i think its for the better. Robotic dribbling of the past is ugly, boring and limits driving possibilities.
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:54 pm
by Prince187
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:58 pm
by OkcSinceSGA
Prince187 wrote:viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2371082
I missed that being off the forum for 8 months or whatever until yesterday. Thanks for sharing, I’ll read through it.
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 7:58 pm
by DOT
Yes.
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:03 pm
by Johnny Bball
Every dribble is a carry compared to the original rule.
Section II—Dribble
A player shall not run with the ball without dribbling it.
A player in control of a dribble who steps on or outside a boundary line, even though not touching the ball while on or outside that boundary line, shall not be allowed to return inbounds and continue his dribble. He may not even be the first player to touch the ball after he has re-established a position inbounds.
A player may not dribble a second time after he has voluntarily ended his first dribble.
A player who is dribbling may not put any part of his hand under the ball and (1) carry it from one point to another or (2) bring it to a pause and then continue to dribble again.
A player may dribble a second time if he lost control of the ball because of:
A field goal attempt at his basket, provided the ball touches the backboard or basket ring
An opponent touching the ball
A pass or fumble which touches his backboard, basket ring or is touched by another player.
PENALTY: Loss of ball. Ball is awarded to the opposing team on the sideline nearest the spot of the violation but no nearer the baseline than the foul line extended.
Under is basically the south pole at this point, as opposed to under the equator. Pause? I think the ignore this more than they would admit.
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:04 pm
by Harry Garris
Why not both?
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:12 pm
by Johnny Bball
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:12 pm
by GusFring
And1 era was obsessed with ball handling flash, other than kyrie I'm not sure ball handling is more elite now than in the past.
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:31 pm
by OkcSinceSGA
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 8:36 pm
by G35
Yes, I remember you did any kind of hesitation move with the ball it was a violation. You were taught that your hand could not be on the side of the ball...of course you tried to get away with as much as you could, but nowadays, it is a different type of dribbling and it gives a huge advantage to the offensive player by making the defender think you are going to pull up or pass the ball.....
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:09 pm
by dolphinatik
So... the example is one of the best ball handlers in history in super slow motion? Yes players have better handles now, more drills and more dedication to training. Overall athleticism is up and more balanced than previous generations where u had athletic players but few and far between. Those players would still be good in todays game AI, Tim Hardaway etc.
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:23 pm
by Hornet Mania
It's both. The average player, especially big men, are better ball handlers than they have been in the past.
The NBA has also unofficially decided not to call most carries unless they're extremely egregious. It's clearly a business decision to embrace the flash rather than restrain it.
It's obviously a carry, but the instances like the Kyrie example above aren't actually the ones that send me up a wall. I get irritated at how often the refs don't bother to call carries in the backcourt. Refs have seemingly given up on enforcing the rule in low-stakes instances like that. Guys will just catch the inbounds without a defender in sight and take a short stroll before dribbling without any consequences. I love him, but Kemba was one of the worst offenders in those situations.
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:25 pm
by xAIRNESSx
Both
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:28 pm
by reload141
Have you seen Jaylen Brown dribbling the ball with his left hand?
Oof.
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:28 pm
by rapstarter
Both. The plumbers had zero leeway.
Re: Are players actually better ball handlers today? Or are they getting away with a carry?
Posted: Tue Apr 23, 2024 9:43 pm
by meekrab
Obviously, but if you didn't let seven foot tall dudes carry the ball they'd get it stolen the minute they tried to drive from the simple physics of how long a dribble has to last.